(02-13-2022 12:00 AM)goofus Wrote:  Maybe there is a potential compromise between the east-west realignment idea that still keeps the NL-AL alignment for most teams the same

NL West
SD, LAD, SF, Ariz, Col

NL mountain
SEA, Oak, LAA, tex, Hou

I don't see how renaming the AL West solves the problem of having two Texas teams and three west coast teams in the same division.

(02-14-2022 02:32 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 05:36 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  My scenarios:

Oakland moves to LV or Portland, Rays move to Charlotte or Nashville
Expand to the cities not picked
Realign to 4 divisions

AL EAST

NYY
BOSTON
TORONTO
BALTIMORE
CHARLOTTE
NASHVILLE
CLEVELAND
DETROIT

AL WEST

CHISOX
KANSAS CITY
MINNESOTA
TEXAS
HOUSTON
ANAHEIM
LAS VEGAS
SEATTLE

NL EAST

NYM
WASHINGTON
ATLANTA
MIAMI
PHILADELPHIA
PITTSBURGH
CINCINNATI
MILWAUKEE

NL WEST

ST LOUIS
CHICAGO CUBS
COLORADO
ARIZONA
SAN DIEGO
SAN FRANCISCO
LOS ANGELES
PORTLAND

This isn’t bad. As long as we (the Cubs) align with the Cardinals, I don’t care what division or league we’re in. My only suggestion would be switch Las Vegas and Portland. The AL West has Seattle and the NL West has Arizona/San Diego. The geography might be better. Milwaukee is a rough fit in the NL East as are Charlotte and Nashville in the AL East but there’s no good way to swap.

I DEFINITELY was trying to keep rivals together. I put Portland in the NL so the league would have a foothold in the PNW

(02-14-2022 03:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 12:00 AM)goofus Wrote:  Maybe there is a potential compromise between the east-west realignment idea that still keeps the NL-AL alignment for most teams the same

NL West
SD, LAD, SF, Ariz, Col

NL mountain
SEA, Oak, LAA, tex, Hou

I don't see how renaming the AL West solves the problem of having two Texas teams and three west coast teams in the same division.

Yes , you are right. After thinking about this some more, this would not work. The only real answer is to do the 4-team or 8-team divisions by time zone.

(02-14-2022 07:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 02:32 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 05:36 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  My scenarios:

Oakland moves to LV or Portland, Rays move to Charlotte or Nashville
Expand to the cities not picked
Realign to 4 divisions

AL EAST

NYY
BOSTON
TORONTO
BALTIMORE
CHARLOTTE
NASHVILLE
CLEVELAND
DETROIT

AL WEST

CHISOX
KANSAS CITY
MINNESOTA
TEXAS
HOUSTON
ANAHEIM
LAS VEGAS
SEATTLE

NL EAST

NYM
WASHINGTON
ATLANTA
MIAMI
PHILADELPHIA
PITTSBURGH
CINCINNATI
MILWAUKEE

NL WEST

ST LOUIS
CHICAGO CUBS
COLORADO
ARIZONA
SAN DIEGO
SAN FRANCISCO
LOS ANGELES
PORTLAND

This isn’t bad. As long as we (the Cubs) align with the Cardinals, I don’t care what division or league we’re in. My only suggestion would be switch Las Vegas and Portland. The AL West has Seattle and the NL West has Arizona/San Diego. The geography might be better. Milwaukee is a rough fit in the NL East as are Charlotte and Nashville in the AL East but there’s no good way to swap.

I DEFINITELY was trying to keep rivals together. I put Portland in the NL so the league would have a foothold in the PNW

It just seems like you are so close now to just putting the western most teams in the same division, you might as well finish it by moving the angels, A's and mariners to the NL West, then move the Cubs, Cards and Rockies to the AL West and rename it the Central division.

