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Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
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Cucumber Salad Offline
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Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6295773494001#sp=show-clips

Dr. Marty Makary of JHU summarizes report.

It’s not about vaccines. It’s not about masking.

For the single largest medical intervention in history there were about 123,000+ additional deaths above the typical non-Covid during the period. The question is to unpack that data and determine its relationship to the policies that instituted lockdowns.

There will be viral pandemics in the future. Refusing to learn from this most recent experience assures repeating failures that could be mitigated.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2022 10:06 PM by Cucumber Salad.)
02-05-2022 10:05 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
Real lockdowns, that the US didn't have, do work at least in the short to medium term. You can see that from countries that used them. There's a real debate to be had as to whether it's worth doing or not, but pretending the US had hard lockdowns in order to discredit their efficacy is nonsense.
02-06-2022 04:49 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.
02-06-2022 07:12 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 07:12 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.

How would you describe how Dr. Marty Makary came to his conclusions he shared of this report?
02-06-2022 07:46 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 07:46 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:12 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.

How would you describe how Dr. Marty Makary came to his conclusions he shared of this report?

"According to the study released this week, lockdowns were defined “as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI)."

That is, frankly, a stupid way to define "lockdown".
02-06-2022 08:04 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 08:04 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:46 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:12 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.

How would you describe how Dr. Marty Makary came to his conclusions he shared of this report?

"According to the study released this week, lockdowns were defined “as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI)."

That is, frankly, a stupid way to define "lockdown".

SaveOurChildren from NIGHTLY lockdowns! Being forced to go to bed before 9 on a schoolday is TYRRANY!
02-06-2022 08:14 PM
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Cucumber Salad Offline
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 08:04 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:46 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:12 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.

How would you describe how Dr. Marty Makary came to his conclusions he shared of this report?

"According to the study released this week, lockdowns were defined “as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI)."

That is, frankly, a stupid way to define "lockdown".

You may not agree. But it’s more concise than your use of a “hard” lockdown.

A non-pharmaceutical intervention or non-pharmacological intervention (NPI) is any type of health intervention which is not primarily based on medication.

The study which was a compilation of numerous other economic studies we’re measuring the Non-Covid related death rate during the period of policies like isolation or lockdowns.

Data Showed a spike in non-Covid related deaths during the same period of mandated isolation or lockdowns. Cause and effect? Timelines align. Questions are raised.

The lockdowns included closing businesses which in many instances was inarguably arbitrary. Closing of schools and churches along with their many social services needed by many of the most vulnerable.

For those in the private sector who were affected loss of income could be devastating depending on their stage of life and circumstances.

The scientific consensus is we will have more respiratory viral events that could be on par with Covid. Learning from this last go round and eliminating the mistakes only makes it easier to manage effectively for all concerned.
02-06-2022 10:23 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
A lockdown is a lockdown. In this study, it's loaded language designed to lead the reader to a misleading conclusion. If we want to discuss the collateral effects of various NPIs, there is an honest conversation to be had there. It's hard to have that conversation from a bad faith start.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2022 10:49 PM by wmubroncopilot.)
02-06-2022 10:48 PM
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Cucumber Salad Offline
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 10:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  A lockdown is a lockdown. In this study, it's loaded language designed to lead the reader to a misleading conclusion. If we want to discuss the collateral effects of various NPIs, there is an honest conversation to be had there. It's hard to have that conversation from a bad faith start.

Thumb wrestling over semantics doesn’t answer the question of why a spike in non-Covid death rates occurred in a period coinciding with various non-pharmaceutical or Pharmalogical restrictions.

Call it what you want. It’s affects were numerous. Did it tie into the spike of non-Covid deaths? That’s what the study was trying to communicate.

Medical procedures denied and postponed indefinitely. Loss of job or cut in income. Parents and grandparents needing to find ways to cover for kids at home when normally kids would be in school and those parents and grandparents would be working. Mental health deterioration: depression, anxiety, fear, abandonment, anger and loneliness skyrocketing. Dying alone. Not being able to be with loved ones as they were dying.

If you define lockdowns as welding people inside their apartments so that they can’t “escape” and spread Covid I guess you’ve got a point.

For the rest of us I think the above aptly describes what many went through and heard about.

And the question still stands regarding Dr. Makary.
02-07-2022 12:08 AM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-06-2022 08:14 PM)WesternDave Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 08:04 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:46 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 07:12 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Love when a hyper-partisan economist can slap the JHU logo on his work and people just blindly believe that his narrative is gospel.

How would you describe how Dr. Marty Makary came to his conclusions he shared of this report?

"According to the study released this week, lockdowns were defined “as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI)."

That is, frankly, a stupid way to define "lockdown".

