(02-18-2022 07:33 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: I see your point 82, really do. The counter is that the Tigers were 9-18 from 3 but Hawks were like 3-19. If we hit the same percentage, we are right there. That’s too simplistic of course because they got overall better looks but we just flat out missed some we should have made.
I do like the attack the hole mentality but they need to weave it or investigate a reversal or 2 to a post feed option first instead of less ball and player movement. If there is a clear path early in clock, drive it but overall we need better team involvement.
Towson had better looks because they passed the ball. We had way too many possessions where we had either one or two guys dribble, try to cross up their defender then shoot. The other four were just standing there watching. You never get or create good looks like that. Never.
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That's what happens when you make Fornes a starter and put White on the bench. Of all teams, Towson is not the team you want to play small ball against. Coaches got credit for a change in strategy and brining Fornes off the bench, they take the hit on this change. There may be some compelling reason White was sent to the bench in favor of Fornes, but that change has been a disaster. It just took a good team to truly expose it.
Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys injury.
Starting White over Fornes obviously didn't cost us the win last night, at least not on its own. Towson was the better team and would have won regardless of who we sent out there. But Fornes' poor play has certainly been a major factor in our performances in the 2nd half of the conference slate.
(02-18-2022 08:46 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote: So how serious is Harvey’s injury? Day to day or most likely out for the year?
My best guess is we won't see him again. Came back to the bench in a boot. Hopefully nothing too bad, but with only a couple of weeks left Id be surprised. Not sure if its the same ankle he injured earlier in the year or not.
(02-18-2022 07:33 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: I see your point 82, really do. The counter is that the Tigers were 9-18 from 3 but Hawks were like 3-19. If we hit the same percentage, we are right there. That’s too simplistic of course because they got overall better looks but we just flat out missed some we should have made.
I do like the attack the hole mentality but they need to weave it or investigate a reversal or 2 to a post feed option first instead of less ball and player movement. If there is a clear path early in clock, drive it but overall we need better team involvement.
Towson had better looks because they passed the ball. We had way too many possessions where we had either one or two guys dribble, try to cross up their defender then shoot. The other four were just standing there watching. You never get or create good looks like that. Never.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
That's what happens when you make Fornes a starter and put White on the bench. Of all teams, Towson is not the team you want to play small ball against. Coaches got credit for a change in strategy and brining Fornes off the bench, they take the hit on this change. There may be some compelling reason White was sent to the bench in favor of Fornes, but that change has been a disaster. It just took a good team to truly expose it.
Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys inju dudery.
It isn't about minutes, it's about production. Fornes played quite a bit off the bench because he was productive. Don't forget, he was a starter at the beginning of the year and went to the bench because he wasn't productive. Not surprisingly, his numbers as a starter now look a lot like his numbers when he was a starter at the beginning of the year. It doesn't really matter why, and I have my opinion, but there was no reason to change a successful rotation with White starting and Fornes off the bench, but we did, and it has been a disaster. And from the first game the change was made I predicted it would be a mistake and they it made no sense. You have to go with what brought you success, and that was a significant change.
Yes, he played quite a bit in the Towson game, but he played those minutes because he was playing well. No reason to take someone out who is in their groove. But he hasn't been in his groove since he returned as a starter. Not even close. It was a bad move from the start, it didn't make sense, and it has very predictably turned out bad.
So now what? Look at the position the coaches have put themselves in. Are they going to reverse course and tell Fornes he has lost his spot as a starter AGAIN? Are they going to ride or die on Fornes as a starter so they don't have to make that decision regardless of how poorly he is playing as a starter? We had the perfect rotation and Fornes was making a case as best sixth man in the CAA and he was incredibly productive. It was a bad move and it needs to be corrected. And the injury to Harvey makes this even worse.
(02-18-2022 07:33 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: I see your point 82, really do. The counter is that the Tigers were 9-18 from 3 but Hawks were like 3-19. If we hit the same percentage, we are right there. That’s too simplistic of course because they got overall better looks but we just flat out missed some we should have made.