The more we debate this, the more logical the 4 divisions based on time zone sound

West
SD, LAD, LAA, Oak, SF, Sea, Ariz, Col, Sea

Central
Minn, Mil, CHWS, CHC, STL, KC, Tex, Hou

Noth
NYY, Boston, Balt, Tor, Cle, Det, NYM

East
Pitt, Cincy, Philly, Wash Atl, Miami, Tampa

Some possibilities:

Conservative MLB Realignment (expansion: Carolina + Nashville)

American League
East: Baltimore, Boston, New York, Toronto
North: Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota
South: Houston, Kansas City, Nashville, Texas
West: Arizona, Los Angeles, Oakland (LV?), Seattle

National League
East: New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington
North: Chicago, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis
South: Atlanta, Carolina, Miami, Tampa Bay
West: Colorado, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco


Conservative MLB Realignment (expansion: Montreal + Carolina or Nashville)

American League
Atlantic: Baltimore, Boston, New York, Tampa Bay
East: Cleveland, Detroit, Montreal, Toronto
Central: Chicago, Houston, Minnesota, Texas
West: Arizona, Los Angeles, Oakland (LV?), Seattle

National League
Atlantic: Miami, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
East: Atlanta, Carolina/Nashville, Cincinnati, Washington
Central: Chicago, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis
West: Colorado, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco


Geographic MLB Realignment (expansion: Carolina + Nashville)

Atlantic: Baltimore, Boston, Miami, New York, New York, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Washington
Eastern: Atlanta, Carolina, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Toronto
Central: Chicago, Chicago, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis, Texas
Pacific: Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, Oakland (LV?), San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle


Geographic MLB Realignment (expansion: Montreal + Carolina or Nashville)

Atlantic: Boston, Miami, Montreal, New York, New York, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Toronto
Eastern: Atlanta, Baltimore, Carolina/Nashville, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington
Central: Chicago, Chicago, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis, Texas
Pacific: Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, Oakland (LV?), San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle


For those of you who are more graphically inclined, the same realignments above but in image form:

I have a headache trying to understand that chart.

(07-20-2023 11:33 AM)C2__ Wrote:  I have a headache trying to understand that chart.

Well, they were fun to make. I'll add text-only versions.

Total Geographic Realignment is dumb and bad for baseball.

The NBA and NHL struggle with the fact that there are 30 or 32 teams, and you can't play all of them AND play all the local teams "enough" times because the league is too big.

But baseball has a built-in advantage that for 100 years, they were two separate leagues that NEVER played each other, and for 125 years they were two separate leagues that SELDOM played each other, so it was like a "20-team league" for each team's schedule. Which is manageable.

The other benefit of AL/NL is that usually adjacent teams are in different leagues: TOR AL, PIT NL, CLE AL, CIN NL, CWS AL, CHC NL.

Which means they don't directly compete for fans. Nothing stops BOTH TEAMS from being successful, because fans in the middle can root for both. You could be a Cleveland fan living in Columbus who'd have no problem going to a game in Cincinnati. (While in the same city, Mets fans aren't going to Yankee Stadium to catch a random game).

But when the AL had BOTH Washington and Baltimore (and the NL stopped at Philadelphia), the Washington Senators did very poorly on the field and business wise, and moved to Minnesota. An expansion Senators took their place in the AL... and the Orioles were one of the best teams in baseball; and the Senators did terrible business and moved to Texas.

So maintaining AL/NL is smarter.

The other problem with Total Geographic Realignment is that Every league has "The Central Problem."

The Central Time Zone teams are in the "Western 51% of teams" while being no where remotely close geographically (or by time zone) wise to the west coast. They'd ALL rather be tied to the Eastern teams than the Western teams.

So if you have a Western Conference that all the Central teams are in, they're probably playing the Pacific division more than the Eastern teams, which is really bad for TV contracts.

The ONE GROUP of teams that radical realignment "works for" is the West. Because if they can play each other more at 7 pm, and play a lot less games on the road at 4 pm PT, that's a lot better for their fans and for TV.


So the best two ways to align a 32-MLB going forward, would be AL and NL, four divisions of four. Restore the "one team per region for each league" thing (aka Houston to NL, Colorado to AL). And set a schedule where interleague is your "Rival Division" and you play them a decent amount.

16 vs Division, 6 vs league AND 6 vs rival division, then one series vs half the remaining other league's teams = 162, and you play everyone in baseball once every 4 years. That works.

