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Would our cusa adds move early?
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ESE84 Online
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Post: #101
RE: Would our cusa adds move early?
(06-16-2022 07:42 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(06-16-2022 07:19 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  Interesting read from the Houston Chronicle on the official Rice move, starting with it is written by Joe Duarte who is usually writing about the Cougars. Full distributions for new members in two years? Plans (finally!) for the football stadium in September?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-s...244025.php

I have heard that they were trying to get the new members up to equal shares before the end of the contract.

My only guess(and it's a complete guess) is that $7m was the average rate the original schools were getting over the life of the contract, with an escalation model that probably started at something like 4m and ended at 10m(again totally back of the napkin). If the AAC teams started at 4m, and are now at 5m, then all the escalation is still ahead of them. I think the conference could potentially lock the AAC teams in at a flat 7m, then allocate what would be their future escalations to the CUSA teams to eventually make them whole.

And yes, if that (again COMPLETE guess) math is what's happening, then we're all getting a haircut without saying we're getting a haircut(would be making 10m at the end of the contract, but holding at 7m all the way through).

Also possible that exit fees will be used to pad some of this, even though Aresco said the other day that they might help with CUSA teams' exit fees. That should grind some gears.

This sounds reasonable. And then the existing program share the exit fees paid by UH, UCF and UC, which makes up for the lost escalation.

I like Aresco already.
06-16-2022 12:21 PM
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maccoog Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Would our cusa adds move early?
(04-07-2022 07:55 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 07:18 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I want Houston to have to play in the AAC at the same time the CUSA6 are in the AAC. The same Houston fans who praised Aresco for this CUSA6 move will change their tune and lose their sh!t if they have to play a season or two in a conference with UNT, UTSA, FAU etc.

1st) not 1 Houston fan praised the cusa 6 move.. that was never a thing...there has only been "the conference will be fine despite the move".. against some bad hot takes that the league is doomed or worse than the sunbelt in football

2nd) disagree ..houston fans are greedy, not defeatist... we want to be in the best conference possible but make the bets of whatever situation we are in

im not sure if you remember but a week before we were invited into the big 12, there was a massive rumor that we had been eliminated from the big 12 consideration (that they hate fertitta)..it wasnt the end of the world in houston places .. we just thought we'd get all the g5 playoff spots (after it expanded) and keep making the tournament with samspon

IMO the distinct difference is we are currently good at almost every revenue sport.. we (As a collective) are egotistical in the sense that we wouldn't believe we'd be associated with the rest of the league and would just be the gonzaga/clemson of the aac.. if we were having down years and think the we'd be mixed in, maybe it be different viewed different

go to the houston forum, we all think the aac is will be horrendous next year .in basketball, that opinion wouldnt change wit the new members, we dont care. we are worried about preparing the roster than can win a national title

and we regularly play most of the c-usa 6 in football.. we have utsa and rice in a few months

A couple of things that would make Houston's attitude about being left out of the Big 12 unique to Houston.

1. There would still be hope about eventually getting a Pac 12 invite. Nothing certain but at least something to hope for.

2. Houston could look to join a league with Boise St in hopes of guaranteeing the G5 New Year 6 bowl invite every year. Be that the MW or having them come to the AAC.

That being said, we'd be pretty bummed like some here are currently. To say we wouldn't care is not the majority opinion.
06-16-2022 03:34 PM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Would our cusa adds move early?
(06-16-2022 03:34 PM)maccoog Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 07:55 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(04-07-2022 07:18 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I want Houston to have to play in the AAC at the same time the CUSA6 are in the AAC. The same Houston fans who praised Aresco for this CUSA6 move will change their tune and lose their sh!t if they have to play a season or two in a conference with UNT, UTSA, FAU etc.

