(05-24-2022 07:26 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:24 PM)UNCWin Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 06:48 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Dang thats rough.

Money issue?

https://uncwsports.com/news/2022/5/24/no...-post.aspx

Says she wants "to pursue other interests following a decade at the helm of the softball program". Not exactly sure what that means, but at least wanted to see how we would do next year.

She ends her career at UNCW with a mediocre 217-250-1 record, so maybe she had already made her decision before this season started?

Edit: She also ends her career with the Lady Seahawks with a 66-107 CAA record

She had a phenomenal season this year, but that’s NOT a mediocre overall record. That’s a losing record.

I wish her the best in whatever interest she’s pursuing, and hopefully we find a good replacement that can sustain the success we saw this year. The softball team deserves that.


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Yeah, I probably should've used the adjective "subpar" instead, and maybe even that is a little too generous lol

(05-24-2022 07:28 PM)UNCWin Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:26 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:24 PM)UNCWin Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 06:48 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Dang thats rough.

Money issue?

https://uncwsports.com/news/2022/5/24/no...-post.aspx

Says she wants "to pursue other interests following a decade at the helm of the softball program". Not exactly sure what that means, but at least wanted to see how we would do next year.

She ends her career at UNCW with a mediocre 217-250-1 record, so maybe she had already made her decision before this season started?

Edit: She also ends her career with the Lady Seahawks with a 66-107 CAA record

She had a phenomenal season this year, but that’s NOT a mediocre overall record. That’s a losing record.

I wish her the best in whatever interest she’s pursuing, and hopefully we find a good replacement that can sustain the success we saw this year. The softball team deserves that.


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Yeah, I probably should've used the adjective "subpar" instead, and maybe even that is a little too generous lol

You are severely discounting that a lot of those losses were early on when she was essentially building the program from scratch after it was about scrapped. If you eliminate the first three seasons form her record she's over .500

(05-24-2022 07:32 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:28 PM)UNCWin Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:26 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:24 PM)UNCWin Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 06:48 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Dang thats rough.

Money issue?

https://uncwsports.com/news/2022/5/24/no...-post.aspx

Says she wants "to pursue other interests following a decade at the helm of the softball program". Not exactly sure what that means, but at least wanted to see how we would do next year.

She ends her career at UNCW with a mediocre 217-250-1 record, so maybe she had already made her decision before this season started?

Edit: She also ends her career with the Lady Seahawks with a 66-107 CAA record

She had a phenomenal season this year, but that’s NOT a mediocre overall record. That’s a losing record.

I wish her the best in whatever interest she’s pursuing, and hopefully we find a good replacement that can sustain the success we saw this year. The softball team deserves that.


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Yeah, I probably should've used the adjective "subpar" instead, and maybe even that is a little too generous lol

You are severely discounting that a lot of those losses were early on when she was essentially building the program from scratch after it was about scrapped. If you eliminate the first three seasons form her record she's over .500

She did well building the program to what it became this year, I give her credit for that. However, a record is a record.


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(05-24-2022 07:44 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  She did well building the program to what it became this year, I give her credit for that. However, a record is a record.

I'm loathe to agree with Hoops on this one, but he's right. Context matters, and you have to compare her record to what prior coaches had done at the program.

We've had 4 HC's in program history (1985-present):

* Maggie St. Ledger (17 seasons): 387-528-1 (.422)
* Melissa Jarrell (7 seasons): 149-250-1 (.373)
* Kelly Van Houten (4 seasons): 43-163 (.209)
* Kristy Norton (10 seasons): 217-250-1 (.464)

That's marked improvement over all her predecessors, at a program that had been only headed in the wrong direction after St. Ledger's departure (and wasn't all that good when she was here, either).

The UNCW softball program is in a great position to expand upon recent success. With the facilities we have, the education we offer and our location, there is no reason we can't build from here and exceed what we've done in the past.

Are we willing to invest in coaching?

Total speculation but it feels Iike a money issue, i.e. not getting a Big enough raise after a major accomplishment

(05-24-2022 10:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Are we willing to invest in coaching?

Total speculation but it feels Iike a money issue, i.e. not getting a Big enough raise after a major accomplishment

Was she in a contract year? Was she offered a raise?


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(05-24-2022 08:49 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:44 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  She did well building the program to what it became this year, I give her credit for that. However, a record is a record.

I'm loathe to agree with Hoops on this one, but he's right. Context matters, and you have to compare her record to what prior coaches had done at the program.

We've had 4 HC's in program history (1985-present):

* Maggie St. Ledger (17 seasons): 387-528-1 (.422)
* Melissa Jarrell (7 seasons): 149-250-1 (.373)
* Kelly Van Houten (4 seasons): 43-163 (.209)
* Kristy Norton (10 seasons): 217-250-1 (.464)

That's marked improvement over all her predecessors, at a program that had been only headed in the wrong direction after St. Ledger's departure (and wasn't all that good when she was here, either).