NL West: SD, LAD, SF, ARZ
AL West: SEA, LAA, OAK/LV, COL

NL Central: HOU, STL, CHC, MIL
AL Central: TEX, KC, CWS, MIN

NL East: NYM, PHI, WAS, Montreal
AL Esat: NYY, BOS, BAL, TOR

NL Mideast: PIT, CIN, MIA, ATL
AL Mideast: DET, CLE, TB, NASH

There's "better ways" to align the groups of four in each league, but each group matches with the interleague group; where if you make an NL South and an AL North, you have TOR vs MIA instead of TOR vs MON.


The other way to do it is to pretend that when MLB had 16 teams, two leagues of eight and it was the "golden age of baseball" until the Dodgers/Giants moved... DOUBLE what you had: Four leagues of 8. But base them on how MLB looked in 1957 vs now.

National: STL, MIL, CHC, CIN, PIT, PHI, NYM, Montreal
American: MIN, CWS, DET, CLE, BAL, NYY, BOS, Toronto
Western: LAD, LAA, SFG, OAK/LV, SD, SEA, ARZ, COL
Southern: HOU, TEX, KC, Nashville, WAS, ATL, TB, MIA

Play 16 vs league (112 games). Play half the teams in the other leagues ONE four-game series each (48 games).
2 vs 3 in wild card, winner gets 1st in the LCS; Four winners to MLB Semis, winners to WS.

This gives the West a ton more local starts, eliminates the Central Problem, and reduces travel drastically.

And it also has an advantage of the votes. Every MLB team who switches league has the right to veto. So if you radically realign, you're looking at 18-22 teams with veto power. Going to four divisions of four, all the new division teams and anyone switching has veto power.

In this Four League format... 15 teams have veto power. But TEN of them are getting an amazing increase in what they want (the 10 teams currently in the West divisions), three teams are getting away from massive spenders in their division, and Atlanta gets a chance to out-play Nashville or Charlotte for the fans who grew up theirs and they might lose to the new team.

Now it looks like the Brewers are exploring relocation:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/brewe...er-report/

(08-12-2023 05:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Now it looks like the Brewers are exploring relocation:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/brewe...er-report/

Won't happen. I bet it works out so they stay. Bud Selig would make sure of it.

best i could do considering geography and no expansion

ny
ny
bawston
philly
toronto

warsh
balt
atl
miami
tampon

pit
cin
cle
det
st lou

mil
chi
chi
minny
kc

hou
den
bags
tejas
vegas

sea
la
la
sf
sd

AL East: TOR, BOS, NYY, BAL
AL South: NASH*, TEX, HOU, KC
AL North: CLE, DET, CWS, MIN
AL West: LAA, SEA, LV, ARZ^

NL East: NYM, PHI, PIT, WASH
NL South: MIA, TB^, ATL, CLT*
NL North: CIN, CHC, MIL, STL
NL West: COL, LAD, SF, SD

———————————————

Alternatively, if you wanted to add one new team in the West, instead of the South:
AL East: TOR, BOS, NYY, BAL
AL South: COL^, TEX, HOU, KC
AL North: CLE, DET, CWS, MIN
AL West: LAA, SEA, LV, POR*/SLC*

NL East: NYM, PHI, PIT, WASH
NL South: MIA, TB^, ATL, CLT*/NASH*
NL North: CIN, CHC, MIL, STL
NL West: ARZ, LAD, SF, SD

In either set up, you’re asking some of the newest teams in baseball to switch leagues for a geographically friendly division.

What does CLT stand for?

(08-26-2023 01:46 PM)C2__ Wrote:  What does CLT stand for?

I'm assuming Charlotte. Both south divisions look like the AFC South where they stuck all the spare parts.

(08-26-2023 02:03 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(08-26-2023 01:46 PM)C2__ Wrote:  What does CLT stand for?

I'm assuming Charlotte. Both south divisions look like the AFC South where they stuck all the spare parts.

When you’re going from 3 divisions per league to 4, one of those is bound to look like an amalgamation of the spare bits.

In the NL you’d have Atlanta, the 2 FL teams, and and an expansion club from a state bordering GA—pretty logical to me.

AL is a little wonky but it makes more sense to have the TX clubs with Central/MTN time zone teams than with the West Coast like they are now. KC, as both the Southern and Westernmost AL Central team joins them KC has had ties to the state of Texas since the days of the cattle drives. Either the Rockies or a new Nashville club would round this group out—not great but better than trips to Seattle, Anaheim, Oakland/LV.