(02-12-2022 07:56 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:50 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:42 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:38 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:33 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  That could happen as well but only if the courts are at a standstill. But arbitration is the same thing as a settlement t. Don’t worry USM is gone.

No arbitration is not the same as a settlement. Arbitration is a panel of content experts hearing a case and deciding the fate vs a judge who may decide on his own or with a jury. Honestly all parties should want arbitration. In either scenario it’s on the one bringing the case (CUSA) to prove damages. They can scream breach of contract and when it’s asked what’s the penalty what’s the answer? There’s no penalty. A settlement is when two or more parties agree on cash value.

Come on man. I know you’re better than this.

But the end result is still an agreed upon money value. It’s just done by a third party. And arbitration is used mostly for negotiations. Contracts are hardly ever arbitrated because they are written in black and white and signed by both parties. So JUdy will say we will let you go but we want money to compensate for said scheduling issues that will cost us. It’s foolish to think any court will completely side with the party breaking the contract.

Ok. What’s the penalty described in the bylaws? There aren’t any. So what’s the leverage? It can proven that CUSA didn’t try to negotiate before then and therefore is entitled to distributions and that’s it.

CUSA doesn’t have to negotiate. They have the contract. There may still be a court that forces you to stay but I highly doubt it will come to that but it also may be worse that there is not set number for compensation in the contract because now it’s left to the discretion of the courts to determine how much Cusa loses by breaking the contract. But I just can’t see any court forcing you to stay.

Yes there is a contract but these contracts can be broken. Notice was given then another notice to leave early. This is a breach and that’s when penalties occur but there’s no penalty. This is not like I’m building an office for you and decide to go build an office for SSJ cause he showed more money. There are services that need to be rendered and accounted for and I think Phase hit it on the head. If CUSA takes us in and says they’re breaching contract and leaving early the first question is what’s the penalty? There’s no penalty.

I’m not a lawyer by any sense. I’ve just written a few contracts in my day and enforce them on a daily basis and usually there’s penalty. You don’t perform you owe this much. You breach you owe this much.

These bylaws are odd and if anything will shed light on how it’s written so if this happens again other universities know how to react.

The fact that notice and intent was given along with offers that were never denied or accepted along with the conference thinking it was all cool isn’t going to fly well in any court no matter the location.

(02-12-2022 07:56 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:50 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:42 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:38 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:33 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  That could happen as well but only if the courts are at a standstill. But arbitration is the same thing as a settlement t. Don’t worry USM is gone.

No arbitration is not the same as a settlement. Arbitration is a panel of content experts hearing a case and deciding the fate vs a judge who may decide on his own or with a jury. Honestly all parties should want arbitration. In either scenario it’s on the one bringing the case (CUSA) to prove damages. They can scream breach of contract and when it’s asked what’s the penalty what’s the answer? There’s no penalty. A settlement is when two or more parties agree on cash value.

Come on man. I know you’re better than this.

But the end result is still an agreed upon money value. It’s just done by a third party. And arbitration is used mostly for negotiations. Contracts are hardly ever arbitrated because they are written in black and white and signed by both parties. So JUdy will say we will let you go but we want money to compensate for said scheduling issues that will cost us. It’s foolish to think any court will completely side with the party breaking the contract.

Ok. What’s the penalty described in the bylaws? There aren’t any. So what’s the leverage? It can proven that CUSA didn’t try to negotiate before then and therefore is entitled to distributions and that’s it.

CUSA doesn’t have to negotiate. They have the contract. There may still be a court that forces you to stay but I highly doubt it will come to that but it also may be worse that there is not set number for compensation in the contract because now it’s left to the discretion of the courts to determine how much Cusa loses by breaking the contract. But I just can’t see any court forcing you to stay.

Where did you earn your Juris doctorate?

(02-12-2022 08:26 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:56 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:50 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:42 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:38 PM)gdunn Wrote:  No arbitration is not the same as a settlement. Arbitration is a panel of content experts hearing a case and deciding the fate vs a judge who may decide on his own or with a jury. Honestly all parties should want arbitration. In either scenario it’s on the one bringing the case (CUSA) to prove damages. They can scream breach of contract and when it’s asked what’s the penalty what’s the answer? There’s no penalty. A settlement is when two or more parties agree on cash value.

Come on man. I know you’re better than this.

But the end result is still an agreed upon money value. It’s just done by a third party. And arbitration is used mostly for negotiations. Contracts are hardly ever arbitrated because they are written in black and white and signed by both parties. So JUdy will say we will let you go but we want money to compensate for said scheduling issues that will cost us. It’s foolish to think any court will completely side with the party breaking the contract.