I agree she was absolutely more successful than all of her predecessors but that doesn’t change the actual win/loss column.


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(05-24-2022 11:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 10:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Are we willing to invest in coaching?

Total speculation but it feels Iike a money issue, i.e. not getting a Big enough raise after a major accomplishment

Was she in a contract year? Was she offered a raise?


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Do mid major softball coaches have guaranteed contracts? I doubt it.

Again PURE SPECULATION, but it feels like they were off on money.
My gut is the raise she was expecting wasn't matching what she being offered.
Not being a contract employee, she has the complete right to look elsewhere as she chooses.
It's very unfortunate and I doubt its what anyone wanted as the outcome

(05-24-2022 11:48 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 08:49 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(05-24-2022 07:44 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  She did well building the program to what it became this year, I give her credit for that. However, a record is a record.

I'm loathe to agree with Hoops on this one, but he's right. Context matters, and you have to compare her record to what prior coaches had done at the program.

We've had 4 HC's in program history (1985-present):

* Maggie St. Ledger (17 seasons): 387-528-1 (.422)
* Melissa Jarrell (7 seasons): 149-250-1 (.373)
* Kelly Van Houten (4 seasons): 43-163 (.209)
* Kristy Norton (10 seasons): 217-250-1 (.464)

That's marked improvement over all her predecessors, at a program that had been only headed in the wrong direction after St. Ledger's departure (and wasn't all that good when she was here, either).

I agree she was absolutely more successful than all of her predecessors but that doesn’t change the actual win/loss column.


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Don't look at everything as black or white. You can't simply look at her record and use that to confirm that she was a "subpar" coach. She had the program headed in the right direction and has two stud freshman. Is she a better coach now than she was 10 years ago? I don't know, but it seems pretty obvious that we're now in a really dangerous position with a program that has never been able to gain traction. This is an opportunity lost.

She and her family pretty much built all those nice facilities that we now have so I would certainly give her a big thank you. I imagine that money was a big factor in her leaving but that is speculation.

Did she get another coaching job?

(05-25-2022 09:46 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  Did she get another coaching job?

Doesn't sound like it, at least not yet

If money is indeed a factor, I can't imagine just quitting and NOT having an income would be a better option?

So, looking at it logically there, if she's not hired soon somewhere else it seems like it would have been something else pulling her away.

Going back a topic though, I think people are confusing my articulation of the win/loss record for how I view her as a coach. Like many here, I'm not entirely invested in softball. Outside of this year, most of us don't pay much attention to it or discuss it at length. Her win/loss record is what it is. Like I've said in multiple posts now, I think she was a good coach and she had an exceptionally good season this past year. The win/loss numbers don't change though. That is what it is. My initial, factual, and still accurate statement on the matter was, "That's a losing record." It is. All of you are correct though, in saying there's reasons many of those losses are in the column, and as is the same with all sports it's not always just the game that leads to those. We obviously have better facilities, etc and that will likely lead to a better product on the field (hopefully that continues but who knows). She's a solid coach, comes from a solid family, and the university owes them a lot of gratitude for what they've done. It doesn't change the factual stats though, that's all I was saying. Just trying to explain it so people don't get the idea that I'm okay with her departure. From what I now know about the program (which still isn't much) via the posts of 33 and others, it seems she was a solid coach here and comes from a great and generous family.

Don't underestimate the impact on recruiting that came with the really nice, new facilities. And if her family had a hand in building them, I doubt she's going to be hurting for income or another job by leaving. In the end, it's almost always about recruiting. And if the new facilities helped land better recruits than the long term, positive impact of her time here was well worth it, regardless of her record. Even though she's leaving, she's left the program in great shape to build on what was started.

(05-25-2022 05:44 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Don't underestimate the impact on recruiting that came with the really nice, new facilities. And if her family had a hand in building them, I doubt she's going to be hurting for income or another job by leaving. In the end, it's almost always about recruiting. And if the new facilities helped land better recruits than the long term, positive impact of her time here was well worth it, regardless of her record. Even though she's leaving, she's left the program in great shape to build on what was started.

In the same line of thinking, if her family had a hand in funding new facilities would she really up in quit over not getting a large enough raise?


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(05-25-2022 07:23 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 05:44 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Don't underestimate the impact on recruiting that came with the really nice, new facilities. And if her family had a hand in building them, I doubt she's going to be hurting for income or another job by leaving. In the end, it's almost always about recruiting. And if the new facilities helped land better recruits than the long term, positive impact of her time here was well worth it, regardless of her record. Even though she's leaving, she's left the program in great shape to build on what was started.

In the same line of thinking, if her family had a hand in funding new facilities would she really up in quit over not getting a large enough raise?


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That was my point...