SaveOurChildren from NIGHTLY lockdowns! Being forced to go to bed before 9 on a schoolday is TYRRANY!

Do you have children or grandchildren? What do you or your spouse do for a living?
02-07-2022 12:10 AM
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broncofan1 Offline
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 12:08 AM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 10:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  A lockdown is a lockdown. In this study, it's loaded language designed to lead the reader to a misleading conclusion. If we want to discuss the collateral effects of various NPIs, there is an honest conversation to be had there. It's hard to have that conversation from a bad faith start.

Thumb wrestling over semantics doesn’t answer the question of why a spike in non-Covid death rates occurred in a period coinciding with various non-pharmaceutical or Pharmalogical restrictions.

Call it what you want. It’s affects were numerous. Did it tie into the spike of non-Covid deaths? That’s what the study was trying to communicate.

Medical procedures denied and postponed indefinitely. Loss of job or cut in income. Parents and grandparents needing to find ways to cover for kids at home when normally kids would be in school and those parents and grandparents would be working. Mental health deterioration: depression, anxiety, fear, abandonment, anger and loneliness skyrocketing. Dying alone. Not being able to be with loved ones as they were dying.

If you define lockdowns as welding people inside their apartments so that they can’t “escape” and spread Covid I guess you’ve got a point.

For the rest of us I think the above aptly describes what many went through and heard about.

And the question still stands regarding Dr. Makary.

Thumb wrestling over semantics is EXACTLY how they created this study. Reducing over 1000 studies down to 34 in order to fit their narrative.

Immediate eye-roll.
02-07-2022 07:39 AM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 07:39 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 12:08 AM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  
(02-06-2022 10:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  A lockdown is a lockdown. In this study, it's loaded language designed to lead the reader to a misleading conclusion. If we want to discuss the collateral effects of various NPIs, there is an honest conversation to be had there. It's hard to have that conversation from a bad faith start.

Thumb wrestling over semantics doesn’t answer the question of why a spike in non-Covid death rates occurred in a period coinciding with various non-pharmaceutical or Pharmalogical restrictions.

Call it what you want. It’s affects were numerous. Did it tie into the spike of non-Covid deaths? That’s what the study was trying to communicate.

Medical procedures denied and postponed indefinitely. Loss of job or cut in income. Parents and grandparents needing to find ways to cover for kids at home when normally kids would be in school and those parents and grandparents would be working. Mental health deterioration: depression, anxiety, fear, abandonment, anger and loneliness skyrocketing. Dying alone. Not being able to be with loved ones as they were dying.

If you define lockdowns as welding people inside their apartments so that they can’t “escape” and spread Covid I guess you’ve got a point.

For the rest of us I think the above aptly describes what many went through and heard about.

And the question still stands regarding Dr. Makary.

Thumb wrestling over semantics is EXACTLY how they created this study. Reducing over 1000 studies down to 34 in order to fit their narrative.

Immediate eye-roll.

How so?

And the question that I directed to you is still out regarding Dr. Makary.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2022 08:45 AM by Cucumber Salad.)
02-07-2022 08:43 AM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
Dr. Makary has become a Fox News and RW darling for being against lockdowns from the beginning. His support of this 'research' is a given, since it is catered to his worldview.

This isn't real research. It's a filtering method designed with the outcome already in mind.
02-07-2022 10:00 AM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 10:00 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Dr. Makary has become a Fox News and RW darling for being against lockdowns from the beginning. His support of this 'research' is a given, since it is catered to his worldview.

This isn't real research. It's a filtering method designed with the outcome already in mind.

Here’s a worldview example. Also, there are numerous other studies which say the same thing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...s-0-2.html
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2022 11:39 AM by Cocksman.)
02-07-2022 11:38 AM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 11:38 AM)Cocksman Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 10:00 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Dr. Makary has become a Fox News and RW darling for being against lockdowns from the beginning. His support of this 'research' is a given, since it is catered to his worldview.

This isn't real research. It's a filtering method designed with the outcome already in mind.

Here’s a worldview example. Also, there are numerous other studies which say the same thing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...s-0-2.html

Daily Mail, Fox News, Tucker! Seriously - you all claim that it was buried but it isn't peer reviewed and was designed with outcomes in mind. If you read peer reviewed research, you know this is faulty at best. It should not be taken seriously.

As for the lockdowns (real and otherwise) - those decisions were based on predictive analyses of data. All decisions are. The predictive studies at the time from NIH, CDC, and others showed the potential for catastrophic death. You are going to counter that they showed a 99% survival, but that leaves 30+ million dead in America alone. Many millions more in Europe.

