The starters out scored Houston by 27 points when they were on the court together. They played together for 13 minutes and change.

(02-13-2022 09:35 AM)TigerDBH Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  We won this game in spite of the insane substitution pattern Penny uses. It hurt us in the first half but he limited it in the second half and that won the game.
Penny deserves credit for win and NOT doing that in the second half but, regardless, it’s maddening.

Agreed. I hate the whole line change he does. Last night 15-4 and he pulls all the starters. We're down 2 before the all the starters are back in. Rest guys, bring in role players, etc, but the crazy line changes drives me crazy.

Regardless, he had the team ready for Houston last night. Go Penny! Go Tigers!

Often, It appears that Penny is just addicted to massive and excessive player substitutions. If this is how we are going to roll, I wonder if a platoon system would be better (subbing in five new players each time)?

(02-13-2022 09:42 AM)450bench Wrote:  Everybody had to play regardless. So you had to work to figure out how not to lose games due to subs.

this is spot on what it's looked like most season

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

We would probably be securely in the Big Dance if not for Pennys substitution patterns.

We have 3 or 4 more wins right now if Penny just lets the big dawgs hunt.

(02-13-2022 10:28 AM)450bench Wrote:  The starters out scored Houston by 27 points when they were on the court together. They played together for 13 minutes and change.

Yes

The point being that getting some rest helped them perform better when they were in. Nearly all are arguing that depth is good AND Penny probably needs to play the big dogs a little more

(02-13-2022 10:23 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

I didn’t like the substituting either, when it was happening. However, with Williams and Duren being so foul-prone, perhaps it is better to play them sporadically in the first half, saving their playing time (and fresher legs) for the second-half crunch time. Maybe this is not a bad strategy, after all.

Yesterday's game gave me reason to think that is a possibility. Maybe some of us have been wrong. It still seems random and unorthodox but...

21-6.

(02-13-2022 11:17 AM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

We would probably be securely in the Big Dance if not for Pennys substitution patterns.

We have 3 or 4 more wins right now if Penny just lets the big dawgs hunt.

Agreed.

(02-13-2022 10:12 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:08 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:57 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:51 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:38 AM)450bench Wrote:  Read TigerDBH’s explanation. It’s dead on.

You may feel it is dead on because it fits your narrative but it is not true.

Score was 14-4 when he began to sub

Score was 15-5 when he brought back in Nolley, Duren and Q...He shortly after brought ALO back in after that at 15-7 that is 4 starters back in and Deandre with 2 fouls so not available and we lost 2 points off the lead.

His substitutions changed the flow and momentum of the game at that point. He does it every game.

As I have said before he makes some terrible subs at times...But yesterday wasn't one of those times...

He tried to slowly sub and quickly get his guys back in...He didn't do a line change he subbed 3.

Deandre was brought back in 2 minutes after he went out...30 seconds after that he got his second foul...That is what broke everything.

Even playing the starters the majority of the minutes in the 2nd half we had scored 20 points in the first 15 minutes.

Again, his subbing in the first half during our early run clearly shifted the momentum completely.

Agree to disagree...

What shifted our momentum in the 2nd half when we were up 7 and allowed an 11-0 run

I get it he subs too much, but that's who he is and it looks like he's not gonna change no matter how many people complain. We're just gonna have to deal with it.

(02-13-2022 11:46 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:12 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 10:08 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:57 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:51 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  You may feel it is dead on because it fits your narrative but it is not true.

Score was 14-4 when he began to sub

Score was 15-5 when he brought back in Nolley, Duren and Q...He shortly after brought ALO back in after that at 15-7 that is 4 starters back in and Deandre with 2 fouls so not available and we lost 2 points off the lead.

His substitutions changed the flow and momentum of the game at that point. He does it every game.

As I have said before he makes some terrible subs at times...But yesterday wasn't one of those times...

He tried to slowly sub and quickly get his guys back in...He didn't do a line change he subbed 3.

Deandre was brought back in 2 minutes after he went out...30 seconds after that he got his second foul...That is what broke everything.

Even playing the starters the majority of the minutes in the 2nd half we had scored 20 points in the first 15 minutes.

Again, his subbing in the first half during our early run clearly shifted the momentum completely.

Agree to disagree...

What shifted our momentum in the 2nd half when we were up 7 and allowed an 11-0 run

Two different situations…yes, we’ll just agree to disagree

(02-13-2022 09:31 AM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

That’s certainly the traditional way to do it. What Penny did against a depleted Houston roster was to get his best players rest as long as possible. Then as the game wound down and Houston’s best players started to tire, our rested starters took advantage and dominated the final five minutes of the game.

I’ll admit it’s a risky strategy, but in this game it helped us beat the spread by 20 points.

The key is that he has pretty much done that all season so the reserves are less likely to stumble because they have been allowed to play in the first half of each game. Would Minot have developed if he had not gotten the minutes?

(02-13-2022 12:22 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:31 AM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

That’s certainly the traditional way to do it. What Penny did against a depleted Houston roster was to get his best players rest as long as possible. Then as the game wound down and Houston’s best players started to tire, our rested starters took advantage and dominated the final five minutes of the game.

I’ll admit it’s a risky strategy, but in this game it helped us beat the spread by 20 points.

The key is that he has pretty much done that all season so the reserves are less likely to stumble because they have been allowed to play in the first half of each game. Would Minot have developed if he had not gotten the minutes?

That’s a fair point

(02-13-2022 11:47 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  I get it he subs too much, but that's who he is and it looks like he's not gonna change no matter how many people complain. We're just gonna have to deal with it.

[Drops mic walks off]

(02-13-2022 12:57 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 11:47 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  I get it he subs too much, but that's who he is and it looks like he's not gonna change no matter how many people complain. We're just gonna have to deal with it.

[Drops mic walks off]

Yep

There was no reason for Duren to come out at the beginning of the game. He had 2 dunks and a jump shot. Seems insane to ever take that guy out.

(02-13-2022 12:22 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:31 AM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

That’s certainly the traditional way to do it. What Penny did against a depleted Houston roster was to get his best players rest as long as possible. Then as the game wound down and Houston’s best players started to tire, our rested starters took advantage and dominated the final five minutes of the game.

I’ll admit it’s a risky strategy, but in this game it helped us beat the spread by 20 points.

The key is that he has pretty much done that all season so the reserves are less likely to stumble because they have been allowed to play in the first half of each game. Would Minot have developed if he had not gotten the minutes?

That's a good point.

Okay I get it. Grab the biggest road win in all of college basketball this season, and then people complain about how you did it.

(02-13-2022 12:22 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:31 AM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:47 AM)450bench Wrote:  You sub guys when they need a break then you put em back in. Your best guys play 30 minutes a game barring foul trouble. Period.

That’s certainly the traditional way to do it. What Penny did against a depleted Houston roster was to get his best players rest as long as possible. Then as the game wound down and Houston’s best players started to tire, our rested starters took advantage and dominated the final five minutes of the game.

I’ll admit it’s a risky strategy, but in this game it helped us beat the spread by 20 points.

The key is that he has pretty much done that all season so the reserves are less likely to stumble because they have been allowed to play in the first half of each game. Would Minot have developed if he had not gotten the minutes?

this

(02-13-2022 06:28 PM)holyterror Wrote:  Okay I get it. Grab the biggest road win in all of college basketball this season, and then people complain about how you did it.

The complainers didn't get there using logic, so you can't use it to shake their stance.

They actually skip the part about covid illness and protocol and how that played into this season's lineups in a big way. If your most reliable and talented players are out...You would lose if your lineup is undeveloped freshman and/or rusty transfers who have not played a real game in years.