(02-09-2022 10:49 PM)AztecNation Wrote:  I don't think the Pac will want any of the religious schools (big reason why they didn't want BYU) so that eliminates TCU, Baylor and SMU. UNT, UTSA and UTEP probably aren't anywhere close to the radar. So that leaves Houston, Rice, and Texas Tech. I could see them being interested in Houston and maybe Rice but maybe not Texas Tech. Would the Pac want to go all the way to Houston for Houston and Rice? Not so sure about that.

During the most recent PAC 12 non-expansion it was rumored/reported that the highest on the list was Houston. Number 2 is a mystery.

(02-09-2022 06:15 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 06:12 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 05:20 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The PAC 12's interest in expanding to Tx pretty much ended when aTm went to the SEC. The PAC is loaded with elitists. An expansion of OU, OSU, Ut and aTm is what the PAC wanted. I really don't believe the PAC would have ever accepted TT as an option. Now, that the top three expansion targets are in the SEC, the PAC would never consider any of the remaining Tx schools.

That would have been a nice 4 team add.

The SEC got the 3 best out of those 4. It's funny that for years we discussed how difficult it would be to split Oklahoma and Oklahoma State because of state law or whatever and likewise how hard it would be to land Texas without any other little brothers.

The SEC landed Texas and Oklahoma without any of that.

Yup but apparently it was easy once SEC money came along

(02-09-2022 04:32 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:26 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Would the PAC 12 be interested in schools from major metropolitan areas in Texas that have excellent facilities? Or is it UT or bust?

The non-CA schools want as many games in CA as possible. Any expansion scenario minimizes their games in CA, so I doubt you’ll ever see P12 expansion. This can be overcome when Texas is part of the package because it vastly improves everyone’s revenue, but otherwise there isn’t a per school revenue increase that compensates for less presence in CA. While TX is massive, CA is the boom-or-bust student/alumni hub for all P12 schools.

One of the few times "I will actually agree with I woke up like this."

Basically, even though common sense would dictate that taking a few Texas programs, even G5 ones, would be good for the P12 as a whole, the P12 believes that they are too good for the vast majority of Texas teams, except for Texas and A&M. Since those boats have sailed, the P12 believes that no one is good enough to join.

I myself think that is a pile of garbage (the America East conference is literally the East Coast equivalent of the P12, IMO), but my $.02 will only get you a cup of coffee at your local credit union/bank.

(02-09-2022 10:49 PM)AztecNation Wrote:  I don't think the Pac will want any of the religious schools (big reason why they didn't want BYU) so that eliminates TCU, Baylor and SMU. UNT, UTSA and UTEP probably aren't anywhere close to the radar. So that leaves Houston, Rice, and Texas Tech. I could see them being interested in Houston and maybe Rice but maybe not Texas Tech. Would the Pac want to go all the way to Houston for Houston and Rice? Not so sure about that.

That seems like a pretty insightful & incisive comment.

What do you think of option D?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

OPTION D - "Chinese Menu" ("One from column A, & one from column B")

Advantages:

--The PAC could design a solution that meets all of their needs to some extent without having to deal with unacceptable disadvantages.
--They could add two Big 12 schools to tap into the Central Time Zone. At least one should be located in/near Houston or DFW, and one, if not both should have a top 25 FB program and a good BB program (e.g., Oklahoma State).
--They could also add two MWC schools, which would help to keep the current PAC-12 presidents in the driver's seat and minimize the effects of a Big 12 culture clash.
--With football being their major concern, they could add a MWC powerhouse such as Boise St. (if BSU would agree to make a $110 million+ commitment to improve their academic programs, establish a major research center, and move toward R1 status ASAP.
--They could add a glamour destination like Hawaii to help lower their blood pressure and increase their quality of life, or San Diego with its sunshine, beaches, and proximity to Mexico holiday spots.
--They could add a hybrid of Hawaii FB and Gonzaga BB.
--Or, more prosaically, they could add CSU and Utah St. (or BSU) to provide Utah and Colorado with travel partners and bolster their viewership in those two western growth states.

(02-09-2022 11:00 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  During the most recent PAC 12 non-expansion it was rumored/reported that the highest on the list was Houston. Number 2 is a mystery.

Oklahoma State, perhaps? That would provide them with a football powerhouse, as well as a solid basketball school, and though not in Texas, it's pretty close.

1) Houston, (2) Oklahoma State, (3) Colorado St., (4) Hawaii(FB)/Gonzaga (BB)

That might not be a bad combination.