I do like the attack the hole mentality but they need to weave it or investigate a reversal or 2 to a post feed option first instead of less ball and player movement. If there is a clear path early in clock, drive it but overall we need better team involvement.
Towson had better looks because they passed the ball. We had way too many possessions where we had either one or two guys dribble, try to cross up their defender then shoot. The other four were just standing there watching. You never get or create good looks like that. Never.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
That's what happens when you make Fornes a starter and put White on the bench. Of all teams, Towson is not the team you want to play small ball against. Coaches got credit for a change in strategy and brining Fornes off the bench, they take the hit on this change. There may be some compelling reason White was sent to the bench in favor of Fornes, but that change has been a disaster. It just took a good team to truly expose it.
Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys inju dudery.
It isn't about minutes, it's about production. Fornes played quite a bit off the bench because he was productive. Don't forget, he was a starter at the beginning of the year and went to the bench because he wasn't productive. Not surprisingly, his numbers as a starter now look a lot like his numbers when he was a starter at the beginning of the year. It doesn't really matter why, and I have my opinion, but there was no reason to change a successful rotation with White starting and Fornes off the bench, but we did, and it has been a disaster. And from the first game the change was made I predicted it would be a mistake and they it made no sense. You have to go with what brought you success, and that was a significant change.
Yes, he played quite a bit in the Towson game, but he played those minutes because he was playing well. No reason to take someone out who is in their groove. But he hasn't been in his groove since he returned as a starter. Not even close. It was a bad move from the start, it didn't make sense, and it has very predictably turned out bad.
So now what? Look at the position the coaches have put themselves in. Are they going to reverse course and tell Fornes he has lost his spot as a starter AGAIN? Are they going to ride or die on Fornes as a starter so they don't have to make that decision regardless of how poorly he is playing as a starter? We had the perfect rotation and Fornes was making a case as best sixth man in the CAA and he was incredibly productive. It was a bad move and it needs to be corrected. And the injury to Harvey makes this even worse.
I don't think they've backed themselves into a corner in any way. Tre stayed in the starting line-up during the streak basically because....well we were on a streak.I believe Jaylen started the game after the Elon loss, as his productivity earned him thst spot. That being said if after tonight the productivity isn't their for Jaylen , I wouldn't be surprised to see Tre back in the starting line-up in the road games next week.
(02-18-2022 08:46 AM)B_Hawk06 Wrote: Towson had better looks because they passed the ball. We had way too many possessions where we had either one or two guys dribble, try to cross up their defender then shoot. The other four were just standing there watching. You never get or create good looks like that. Never.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
That's what happens when you make Fornes a starter and put White on the bench. Of all teams, Towson is not the team you want to play small ball against. Coaches got credit for a change in strategy and brining Fornes off the bench, they take the hit on this change. There may be some compelling reason White was sent to the bench in favor of Fornes, but that change has been a disaster. It just took a good team to truly expose it.
Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys inju dudery.
It isn't about minutes, it's about production. Fornes played quite a bit off the bench because he was productive. Don't forget, he was a starter at the beginning of the year and went to the bench because he wasn't productive. Not surprisingly, his numbers as a starter now look a lot like his numbers when he was a starter at the beginning of the year. It doesn't really matter why, and I have my opinion, but there was no reason to change a successful rotation with White starting and Fornes off the bench, but we did, and it has been a disaster. And from the first game the change was made I predicted it would be a mistake and they it made no sense. You have to go with what brought you success, and that was a significant change.
Yes, he played quite a bit in the Towson game, but he played those minutes because he was playing well. No reason to take someone out who is in their groove. But he hasn't been in his groove since he returned as a starter. Not even close. It was a bad move from the start, it didn't make sense, and it has very predictably turned out bad.