Ok. What’s the penalty described in the bylaws? There aren’t any. So what’s the leverage? It can proven that CUSA didn’t try to negotiate before then and therefore is entitled to distributions and that’s it.

CUSA doesn’t have to negotiate. They have the contract. There may still be a court that forces you to stay but I highly doubt it will come to that but it also may be worse that there is not set number for compensation in the contract because now it’s left to the discretion of the courts to determine how much Cusa loses by breaking the contract. But I just can’t see any court forcing you to stay.

Where did you earn your Juris doctorate?

Mass. So I can’t really speak to Texas law. They are not all the same but in corporate law they follow the same concept. I do know that there is a monetary case. My gut tells me it’s about money and not keeping you here. But there is always the choice to just finish out your year but it may be worth it to just be able to pay and get out

(02-12-2022 06:07 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  I think it more comes down to contracts. If you sign one it has to mean something. It could set a bad Precedent for all contracts. But I understand they that are excited to go but it is walking out on your obligations

CUSA was perfectly cool with schools negotiating their way out of a conference contract when MTSU & FIU were crossing the street in the opposite direction. Goose, gander, and that whole bit.

Quote: “How dare you keep us here”

Where have I heard this before?

Oh, yeah, the Civil War.

(02-12-2022 07:57 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:46 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  I think folk are fooling themselves if they think this will cost the leaving schools tons of money. 1) there is no penalty in the bylaws about what is paid in a case like this so 2) damages will have to be proven by CUSA. When a contract is broken, absent the contract determining the penalty, the usual order is to put the parties into the same financial position as if the contract had not been broken. So CUSA is going to have to open the books and show what damages were caused, i.e. revenue lost, extra expenses incurred, etc, etc. The TV contract is crap, so even if the media partners say they are dropping the payments by X%, we still aren't talking much money. I doubt bowl payouts or anything else like that changes due to the early move. In addition the 'pie' is being split 11 ways instead of 14, so the Sunbelt schools could argue the increased revenue per school should be used to calculate an offset against the damages. Marshall, ODU and Southern Miss will end up paying something for breaking the contract, and they certainly SHOULD pay something, as the remaining 11 should be made whole, so to speak. But for those who think we are talking millions of dollars for each leaving school, I'd be shocked if it comes to that. The damages caused by them leaving early just aren't great enough to justify that kind of a judgement.

All that said, it COULD depend on where the case is adjudicated. I do not know Texas contract law specifically and some states laws certainly do seek to punish the offender, the one who breaks the contracts. If Texas has such laws then my opinion above could change. :-)

How many conference tournaments were supposed to be hosted by one of the SB3 in 2022? It seems that relocating those events could be costly. In Texas the SB3 will have to cover the cost of C-USA's legal fees too. There is certainly the potential for this to be an expensive settlement. We will see how it plays out.

The real question should be how many conference tournaments were supposed to be hosted by one of the SB3 after 6/30/22.

Southern Mississippi (for example) is scheduled to host the CUSA baseball tournament at the end of May '22 - a full month before their departure from CUSA. The conference does not need to relocate that event so there would be no cost to them.

If the conference decided to move it out of spite, maybe North Texas could offer to host it.

I'm not going to trash the conference on yalls board, that's what our board and Twitter are full, and I've wished yall well in other posts, so don't take this as smack

It's frankly not our problem. Other than maybe some money, we don't owe a single team nor the conference a thing. We have no loyalty we should honor, we have no real ties or rivalries (exception being MAYBE WKU.

Confrenece officials were notified in December. They want to play games. But end of the day, we're out.
I just find it hilarious that people have called us dead weight even though there's almost a 100% chance we've got a winning record against your school. And now, some of yall want to force us to stay. Even Libeety, who doesn't have a dog in the fight, are giving a weird cult like response to this.

I still wish every new and future confrence members the best, but we have no reason to worry about burning bridges with the conference, the B was rickety anyway

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

If having to play football in an eleven member conference without divisions for one season is the biggest problem in your life, I truly envy you.

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

Really stupid comment. If NT was in this position, you wouldn't say all this! This seems like just another attack on ODU. So what? ODU cancelled 2020! Look how many other schools continued to play, but had nearly half it's games cancelled. How about all the teams across the country ready to play a game on Saturday and ended up getting cancelled on Friday? You didn't read things through. Each school reached out to CUSA in an attempt to talk about leaving early and there was no communication returned on several different occasions. So yeah, each school left! Isn't there 3 other schools CUSA is ready to replace the SBC3 with?

CUSA doesn’t know how to revise schedules? One more thing Judy and Co struggle with, long list.

