(02-03-2022 10:09 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(02-03-2022 10:06 PM)7huskie6 Wrote:  

(02-03-2022 08:50 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the ESPN deal has brought more attention to NIU football than an NBC Chicago deal could ever bring for Valley schools.

Agreed but it pi**es me off to no end to have them on local tv all the time. We're an hour west.

Most Chicagoans have ESPN, so we're on their TV's as well, no?

Computers (most often)

(02-03-2022 06:52 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  I have always thought that the MVC would be a great partner school for the MAC to create a conference challenge for basketball.

Perhaps a challenge with the Horizon would not be too bad, even without UIC. I agree MVC will probably not want it, and OVC is too shaky. Horizon membership includes Cleveland State, Wright State, Detroit Mercy, UW-Milwaukee, UW-Green Bay, Youngstown State, IUPUI, Purdue-Fort Wayne, Oakland, Northern Kentucky, and did I forget someone(?).

As for Chicago media, I wonder how much effect ESPN's control of content has on the "after" market, i.e., sports reports and highlights after an event is over. Again, we don't know what the contract says about that. And how much promotion does ESPN carry/allow of an individual school? Again, I'll wager the ESPN contract restricts any local media deals.

Regardless, UIC joining the MVC will give them a bigger bite of Chicago sports media, though they face the same pro sports/Notre Dame/Big10/DePaul/Loyola competition. The MVC will now have UIC, Valparaiso and Illinois State, plus that NBC Chicago production link.

Finally (for now), let's be honest: NIU sports has been pretty bleh in recent years ... we get some uptick from football, a brief flash from the Burno-DePaul connection, soccer title, but consistently? Not so much over recent years. Made-up example: one of our bball teams gets into the NCAA tournament = Chicago media coverage. Do that 2-3 years in a row and the media will be back. Don't do anything for number of years and they forget NIU exists. UIC is getting a ton just by joining the MVC.

(02-04-2022 01:58 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-03-2022 06:52 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  I have always thought that the MVC would be a great partner school for the MAC to create a conference challenge for basketball.

Perhaps a challenge with the Horizon would not be too bad, even without UIC. I agree MVC will probably not want it, and OVC is too shaky. Horizon membership includes Cleveland State, Wright State, Detroit Mercy, UW-Milwaukee, UW-Green Bay, Youngstown State, IUPUI, Purdue-Fort Wayne, Oakland, Northern Kentucky, and did I forget someone(?).

As for Chicago media, I wonder how much effect ESPN's control of content has on the "after" market, i.e., sports reports and highlights after an event is over. Again, we don't know what the contract says about that. And how much promotion does ESPN carry/allow of an individual school? Again, I'll wager the ESPN contract restricts any local media deals.

Regardless, UIC joining the MVC will give them a bigger bite of Chicago sports media, though they face the same pro sports/Notre Dame/Big10/DePaul/Loyola competition. The MVC will now have UIC, Valparaiso and Illinois State, plus that NBC Chicago production link.

Finally (for now), let's be honest: NIU sports has been pretty bleh in recent years ... we get some uptick from football, a brief flash from the Burno-DePaul connection, soccer title, but consistently? Not so much over recent years. Made-up example: one of our bball teams gets into the NCAA tournament = Chicago media coverage. Do that 2-3 years in a row and the media will be back. Don't do anything for number of years and they forget NIU exists. UIC is getting a ton just by joining the MVC.

The only one you left out was Robert Morris.

But I do agree, as much as we all may not want to accept it, a challenge between the Horizon and the MAC would probably be relatively evenly matched. MAC is probably a little better but not by much.

Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

What this guy said is not wrong. I went to school there for a year and if you wore a UIC shirt on UIC campus you were odd. Decent school, just very minimal school spirit and sports atmosphere

Check out this video....This guy knocks it out!!
"Conference Realignment - UIC to Missouri Valley + Horizon League Expansion" -

Makes a great argument for why MVC was so desperate to get back into Chicago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7uBJaz...nnel=D1360

(02-04-2022 09:18 PM)JB04 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

What this guy said is not wrong. I went to school there for a year and if you wore a UIC shirt on UIC campus you were odd. Decent school, just very minimal school spirit and sports atmosphere

However, the trade wasn't Loyola for UIC. The trade was Loyola for Belmont and Murray State and then they also got UIC which maintained their connection with the city.