1st) not 1 Houston fan praised the cusa 6 move.. that was never a thing...there has only been "the conference will be fine despite the move".. against some bad hot takes that the league is doomed or worse than the sunbelt in football

2nd) disagree ..houston fans are greedy, not defeatist... we want to be in the best conference possible but make the bets of whatever situation we are in

im not sure if you remember but a week before we were invited into the big 12, there was a massive rumor that we had been eliminated from the big 12 consideration (that they hate fertitta)..it wasnt the end of the world in houston places .. we just thought we'd get all the g5 playoff spots (after it expanded) and keep making the tournament with samspon

IMO the distinct difference is we are currently good at almost every revenue sport.. we (As a collective) are egotistical in the sense that we wouldn't believe we'd be associated with the rest of the league and would just be the gonzaga/clemson of the aac.. if we were having down years and think the we'd be mixed in, maybe it be different viewed different

go to the houston forum, we all think the aac is will be horrendous next year .in basketball, that opinion wouldnt change wit the new members, we dont care. we are worried about preparing the roster than can win a national title

and we regularly play most of the c-usa 6 in football.. we have utsa and rice in a few months

A couple of things that would make Houston's attitude about being left out of the Big 12 unique to Houston.

1. There would still be hope about eventually getting a Pac 12 invite. Nothing certain but at least something to hope for.

2. Houston could look to join a league with Boise St in hopes of guaranteeing the G5 New Year 6 bowl invite every year. Be that the MW or having them come to the AAC.

That being said, we'd be pretty bummed like some here are currently. To say we wouldn't care is not the majority opinion.

my point wasn't that "we wouldn't care".. but that we aren't defeatist
because some posters are acting like it's the end of relevance for their programs

like i noted we are "greedy" and want the best thing possible ... so we'd be bummed we didn't get the best thing possible .. im noting it wouldn't be seen as the end of the {sports} world like some ecu posters are doing
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2022 03:58 PM by pesik.)
06-16-2022 03:57 PM
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Post: #104
RE: Would our cusa adds move early?
(06-16-2022 07:42 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(06-16-2022 07:19 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  Interesting read from the Houston Chronicle on the official Rice move, starting with it is written by Joe Duarte who is usually writing about the Cougars. Full distributions for new members in two years? Plans (finally!) for the football stadium in September?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-s...244025.php

I have heard that they were trying to get the new members up to equal shares before the end of the contract.

My only guess(and it's a complete guess) is that $7m was the average rate the original schools were getting over the life of the contract, with an escalation model that probably started at something like 4m and ended at 10m(again totally back of the napkin). If the AAC teams started at 4m, and are now at 5m, then all the escalation is still ahead of them. I think the conference could potentially lock the AAC teams in at a flat 7m, then allocate what would be their future escalations to the CUSA teams to eventually make them whole.

And yes, if that (again COMPLETE guess) math is what's happening, then we're all getting a haircut without saying we're getting a haircut(would be making 10m at the end of the contract, but holding at 7m all the way through).

Also possible that exit fees will be used to pad some of this, even though Aresco said the other day that they might help with CUSA teams' exit fees. That should grind some gears.

I have not heard that this is under specific consideration (I'm not an "insider" in any way).
But I HAVE looked at these numbers, here on this board.

ONE guess at a 5% escalation came from a Forbes reporter.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian...9412267dc9

He had a table out to '24-'25, which I then carried out to full extent of a 12-year $1 BILLION deal:
20-21 $63M
21-22 $66M
22-23 $69M
23-24 $72M
24-25 $76M
25-26 $80
26-27 $84
27-28 $88
28-29 $93
20-30 $97
30-31 $102
31-32 $107

First note -- we're already inaccurate, ha ha ha. Most will recall that the recently released '20-'21 media revenue was $52.16, so we're missing $10 million (or as I like to call it "one Sun Belt"). Potential discrepancy could be a small UConn decrement, decreased inventory provided in COVID impacted 2020 football season (as well as other Olympics), early "payback" of the 2019-20 year $20 million "signing bonus" rather than spreading that over all 12 years. Maybe it is a larger escalator than 5% meaning smaller at start, bigger at back end. 2021-2022 numbers may reveal more, but let's just press on with this experiment.

Let's start with the IRS-level-real $52.16 million "Full shares" were $4.74 million (counting Navy and Wichita as one "full share" for the media $, if not for the CFP vs NCAA MBB tourney credits), which would make newbie "half shares" $2.37 million. That equates to Pete Thamel's reporting.
Finishing at $107 million would make "full shares" $9.72 million and "half shares" $4.86 million

That's still good for everyone, with the AAC newbies making more off of primary media rights than legacy mwc teams (other than Boise) over the current mwc deal. But it's a bigger gap between old and new than at the beginning.

