First of Duke-North Carolina tonight. Coach K's last trip to Chapel Hill.

In terms of the NCAA Tournament, the ACC could use North Carolina winning. Carolina is 0-6 vs. NET Quad 1 although they are undefeated vs. Quad 2, 3, and 4. The last thing the ACC wants is Duke to beat everyone else in the ACC and win the ACC Tournament. The only ACC teams that have beaten Duke so far are Miami (NET #67) and Florida State (#82).

Syracuse creeping back into post season discussion. Gotta finish 5-2 in the regular season. Do well in ACC tournament.

UVa still has a shot to make the Tourney. Some games they look mediocre. Today they looked good against Miami. They’re never going to be great, but no team in the ACC is impressive.

Duke at UNC - not living up to the hype so far.

(02-05-2022 07:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Duke at UNC - not living up to the hype so far.

Some of us think it was a GREAT game.

How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

(02-06-2022 10:20 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

I'd be more interested in the last 20 years. I doubt I'll watch any of the first 30 years with grainy, black and white footage, and of coaches and players that I have no knowledge.

Even the last 19 years that VT has been in the conference, VT hasn't made the finals so I doubt they'll be featured much.

I'll probably watch it from a historical perspective. I want to learn about some of the old history so I can better understand a few of the old timer's rants here.

It hasn't been mentioned yet but the ACC has 2 teams in the rankings this week.
Wake Forest squeaked into the Coaches poll at #25.
Notre Dame and Miami are receiving votes.

Duke and........Notre Dame are tied for first place in the ACC regular standings with a 9-3 conference record.

UVa is making a run. Two game ACC winning streak...best of the season.

(02-07-2022 02:20 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(02-06-2022 10:20 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

I'd be more interested in the last 20 years. I doubt I'll watch any of the first 30 years with grainy, black and white footage, and of coaches and players that I have no knowledge.

Even the last 19 years that VT has been in the conference, VT hasn't made the finals so I doubt they'll be featured much.

The SoCon played a tournament to decide the champion from 1921


In 1932 it was a 16 team tournemnt played in Atlanta. When the 13 SEC schools pulled out it became an 8 to 11 team tournement played in Raleigh or Durham
It's important to contextualize the ACC Tournament knowing that it was nothing new per se.

You can follow it year by year on wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_South...Tournament

In 1939 11 teams played, in 1948 10 teams of 16 played, and in 1953 8 of 17

In 48 for example Wake Forest, NC State, UNC, Duke, MD, SC, VT, Davidson, William and Mary, and George Washington made up the field.

Richmond, Davidson, William and Mary, GW, Washington and Lee, Furman, and the Citadel would make the tournament each about every third year, but the Semi Finals and Finals were almost always a Big 4 affair. The exception to this was Washington and Lee who had a great basketball program in the 1930's.

Anyway W&L made the semis and the finals in 34, 35, 36, and 37. GW, Davidson, and the Citadel made the semis and finals in 1944. 1949 was the last year that one of those left behind made the semis and the finals.

The thing that made the ACC Tournament so important was that it was used to send the ACC team to the growing NCAA Tournament. Most leagues sent their regular season winner.

(02-08-2022 03:01 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-07-2022 02:20 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(02-06-2022 10:20 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

I'd be more interested in the last 20 years. I doubt I'll watch any of the first 30 years with grainy, black and white footage, and of coaches and players that I have no knowledge.

Even the last 19 years that VT has been in the conference, VT hasn't made the finals so I doubt they'll be featured much.

The SoCon played a tournament to decide the champion from 1921


In 1932 it was a 16 team tournemnt played in Atlanta. When the 13 SEC schools pulled out it became an 8 to 11 team tournement played in Raleigh or Durham
It's important to contextualize the ACC Tournament knowing that it was nothing new per se.

You can follow it year by year on wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_South...Tournament

In 1939 11 teams played, in 1948 10 teams of 16 played, and in 1953 8 of 17

In 48 for example Wake Forest, NC State, UNC, Duke, MD, SC, VT, Davidson, William and Mary, and George Washington made up the field.

Richmond, Davidson, William and Mary, GW, Washington and Lee, Furman, and the Citadel would make the tournament each about every third year, but the Semi Finals and Finals were almost always a Big 4 affair. The exception to this was Washington and Lee who had a great basketball program in the 1930's.

Anyway W&L made the semis and the finals in 34, 35, 36, and 37. GW, Davidson, and the Citadel made the semis and finals in 1944. 1949 was the last year that one of those left behind made the semis and the finals.

The thing that made the ACC Tournament so important was that it was used to send the ACC team to the growing NCAA Tournament. Most leagues sent their regular season winner.

John Wooden once told an ACC coach that he didn’t understand why the ACC held a tournament to select its NCAA representative. “All you’re doing is building up your conference.”

(02-08-2022 06:47 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(02-08-2022 03:01 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-07-2022 02:20 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(02-06-2022 10:20 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

I'd be more interested in the last 20 years. I doubt I'll watch any of the first 30 years with grainy, black and white footage, and of coaches and players that I have no knowledge.

Even the last 19 years that VT has been in the conference, VT hasn't made the finals so I doubt they'll be featured much.

The SoCon played a tournament to decide the champion from 1921


In 1932 it was a 16 team tournemnt played in Atlanta. When the 13 SEC schools pulled out it became an 8 to 11 team tournement played in Raleigh or Durham
It's important to contextualize the ACC Tournament knowing that it was nothing new per se.