So now what? Look at the position the coaches have put themselves in. Are they going to reverse course and tell Fornes he has lost his spot as a starter AGAIN? Are they going to ride or die on Fornes as a starter so they don't have to make that decision regardless of how poorly he is playing as a starter? We had the perfect rotation and Fornes was making a case as best sixth man in the CAA and he was incredibly productive. It was a bad move and it needs to be corrected. And the injury to Harvey makes this even worse.
I don't think they've backed themselves into a corner in any way. Tre stayed in the starting line-up during the streak basically because....well we were on a streak.I believe Jaylen started the game after the Elon loss, as his productivity earned him thst spot. That being said if after tonight the productivity isn't their for Jaylen , I wouldn't be surprised to see Tre back in the starting line-up in the road games next week.
Thanks coach.
So, are we to take this as Fornes is about to start again after being 2 for 20 from three over the last three games he’s started in which we are 1-2? Our lone win in that time is against a bad WM team at home in which we had to go to OT to beat them (we also benched Fornes during the OT period).
If a player “earns” being a starter, how could any worse productivity not earn them the bench?
“Tre stayed in the starting lineup during the streak because we were on a streak.” Lmao. Are you serious??? Look at the quality streak of play we’ve been on the last five games. Yet, we’re sticking with Fornes as a starter? Lol come on man.
If this is the level of genius Hackert is bringing to the group, Siddle better find a new offensive assistant coach in the off season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2022 03:46 PM by B_Hawk06.)
Reading this thread, I'd swear we were in last place. Good lord.
Fornes is playing a lot because we're significantly better with him in the lineup -- better at forcing turnovers, better at defending the 3-point line, and overall, much better at producing buckets.
Now, he's obviously had a couple of bad games in a row, but largely, he's taking the same shots he was hitting with great regularity a few weeks back. Several times, he's made some pretty nice baseline drives when his shot isn't falling.
It seems to me that Trazarien was dealing with some sort of injury, starting around the Drexel game. Freshmen can certainly hit the wall at this time of year, but his fall-off was so drastic that it just didn't seem possible. Kid plays hard ALL THE TIME, yet couldn't get a single rebound for several games? Doesn't make any sense beyond an injury.
Fornes needs to keep playing a big role, and if he can knock down open looks, we're going to be fine. It looks like Tra is getting healthy, and that's going to make a huge difference, because his motor means he's going to make an impact on games.
(02-19-2022 04:58 PM)ScribeHawk Wrote: Reading this thread, I'd swear we were in last place. Good lord.
Fornes is playing a lot because we're significantly better with him in the lineup -- better at forcing turnovers, better at defending the 3-point line, and overall, much better at producing buckets.
Now, he's obviously had a couple of bad games in a row, but largely, he's taking the same shots he was hitting with great regularity a few weeks back. Several times, he's made some pretty nice baseline drives when his shot isn't falling.
It seems to me that Trazarien was dealing with some sort of injury, starting around the Drexel game. Freshmen can certainly hit the wall at this time of year, but his fall-off was so drastic that it just didn't seem possible. Kid plays hard ALL THE TIME, yet couldn't get a single rebound for several games? Doesn't make any sense beyond an injury.
Fornes needs to keep playing a big role, and if he can knock down open looks, we're going to be fine. It looks like Tra is getting healthy, and that's going to make a huge difference, because his motor means he's going to make an impact on games.
We’re much better when he’s coming off the bench and not getting starter PT.
I counted three times in the last game when the CBS announcer said our defender had their back to a good three point shooter. That defender? Fornes. Every time.
I’m not buying that we’re a much better team with him playing more than 20 min a game.
Here's the full on/off chart for the Seahawks in CAA play.
On a per-100 possession basis, UNCW is almost 6 points better on offense with Fornes on the court versus on the bench; nearly 13 points better defensively with him in the lineup.
Among the rotation players, it's the most significant impact on team performance.
Obviously, I don't think he's our BEST player, but overall, Fornes is having a winning impact on the team.