Look at that finish divided evenly though: $7.64 million dollars for each of 14 teams. Hmmm...
One has to assume there is nothing magical or at least psychological about the $7 million average over 12 years...obtw, $1B divided by 12 years divided by 12 teams was $6.94 million average at the outset 3 years ago, anyway...

If we target equity at $7.64 million at the finish line...a 1/11th "full share" gets there halfway through, with the 2026-27 $84 million. (Passes the common sense check for a linear progression and how a mathematical mean works.) Freeze there for the legacy, push all the escalator increases to the newer six and you can get there.
Using the numbers from Ozanian's Forbes article, then extrapolated, that average for the eight legacy teams is still $6.9 million per year WITH getting to equity. The six new teams should average around $5 million per year over the contract.

(If I assume Ozanian's numbers need to come down if there were a REAL decrement after UConn's departure, I still get a $6.5 million aav for eight legacy teams and $4.5 million aav for the six new teams. Hmmm, in that case, each of the eight lose $4.8 million total over the deal, as the price for losing UC, UH, and UCF to the Big12. And each gets $6.75 million as 1/8th of exit fees.)

Maybe that 2031-32 equity isn't the goal. Maybe a freeze for six years is not palatable to the eight legacy members. If so, the WORST case for the new members is a $3.5 million aav, moving from $2.37 million to $4.86 million.

edited to add: I continued playing with the numbers.
Taking out a full 1/12th of the original total deal for UConn, with the same 5% escalator, the discrepancy between the actual 20-21 media revenue and the predicted 20-21 million is just under $1.47 million - possibly the signing bonus payback? Well, that comes short of the $20 million signing bonus applied evenly each year, and above the $20 million assigning a 5% escalator to that. Even trying to backfit to find a smaller UConn decrement that creates a '20-'21 discrepancy which accounts for the signing bonus over 12 years (either even payback amounts or payback with escalator) would then be off because the declared media revenue isn't JUST the primary media rights deal: Navy tier, CBS for handful of basketball games, ESPN radio and maybe other nickels and dimes.
If we want to go worst case - we lost a full 1/12th with UConn's departure, and the larger payback each year:
2023-24 total is $64.97 million. Full share = $5.91million and half share = $2.95 million
Final year total is $95.98 million. Full share = $8.726 million and half share = $4.363 million
If that's the final year total, reaching full equity in that year would be $6.856 million for each of fourteen teams.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2022 06:31 PM by slhNavy91.)
06-16-2022 04:31 PM
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CoastalJuan Online
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Post: #105
RE: Would our cusa adds move early?
(06-16-2022 04:31 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(06-16-2022 07:42 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(06-16-2022 07:19 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  Interesting read from the Houston Chronicle on the official Rice move, starting with it is written by Joe Duarte who is usually writing about the Cougars. Full distributions for new members in two years? Plans (finally!) for the football stadium in September?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-s...244025.php

I have heard that they were trying to get the new members up to equal shares before the end of the contract.

My only guess(and it's a complete guess) is that $7m was the average rate the original schools were getting over the life of the contract, with an escalation model that probably started at something like 4m and ended at 10m(again totally back of the napkin). If the AAC teams started at 4m, and are now at 5m, then all the escalation is still ahead of them. I think the conference could potentially lock the AAC teams in at a flat 7m, then allocate what would be their future escalations to the CUSA teams to eventually make them whole.

And yes, if that (again COMPLETE guess) math is what's happening, then we're all getting a haircut without saying we're getting a haircut(would be making 10m at the end of the contract, but holding at 7m all the way through).

Also possible that exit fees will be used to pad some of this, even though Aresco said the other day that they might help with CUSA teams' exit fees. That should grind some gears.

I have not heard that this is under specific consideration (I'm not an "insider" in any way).
But I HAVE looked at these numbers, here on this board.