(02-12-2022 08:47 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:57 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 07:46 PM)forphase1 Wrote:  I think folk are fooling themselves if they think this will cost the leaving schools tons of money. 1) there is no penalty in the bylaws about what is paid in a case like this so 2) damages will have to be proven by CUSA. When a contract is broken, absent the contract determining the penalty, the usual order is to put the parties into the same financial position as if the contract had not been broken. So CUSA is going to have to open the books and show what damages were caused, i.e. revenue lost, extra expenses incurred, etc, etc. The TV contract is crap, so even if the media partners say they are dropping the payments by X%, we still aren't talking much money. I doubt bowl payouts or anything else like that changes due to the early move. In addition the 'pie' is being split 11 ways instead of 14, so the Sunbelt schools could argue the increased revenue per school should be used to calculate an offset against the damages. Marshall, ODU and Southern Miss will end up paying something for breaking the contract, and they certainly SHOULD pay something, as the remaining 11 should be made whole, so to speak. But for those who think we are talking millions of dollars for each leaving school, I'd be shocked if it comes to that. The damages caused by them leaving early just aren't great enough to justify that kind of a judgement.

All that said, it COULD depend on where the case is adjudicated. I do not know Texas contract law specifically and some states laws certainly do seek to punish the offender, the one who breaks the contracts. If Texas has such laws then my opinion above could change. :-)

How many conference tournaments were supposed to be hosted by one of the SB3 in 2022? It seems that relocating those events could be costly. In Texas the SB3 will have to cover the cost of C-USA's legal fees too. There is certainly the potential for this to be an expensive settlement. We will see how it plays out.

The real question should be how many conference tournaments were supposed to be hosted by one of the SB3 after 6/30/22.

Southern Mississippi (for example) is scheduled to host the CUSA baseball tournament at the end of May '22 - a full month before their departure from CUSA. The conference does not need to relocate that event so there would be no cost to them.

If the conference decided to move it out of spite, maybe North Texas could offer to host it.

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

Hope this isn't smack !!!

Your universities ass would be out the door faster than grease lightning if it could be. So would the other 5 going to the AACk.

BUT YOU CAN'T

(02-12-2022 09:49 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA doesn’t know how to revise schedules? One more thing Judy and Co struggle with, long list.

Uh, should somebody let the AAC know how hard it is to make a football schedule with only 11 schools?

(02-12-2022 09:59 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

Hope this isn't smack !!!

Your universities ass would be out the door faster than grease lightning if it could be. So would the other 5 going to the AACk.

BUT YOU CAN'T

If that were the case, I'd expect a thank you card from President Smith for saying him the headache

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

Slow joe…you never disappoint.

(02-12-2022 10:27 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 09:49 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA doesn’t know how to revise schedules? One more thing Judy and Co struggle with, long list.

Uh, should somebody let the AAC know how hard it is to make a football schedule with only 11 schools?

The B10 done it for 17 years straight.

Charlotte doesn't get a dime of this money, so I don't care. I am curious though, we all agree that the SB3 is breaking their contract with CUSA and there will be some cost to do that. But is the Sun Belt encouraging or facilitating the breach? Could the Belt find themselves drawn into this battle for tortious interference? I am no lawyer, but it seems like a possibility.

(02-12-2022 09:46 PM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  

(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.

It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.

Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.

Really stupid comment. If NT was in this position, you wouldn't say all this! This seems like just another attack on ODU. So what? ODU cancelled 2020! Look how many other schools continued to play, but had nearly half it's games cancelled. How about all the teams across the country ready to play a game on Saturday and ended up getting cancelled on Friday? You didn't read things through. Each school reached out to CUSA in an attempt to talk about leaving early and there was no communication returned on several different occasions. So yeah, each school left! Isn't there 3 other schools CUSA is ready to replace the SBC3 with?

Really stupid attempt at a retort. If UNT was in the same position, I'd be mad as hell about having to return to the Sun Belt. And, this thread isn't an attack on ODU. ODU just happened to be the best example that would make my point. It isn't my fault ODU was the only program in C-USA to cancel their entire football season in 2020. Sure other teams were forced to cancel games. But, those programs didn't unilaterally scrap their seasons. What ODU did is just the closest analogy to the effect the SB3 leaving early would have on C-USA scheduling. You shouldn't take this stuff so personal.

Just stop slow joe. SMU owns you and Dallas and I know that is hard to accept. But it is what it is.

(02-12-2022 11:07 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  Just stop slow joe. SMU owns you and Dallas and I know that is hard to accept. But it is what it is.

Oh okay... They'll probably keep us out of the AAC too.

But this thread isn't about UNT, SMU, or the Dallas market. It's about the SB3 breaking the by-laws of C-USA. We'll see how it all plays out.