The MVC either tread water on the reshuffle or came out ahead considering they replaced 1 really good program with 2, kept Chicago and added Nashville.

Sure, the overall interest in the league in regards to Chicago went down, but let's be honest, few in the city pay any attention to Loyola outside of the NCAA tournament. They get some attention but are completely overshadowed by Notre Dame and all of the B1G schools in the 4 or 5 state region.

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

(02-04-2022 10:00 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Check out this video....This guy knocks it out!!
"Conference Realignment - UIC to Missouri Valley + Horizon League Expansion" -

Makes a great argument for why MVC was so desperate to get back into Chicago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7uBJaz...nnel=D1360

Lots of really good information in that video.

I also didn't realize Chicago State dropped baseball but I think I remember something about it being discussed here (I guess I just wiped it out of my memory because them dropping the sport makes total sense).

It's also a shame their defunct baseball program has a much...MUCH nicer baseball facility than NIU.

(02-04-2022 11:02 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

Eh...

The MVC is a basketball conference, whereas the MAC is football focused. People still like football more than basketball, and that matters.

Yeah...MVC has football but its FCS and that matters. Also, UIC doesn't have, and will never have, football.

(02-04-2022 11:21 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:02 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

Eh...

The MVC is a basketball conference, whereas the MAC is football focused. People still like football more than basketball, and that matters.

Yeah...MVC has football but its FCS and that matters. Also, UIC doesn't have, and will never have, football.

Remember when UIC had a Hockey Program? Unfortunately, did not work well for them. I wonder if there was a hockey program today and with the regentrification of the near West Side, if the program would have had a better fan draw ( Assuming Beer sales were available). It would be hell of a lot cheaper than going to a Hawks game.

(02-04-2022 11:21 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:02 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

Eh...

The MVC is a basketball conference, whereas the MAC is football focused. People still like football more than basketball, and that matters.

Yeah...MVC has football but its FCS and that matters. Also, UIC doesn't have, and will never have, football.

I must be missing something. I never suggested UIC start up football and join the MVFC. Of course they won't. I was talking bball. And while football is the top in the MAC, not building up everything else is dangerous to the MAC's future.

The P5 seems to be going semi-pro, there may be a P5 separation from everybody else, the NCAA is fading as a governing body for college sports, the P5 is proposing to have conferences management rule/violation enforcement (think fox-henhouse), the transfer portal was created by and for the P5, and NIL/pay-for-play will be largely the purview of the P5, which has the resources for it.

And, yes, people still like football more than bball ... except it's not always football season. Look what happened to NIU when MBB was left to flounder for 10 years.

(02-05-2022 04:38 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:21 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:02 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

Eh...

The MVC is a basketball conference, whereas the MAC is football focused. People still like football more than basketball, and that matters.

Yeah...MVC has football but its FCS and that matters. Also, UIC doesn't have, and will never have, football.

I must be missing something. I never suggested UIC start up football and join the MVFC. Of course they won't. I was talking bball. And while football is the top in the MAC, not building up everything else is dangerous to the MAC's future.

The P5 seems to be going semi-pro, there may be a P5 separation from everybody else, the NCAA is fading as a governing body for college sports, the P5 is proposing to have conferences management rule/violation enforcement (think fox-henhouse), the transfer portal was created by and for the P5, and NIL/pay-for-play will be largely the purview of the P5, which has the resources for it.

And, yes, people still like football more than bball ... except it's not always football season. Look what happened to NIU when MBB was left to flounder for 10 years.

Yeah, I didn't communicate well.