ONE guess at a 5% escalation came from a Forbes reporter.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian...9412267dc9

He had a table out to '24-'25, which I then carried out to full extent of a 12-year $1 BILLION deal:
20-21 $63M
21-22 $66M
22-23 $69M
23-24 $72M
24-25 $76M
25-26 $80
26-27 $84
27-28 $88
28-29 $93
20-30 $97
30-31 $102
31-32 $107

First note -- we're already inaccurate, ha ha ha. Most will recall that the recently released '20-'21 media revenue was $52.16, so we're missing $10 million (or as I like to call it "one Sun Belt"). Potential discrepancy could be a small UConn decrement, decreased inventory provided in COVID impacted 2020 football season (as well as other Olympics), early "payback" of the 2019-20 year $20 million "signing bonus" rather than spreading that over all 12 years. Maybe it is a larger escalator than 5% meaning smaller at start, bigger at back end. 2021-2022 numbers may reveal more, but let's just press on with this experiment.

Let's start with the IRS-level-real $52.16 million "Full shares" were $4.74 million (counting Navy and Wichita as one "full share" for the media $, if not for the CFP vs NCAA MBB tourney credits), which would make newbie "half shares" $2.37 million. That equates to Pete Thamel's reporting.
Finishing at $107 million would make "full shares" $9.72 million and "half shares" $4.86 million

That's still good for everyone, with the AAC newbies making more off of primary media rights than legacy mwc teams (other than Boise) over the current mwc deal. But it's a bigger gap between old and new than at the beginning.

Look at that finish divided evenly though: $7.64 million dollars for each of 14 teams. Hmmm...
One has to assume there is nothing magical or at least psychological about the $7 million average over 12 years...obtw, $1B divided by 12 years divided by 12 teams was $6.94 million average at the outset 3 years ago, anyway...

If we target equity at $7.64 million at the finish line...a 1/11th "full share" gets there halfway through, with the 2026-27 $84 million. (Passes the common sense check for a linear progression and how a mathematical mean works.) Freeze there for the legacy, push all the escalator increases to the newer six and you can get there.
Using the numbers from Ozanian's Forbes article, then extrapolated, that average for the eight legacy teams is still $6.9 million per year WITH getting to equity. The six new teams should average around $5 million per year over the contract.


(If I assume Ozanian's numbers need to come down if there were a REAL decrement after UConn's departure, I still get a $6.5 million aav for eight legacy teams and $4.5 million aav for the six new teams. Hmmm, in that case, each of the eight lose $4.8 million total over the deal, as the price for losing UC, UH, and UCF to the Big12. And each gets $6.75 million as 1/8th of exit fees.)

Maybe that 2031-32 equity isn't the goal. Maybe a freeze for six years is not palatable to the eight legacy members. If so, the WORST case for the new members is a $3.5 million aav, moving from $2.37 million to $4.86 million.

edited to add: I continued playing with the numbers.
Taking out a full 1/12th of the original total deal for UConn, with the same 5% escalator, the discrepancy between the actual 20-21 media revenue and the predicted 20-21 million is just under $1.47 million - possibly the signing bonus payback? Well, that comes short of the $20 million signing bonus applied evenly each year, and above the $20 million assigning a 5% escalator to that. Even trying to backfit to find a smaller UConn decrement that creates a '20-'21 discrepancy which accounts for the signing bonus over 12 years (either even payback amounts or payback with escalator) would then be off because the declared media revenue isn't JUST the primary media rights deal: Navy tier, CBS for handful of basketball games, ESPN radio and maybe other nickels and dimes.
If we want to go worst case - we lost a full 1/12th with UConn's departure, and the larger payback each year:
2023-24 total is $64.97 million. Full share = $5.91million and half share = $2.95 million
Final year total is $95.98 million. Full share = $8.726 million and half share = $4.363 million
If that's the final year total, reaching full equity in that year would be $6.856 million for each of fourteen teams.

Have to think that we likely didn't receive full contract payouts for '20-'21. Also don't know if they took a full share for UConn.

The part in bold was my guess on how things would work. Publicly stating that we're not taking a pay cut from the original 7m per year (old average) when we actually are when it's all averaged out.

The last wild card is the ~50m in exit fees. That either goes into reserves(something they probably think would be helpful to have after the COVID ordeal), paying new team exit fees as Aresco alluded to, or (in this case) supplementing some of the escalation potentially lost...not that it would go very far over 9 years.
06-16-2022 07:46 PM
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