(02-10-2022 01:02 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:32 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:26 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Would the PAC 12 be interested in schools from major metropolitan areas in Texas that have excellent facilities? Or is it UT or bust?

The non-CA schools want as many games in CA as possible. Any expansion scenario minimizes their games in CA, so I doubt you’ll ever see P12 expansion. This can be overcome when Texas is part of the package because it vastly improves everyone’s revenue, but otherwise there isn’t a per school revenue increase that compensates for less presence in CA. While TX is massive, CA is the boom-or-bust student/alumni hub for all P12 schools.

One of the few times "I will actually agree with I woke up like this."

Basically, even though common sense would dictate that taking a few Texas programs, even G5 ones, would be good for the P12 as a whole, the P12 believes that they are too good for the vast majority of Texas teams, except for Texas and A&M. Since those boats have sailed, the P12 believes that no one is good enough to join.

I myself think that is a pile of garbage (the America East conference is literally the East Coast equivalent of the P12, IMO), but my $.02 will only get you a cup of coffee at your local credit union/bank.

It goes back to my frequent statement that we have to think like a university president and not like a sports fan.

The Pac-12 has 9 AAU schools and a 10th school (Arizona State) that has been vaulting up the rankings (both undergrad and grad) over the past several years. Stanford is the single most difficult school in the country to gain admission to in the country (even more than Harvard). They are as focused on the academic prestige of potential members as the Big Ten.

So, whenever we discuss the Pac-12, we need to take a basic step back and ask whether Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA and USC would find a school academically acceptable. Those are not only the 4 highest ranked academic schools in the Pac-12 but also the 4 located in their most important region of California. I see a lot of names thrown out for Pac-12 expansion, yet if people just think for a few moments and ask the above question, it's really difficult to see a viable Pac-12 candidate as an *institution* (not an athletic program) that isn't already in the Big Ten, SEC or ACC besides maybe Kansas (and that doesn't address any pure football-related issues). If Rice could actually be a halfway decent football program, they'd be one of the most sought-after schools in conference realignment.

(02-09-2022 10:49 PM)AztecNation Wrote:  I don't think the Pac will want any of the religious schools (big reason why they didn't want BYU) so that eliminates TCU, Baylor and SMU. UNT, UTSA and UTEP probably aren't anywhere close to the radar. So that leaves Houston, Rice, and Texas Tech. I could see them being interested in Houston and maybe Rice but maybe not Texas Tech. Would the Pac want to go all the way to Houston for Houston and Rice? Not so sure about that.

Believe me, as an alum, there is nothing religious about SMU. No more than USC. SMU has a very liberal theology school on campus. That’s it.

If I’m the PAC and I am forced to add 4 schools, I’m only looking at the XII: Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, and Texas Tech. If Kansas is unavailable, then TCU. It’s not great. They should’ve taken the Oklahoma schools when they had the opportunity.

Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

(02-10-2022 11:57 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

I like that duo along with Oklahoma St and Texas Tech.

(02-10-2022 12:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 11:57 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

I like that duo along with Oklahoma St and Texas Tech.

TCU is just as “Christian” as SMU. And Fort Worth is a lot smaller than Dallas.

(02-10-2022 12:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 12:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 11:57 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

I like that duo along with Oklahoma St and Texas Tech.

TCU is just as “Christian” as SMU. And Fort Worth is a lot smaller than Dallas.

I made no mention of faith regarding TCU. Not sure why that comment was included.

Fort Worth being smaller to Dallas is true but unimportant here. Yes, TCU is in Forth Worth and SMU is in Dallas but they practically share a bed. I don't think a hard line is drawn between the cities as to market share.

(02-10-2022 01:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 12:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 12:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 11:57 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

I like that duo along with Oklahoma St and Texas Tech.

TCU is just as “Christian” as SMU. And Fort Worth is a lot smaller than Dallas.

I made no mention of faith regarding TCU. Not sure why that comment was included.

Fort Worth being smaller to Dallas is true but unimportant here. Yes, TCU is in Forth Worth and SMU is in Dallas but they practically share a bed. I don't think a hard line is drawn between the cities as to market share.

They are distinct cities. With the Cowboys and Rangers they are one market. But SMU is a Dallas school and TCU is a Ft. Worth school. Now TCU has a lot better penetration into Ft. Worth than SMU does in Dallas.

Honest question. What's the difference between Texas A&M and Oklahoma St?

(02-10-2022 01:23 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  Honest question. What's the difference between Texas A&M and Oklahoma St?

???

Texas A&M is an AAU academic research powerhouse with a massive alumni base that's located in the State of Texas between Dallas, Austin and Houston. They score super-high on every conceivable conference realignment metric.