This argument against lockdowns (real and otherwise) gets inflated with 20/20 bias. This report encapsulates that precisely.
02-07-2022 12:44 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 12:44 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 11:38 AM)Cocksman Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 10:00 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Dr. Makary has become a Fox News and RW darling for being against lockdowns from the beginning. His support of this 'research' is a given, since it is catered to his worldview.

This isn't real research. It's a filtering method designed with the outcome already in mind.

Here’s a worldview example. Also, there are numerous other studies which say the same thing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...s-0-2.html

Daily Mail, Fox News, Tucker! Seriously - you all claim that it was buried but it isn't peer reviewed and was designed with outcomes in mind. If you read peer reviewed research, you know this is faulty at best. It should not be taken seriously.

As for the lockdowns (real and otherwise) - those decisions were based on predictive analyses of data. All decisions are. The predictive studies at the time from NIH, CDC, and others showed the potential for catastrophic death. You are going to counter that they showed a 99% survival, but that leaves 30+ million dead in America alone. Many millions more in Europe.

This argument against lockdowns (real and otherwise) gets inflated with 20/20 bias. This report encapsulates that precisely.

Just the opposite. 2020 hindsight can provides a concise clear analysis that greatly reduces bias as opposed to being in the midst of the fog of war.

The policies for “otherwise” were based on predictive Analysis from what source? Flu outbreak 120 yrs ago?

With such peer brilliance how could the following have occurred?

Early on Fauci said it was perfectly all right to hook up on Tinder. What predictive analysis was that based on?

Social distancing at 6 feet wasn’t based on science. They stated so publically a yr and half into it but knew it from the outset.

Mask? We’re into this for 1 1/2 years to determine the blue cloth masks that 95% of people wear we’re utterly ineffective.

When did you stop scrubbing down your groceries and changing your clothes when out at the super spreader event known as the grocery store?
02-07-2022 03:12 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
I don't know who will agree with me on this but I will concur that the messaging (and often policymaking) was abysmal for much of this pandemic. I know Fauci and kind of by extension the CDC were heroes to the center-left but telling people early on that masks wouldn't help them was long term counterproductive. It took entirely too long to get the word out that N95/KN95 is the way to go as well. Telling vaccinated people to take off the masks and live completely normal before we knew how the vaccine affected spread was a huge blunder, not to mention it basically led to nobody caring since obviously the unvaxxed were of no mind to take measures.

I could go on, but you get the point. It doesn't really make this study any more pertinent, but certainly lessons to be learned.
02-07-2022 03:25 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 12:44 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 11:38 AM)Cocksman Wrote:  
(02-07-2022 10:00 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Dr. Makary has become a Fox News and RW darling for being against lockdowns from the beginning. His support of this 'research' is a given, since it is catered to his worldview.

This isn't real research. It's a filtering method designed with the outcome already in mind.

Here’s a worldview example. Also, there are numerous other studies which say the same thing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...s-0-2.html

Daily Mail, Fox News, Tucker! Seriously - you all claim that it was buried but it isn't peer reviewed and was designed with outcomes in mind. If you read peer reviewed research, you know this is faulty at best. It should not be taken seriously.

As for the lockdowns (real and otherwise) - those decisions were based on predictive analyses of data. All decisions are. The predictive studies at the time from NIH, CDC, and others showed the potential for catastrophic death. You are going to counter that they showed a 99% survival, but that leaves 30+ million dead in America alone. Many millions more in Europe.

This argument against lockdowns (real and otherwise) gets inflated with 20/20 bias. This report encapsulates that precisely.

The population of America is not 3 billion… Sort of nitpicky, but that’s a huge difference. It became obvious about a week into lockdowns that the survival rate was significantly higher that 99%, and for some age groups much higher than that.
02-07-2022 03:54 PM
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RE: Unpacking John Hopkins university lockdown mortality research
(02-07-2022 03:25 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I don't know who will agree with me on this but I will concur that the messaging (and often policymaking) was abysmal for much of this pandemic. I know Fauci and kind of by extension the CDC were heroes to the center-left but telling people early on that masks wouldn't help them was long term counterproductive. It took entirely too long to get the word out that N95/KN95 is the way to go as well. Telling vaccinated people to take off the masks and live completely normal before we knew how the vaccine affected spread was a huge blunder, not to mention it basically led to nobody caring since obviously the unvaxxed were of no mind to take measures.

I could go on, but you get the point. It doesn't really make this study any more pertinent, but certainly lessons to be learned.

I will agree. Technocrats need to accept that certain groups of people are ungovernable, but a critical mass of people will understand—but not if you brazenly lie to them so many times that they no longer take you seriously. Then you get into a “cry wolf” situation, and instead of coming clean they double-down.

The field of public relations is to blame.
02-07-2022 04:01 PM
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