(02-19-2022 05:10 PM)ScribeHawk Wrote: Here's the full on/off chart for the Seahawks in CAA play.
On a per-100 possession basis, UNCW is almost 6 points better on offense with Fornes on the court versus on the bench; nearly 13 points better defensively with him in the lineup.
Among the rotation players, it's the most significant impact on team performance.
Obviously, I don't think he's our BEST player, but overall, Fornes is having a winning impact on the team.
I guess for me it boils down to a difference in what’s on paper and what we are watching. Over the last several weeks we are not playing like the team in first place. Our style of play and production looks more like a 8th/9th place team than how we played to get into 1st place.
On paper though, we’re still in 1st place. So. Whatevs. Maybe we shouldn’t change anything. Maybe I’m the crazy one. Maybe those CBS announcers were blind too and just making things up because they don’t like Fornes as a starter either.
Hope he puts up 29 three pointers today. Maybe he’ll make one that isn’t after the refs blow the play dead.
(02-18-2022 04:37 PM)82hawk Wrote: That's what happens when you make Fornes a starter and put White on the bench. Of all teams, Towson is not the team you want to play small ball against. Coaches got credit for a change in strategy and brining Fornes off the bench, they take the hit on this change. There may be some compelling reason White was sent to the bench in favor of Fornes, but that change has been a disaster. It just took a good team to truly expose it.
Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys inju dudery.
It isn't about minutes, it's about production. Fornes played quite a bit off the bench because he was productive. Don't forget, he was a starter at the beginning of the year and went to the bench because he wasn't productive. Not surprisingly, his numbers as a starter now look a lot like his numbers when he was a starter at the beginning of the year. It doesn't really matter why, and I have my opinion, but there was no reason to change a successful rotation with White starting and Fornes off the bench, but we did, and it has been a disaster. And from the first game the change was made I predicted it would be a mistake and they it made no sense. You have to go with what brought you success, and that was a significant change.
Yes, he played quite a bit in the Towson game, but he played those minutes because he was playing well. No reason to take someone out who is in their groove. But he hasn't been in his groove since he returned as a starter. Not even close. It was a bad move from the start, it didn't make sense, and it has very predictably turned out bad.
So now what? Look at the position the coaches have put themselves in. Are they going to reverse course and tell Fornes he has lost his spot as a starter AGAIN? Are they going to ride or die on Fornes as a starter so they don't have to make that decision regardless of how poorly he is playing as a starter? We had the perfect rotation and Fornes was making a case as best sixth man in the CAA and he was incredibly productive. It was a bad move and it needs to be corrected. And the injury to Harvey makes this even worse.
I don't think they've backed themselves into a corner in any way. Tre stayed in the starting line-up during the streak basically because....well we were on a streak.I believe Jaylen started the game after the Elon loss, as his productivity earned him thst spot. That being said if after tonight the productivity isn't their for Jaylen , I wouldn't be surprised to see Tre back in the starting line-up in the road games next week.
Thanks coach.
So, are we to take this as Fornes is about to start again after being 2 for 20 from three over the last three games he’s started in which we are 1-2? Our lone win in that time is against a bad WM team at home in which we had to go to OT to beat them (we also benched Fornes during the OT period).
If a player “earns” being a starter, how could any worse productivity not earn them the bench?
“Tre stayed in the starting lineup during the streak because we were on a streak.” Lmao. Are you serious??? Look at the quality streak of play we’ve been on the last five games. Yet, we’re sticking with Fornes as a starter? Lol come on man.
If this is the level of genius Hackert is bringing to the group, Siddle better find a new offensive assistant coach in the off season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I'd assume being senior night that yes, he will start even though he's a grad student.Appreciate the sarcastic reply though.You insinuating a new assistant after the season we've had so far is very telling....and yes, Tre stayed in the lineup during the streak because theres not a coach in America thats going to change their lineup while winning at that rate. They are every bit as superstitious as baseball players.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2022 06:43 PM by GrayHawk.)