(02-10-2022 10:29 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If I’m the PAC and I am forced to add 4 schools, I’m only looking at the XII: Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, and Texas Tech. If Kansas is unavailable, then TCU. It’s not great. They should’ve taken the Oklahoma schools when they had the opportunity.

That's the problem, no one can force the PAC to add members. The PAC should have taken Texas-Austin when the SWC was breaking-up; they should have taken the combo of OU & Okie State a decade ago. PAC membership is not being driven by traditional media rights concerns...membership is overwhelmingly about fit, and there is no good fit available in Texas (nor the rest of the B12).

The PAC will die on the hill for the new Alliance. It's their only move to transform their product. If that doesn't work and schools need revenues, the AAU majority will probably seek a merger with the B10. PAC expansion is just not realistic.

(02-10-2022 01:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 01:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 12:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 12:03 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-10-2022 11:57 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  Houston, TCU, TTU, and OSU could be real possibilities IMO. I believe it was leaked that TCU and Houston are already on the PACs radar.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/art...13023.html

I like that duo along with Oklahoma St and Texas Tech.

TCU is just as “Christian” as SMU. And Fort Worth is a lot smaller than Dallas.

I made no mention of faith regarding TCU. Not sure why that comment was included.

Fort Worth being smaller to Dallas is true but unimportant here. Yes, TCU is in Forth Worth and SMU is in Dallas but they practically share a bed. I don't think a hard line is drawn between the cities as to market share.

They are distinct cities. With the Cowboys and Rangers they are one market. But SMU is a Dallas school and TCU is a Ft. Worth school. Now TCU has a lot better penetration into Ft. Worth than SMU does in Dallas.

I’ll admit I’m a homer. But SMU has better academics and has beaten TCU the last two times we’ve met in football, both times in Fort Worth. Everything else is about equal.

Dont have a link to share but I'm pretty sure that TCU and OSU in particular have pretty good tv ratings even when you remove UT/OU.

(02-09-2022 04:49 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:32 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:26 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Would the PAC 12 be interested in schools from major metropolitan areas in Texas that have excellent facilities? Or is it UT or bust?

The non-CA schools want as many games in CA as possible. Any expansion scenario minimizes their games in CA, so I doubt you’ll ever see P12 expansion. This can be overcome when Texas is part of the package because it vastly improves everyone’s revenue, but otherwise there isn’t a per school revenue increase that compensates for less presence in CA. While TX is massive, CA is the boom-or-bust student/alumni hub for all P12 schools.

I hear what you’re saying but it seems like some conference would recognize value when it’s so obvious.

The people you need to convince are at ESPN and Fox, not people on a message board or even in a conference office. If those TV networks, through a consultant, told the Pac-12, "We will pay each current Pac-12 member $10 million more per year if you add School X and School Y", then the commissioner would be chartering a jet and holding press conferences on the campuses of School X and School Y.

The value is only "obvious" after the TV networks, and not anyone else, make it so. The conference, correctly, has the same attitude as Rod Tidwell in "Jerry Maguire": Show me the money.

(02-10-2022 04:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:49 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:32 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(02-09-2022 04:26 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Would the PAC 12 be interested in schools from major metropolitan areas in Texas that have excellent facilities? Or is it UT or bust?

The non-CA schools want as many games in CA as possible. Any expansion scenario minimizes their games in CA, so I doubt you’ll ever see P12 expansion. This can be overcome when Texas is part of the package because it vastly improves everyone’s revenue, but otherwise there isn’t a per school revenue increase that compensates for less presence in CA. While TX is massive, CA is the boom-or-bust student/alumni hub for all P12 schools.

I hear what you’re saying but it seems like some conference would recognize value when it’s so obvious.

The people you need to convince are at ESPN and Fox, not people on a message board or even in a conference office. If those TV networks, through a consultant, told the Pac-12, "We will pay each current Pac-12 member $10 million more per year if you add School X and School Y", then the commissioner would be chartering a jet and holding press conferences on the campuses of School X and School Y.

The value is only "obvious" after the TV networks, and not anyone else, make it so. The conference, correctly, has the same attitude as Rod Tidwell in "Jerry Maguire": Show me the money.

You’re probably correct. ESPN and Fox will eventually come around when we win a few conference championships in football and basketball. We’re already the best in soccer, swimming, and other Olympic sports, and we continue to improve in academics. Maybe the PAC 12 isn’t who we should target.

Amusing to read the Pac-12 as "elitists" when the very word defines the Orangebloods.