You can follow it year by year on wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_South...Tournament

In 1939 11 teams played, in 1948 10 teams of 16 played, and in 1953 8 of 17

In 48 for example Wake Forest, NC State, UNC, Duke, MD, SC, VT, Davidson, William and Mary, and George Washington made up the field.

Richmond, Davidson, William and Mary, GW, Washington and Lee, Furman, and the Citadel would make the tournament each about every third year, but the Semi Finals and Finals were almost always a Big 4 affair. The exception to this was Washington and Lee who had a great basketball program in the 1930's.

Anyway W&L made the semis and the finals in 34, 35, 36, and 37. GW, Davidson, and the Citadel made the semis and finals in 1944. 1949 was the last year that one of those left behind made the semis and the finals.

The thing that made the ACC Tournament so important was that it was used to send the ACC team to the growing NCAA Tournament. Most leagues sent their regular season winner.

John Wooden once told an ACC coach that he didn’t understand why the ACC held a tournament to select its NCAA representative. “All you’re doing is building up your conference.”

Wooden was a cheater. Sam Gilbert says hello from Hell.

Before 1950 the NIT and NCAA tournaments were competing post season events. For much of the period between 38 and 50 the superior tournament was the NIT. The Southern Conference did not get an auto bid to the NCAA until 1950 so from 1938 to 1949 the NCAA or NIT invited who they wanted - usually the regular season leader, not necessarily to Southern Conference Champion. When the NCAA set auto bids, the SoCon designated the tournament winner because there were 16 soon to be 17 in the conference. When the small schools plus VT and WVa were kicked to the curb the ACC made no change in the way the champion or NCAA bid were determined because by 1953 the Southern Conference Tournament was so popular and brought in money to Raleigh and Durham. Remember WF was located just north of Raleigh and just east of Durham until 1956.

Hey schmolik, any word on Nova getting a big boy football stadium so we can replace Louisville?

(02-06-2022 10:20 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  How interested are we in the ACCN series on the history of the ACC Tournament? Is that only an “old ACC” thing? Maybe mostly an NC thing? I suppose you’d be more interested if your team has won it but, one of the more memorable games in tournament history (1995) involved Clemson and the Tigers have yet to win the tournament.

It is amazing. The characters were unlike anywhere else. Phenomenal documentary so far.

Duke, Notre Dame, Wake, Miami, Virginia, Carolina, and Syracuse could ALL be dancing this season.

Virginia Tech can get hot. NC State I don’t understand.

(02-08-2022 07:48 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Before 1950 the NIT and NCAA tournaments were competing post season events. For much of the period between 38 and 50 the superior tournament was the NIT. The Southern Conference did not get an auto bid to the NCAA until 1950 so from 1938 to 1949 the NCAA or NIT invited who they wanted - usually the regular season leader, not necessarily to Southern Conference Champion. When the NCAA set auto bids, the SoCon designated the tournament winner because there were 16 soon to be 17 in the conference. When the small schools plus VT and WVa were kicked to the curb the ACC made no change in the way the champion or NCAA bid were determined because by 1953 the Southern Conference Tournament was so popular and brought in money to Raleigh and Durham. Remember WF was located just north of Raleigh and just east of Durham until 1956.

In 1938, there was no NCAA tournament. Over the next decade, which tournament was more prestigious or produced the greater champion in the overlapping years is somewhat debatable and the debate fueled not by a little bit of retroactive nostalgia.

In the beginning starting in 1939, the NCAA took one team from each of 8 regions. Teams could compete in both tournaments. The 1940 NIT Champ finished 4th in the NCAA. From 1943 to 1945, a Red Cross charity game was held between the champion of the NIT and NCAA tournaments. The NCAA champ swept all three. CCNY unified the title in 1950 and soon thereafter the NCAA passed a rule you couldn't compete in both tournaments. By 1951, conference champions earned automatic NCAA bids and the NIT was effectively finished as a competitor.

In the 40s, there was some preference for some teams to go to Madison Square Garden for recruiting purposes, but the NCAA also staged there starting in '43 through 1950 with the exception of '49. But there's not a lot of objective evidence the NIT was actually the "superior" tournament or produced the "superior" champion, admittedly perhaps two different concepts. As far as champions, the only objective mathematical ranking published, SI's Premo-Poretta Power Poll, has only 2 NIT champions ranked over the NCAA champ (1939 & 1941), yet the NCAA is ranked over the NIT champ in '40, '42, '43, '44, '45, '46, '47, and '48. Premo-Poretta doesn't consider the issue after that when the AP poll started. The #1 AP team won the tourney in 1949, and CCNY unified the title in 1950. In 1951, conference automatic qualifiers were instituted as mentioned above. The Helms Foundation retroactively selected only the NIT champ in 1949.

So really, there is no doubt about the NIT in 1938, because it was the only tourney, and there is really no doubt about '43, '44, and '45, because there was a defacto national title game. The only objective arguments for the NIT champs being the best are for '39 and '41 supported by Premo-Poretta and maybe '49 by Helms.

(02-08-2022 10:49 PM)esayem Wrote:  Hey schmolik, any word on Nova getting a big boy football stadium so we can replace Louisville Wake Forest or Duke?

FIFY