(02-18-2022 08:26 PM)GrayHawk Wrote: Fornes played 38 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and he played 32 minutes last night. White played 18 minutes in our OT win at Towson, and 16 minutes last night. It worked just fine the 1st time in a win, but just something else to critique when you lose. Playing "small" worked the 1st game against them, and wasn't the reason we crapped the bed last night.I will agree, that Fornes seems to be in a funk since being named a starter, and actually thought he brought great energy in a 6th man role. Jaylen was going to get starter minutes regardless of whether he actually starts or not. We need him to get out of the funk he is in currently and I trust he will. White is a freshman, and has been a bit inconsistent as most freshmen are. However, last night I actually thought he was the only player we had playing with an intensity that match Towsons. Hopefully that is a sign of good things to come. We will need them both coming down the stretch, especially given Harveys inju dudery.
It isn't about minutes, it's about production. Fornes played quite a bit off the bench because he was productive. Don't forget, he was a starter at the beginning of the year and went to the bench because he wasn't productive. Not surprisingly, his numbers as a starter now look a lot like his numbers when he was a starter at the beginning of the year. It doesn't really matter why, and I have my opinion, but there was no reason to change a successful rotation with White starting and Fornes off the bench, but we did, and it has been a disaster. And from the first game the change was made I predicted it would be a mistake and they it made no sense. You have to go with what brought you success, and that was a significant change.
Yes, he played quite a bit in the Towson game, but he played those minutes because he was playing well. No reason to take someone out who is in their groove. But he hasn't been in his groove since he returned as a starter. Not even close. It was a bad move from the start, it didn't make sense, and it has very predictably turned out bad.
So now what? Look at the position the coaches have put themselves in. Are they going to reverse course and tell Fornes he has lost his spot as a starter AGAIN? Are they going to ride or die on Fornes as a starter so they don't have to make that decision regardless of how poorly he is playing as a starter? We had the perfect rotation and Fornes was making a case as best sixth man in the CAA and he was incredibly productive. It was a bad move and it needs to be corrected. And the injury to Harvey makes this even worse.
I don't think they've backed themselves into a corner in any way. Tre stayed in the starting line-up during the streak basically because....well we were on a streak.I believe Jaylen started the game after the Elon loss, as his productivity earned him thst spot. That being said if after tonight the productivity isn't their for Jaylen , I wouldn't be surprised to see Tre back in the starting line-up in the road games next week.
Thanks coach.
So, are we to take this as Fornes is about to start again after being 2 for 20 from three over the last three games he’s started in which we are 1-2? Our lone win in that time is against a bad WM team at home in which we had to go to OT to beat them (we also benched Fornes during the OT period).
If a player “earns” being a starter, how could any worse productivity not earn them the bench?
“Tre stayed in the starting lineup during the streak because we were on a streak.” Lmao. Are you serious??? Look at the quality streak of play we’ve been on the last five games. Yet, we’re sticking with Fornes as a starter? Lol come on man.
If this is the level of genius Hackert is bringing to the group, Siddle better find a new offensive assistant coach in the off season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I'd assume being senior night that yes, he will start even though he's a grad student.Appreciate the sarcastic reply though.You insinuating a new assistant after the season we've had so far is very telling.
(02-19-2022 05:10 PM)ScribeHawk Wrote: Here's the full on/off chart for the Seahawks in CAA play.
On a per-100 possession basis, UNCW is almost 6 points better on offense with Fornes on the court versus on the bench; nearly 13 points better defensively with him in the lineup.
Among the rotation players, it's the most significant impact on team performance.
Obviously, I don't think he's our BEST player, but overall, Fornes is having a winning impact on the team.
This is where it's easy to get lost in metrics. When you come off the bench, you are likely rotating in against the bench of the other team as well. That means you are a scoring and defending against bench players as well. So yeah, your numbers are going to look better than the starters. Context matters.