I guess my point was that moving down a notch or whatever in the mid-major basketball ranks isn't all that big of a deal. There's basically a big blob of interchanging parts once you get below that group of "mid-major" basketball conferences that aren't technically in the Power conferences but kind of tiptoe in and out of that conversation (AAC, Big East, Mountain West, WCC [which is in reality, one ridiculously great team and then two pretty good teams and then basically average to nothing the rest of the way], A-10).

After that, its all basically a bunch of 1 bid conferences and they kind of cycle about for superiority. Until you get down to conferences like the MEAC, Big South, WAC (before the expansion but maybe even still since they're losing New Mexico State and Sam Houston State), SWAC, Southland, etc.

So, yeah, I didn't articulate it but the overall idea was that a rebranded MVC doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things in regards to the MAC. Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose).

(02-05-2022 10:01 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-05-2022 04:38 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:21 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 11:02 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-04-2022 09:04 PM)Huskie D Wrote:  Let's be honest - UIC is a men's bball school only, and a fairly irrelevant one at that. The school garners minimal sports media coverage. Loyola leaving and UIC joining is not a net gain for the MVC. I've gone to bbal games at both Loyola and UIC - If you think our attendance is poor, go to a UIC game!

I went on Milwaukee and Green Bays Boards - They are concerned with no Chicago presence in the HL. If you think the MAC is weak, HL is worse.

Made me think when I was on Milwaukee's board...Not a bad move for them to join the MAC (no chance that they'd have football so that could be a non starter). We play them already in a few sports. They would be the closest conference school for us. Academically they are on par with us and the other MAC schools.

Some general observations:
--- IF!!!! the MAC were to expand without football being the big concern (which I seriously doubt), UW-Milwaukee and either Southern Indiana (USI) or Northern Kentucky would be ideal adds. Just an opine, not a suggestion.
--- As for Chicago State, they are looking at starting football. It would be cheaper to start baseball and that would boost the Horizon's interest.
--- USI will be a Horizon target.
--- UIC's athletic program was not the target. The Chicago market was the MVC's target.
--- However, the MVC could be a refresher for the Flames that will boost their attitude and their efforts. Likewise, adding UIC could result in an MVC push in Chicago for the whole conference.

Change can provide the impetus/energy for renewed effort ... excitement, news value, promotions, etc. Compare this to the same-old same=old MAC.

What all this means I have no idea. However, this does not bode well for whatever "presence" NIU and the MAC have/want in Chicago. A rebuilt/rebuilding MVC could push the MAC down in the ranks of bball mid-majors.

Eh...

The MVC is a basketball conference, whereas the MAC is football focused. People still like football more than basketball, and that matters.

Yeah...MVC has football but its FCS and that matters. Also, UIC doesn't have, and will never have, football.

I must be missing something. I never suggested UIC start up football and join the MVFC. Of course they won't. I was talking bball. And while football is the top in the MAC, not building up everything else is dangerous to the MAC's future.

The P5 seems to be going semi-pro, there may be a P5 separation from everybody else, the NCAA is fading as a governing body for college sports, the P5 is proposing to have conferences management rule/violation enforcement (think fox-henhouse), the transfer portal was created by and for the P5, and NIL/pay-for-play will be largely the purview of the P5, which has the resources for it.

And, yes, people still like football more than bball ... except it's not always football season. Look what happened to NIU when MBB was left to flounder for 10 years.

Yeah, I didn't communicate well.

I guess my point was that moving down a notch or whatever in the mid-major basketball ranks isn't all that big of a deal. There's basically a big blob of interchanging parts once you get below that group of "mid-major" basketball conferences that aren't technically in the Power conferences but kind of tiptoe in and out of that conversation (AAC, Big East, Mountain West, WCC [which is in reality, one ridiculously great team and then two pretty good teams and then basically average to nothing the rest of the way], A-10).

After that, its all basically a bunch of 1 bid conferences and they kind of cycle about for superiority. Until you get down to conferences like the MEAC, Big South, WAC (before the expansion but maybe even still since they're losing New Mexico State and Sam Houston State), SWAC, Southland, etc.

So, yeah, I didn't articulate it but the overall idea was that a rebranded MVC doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things in regards to the MAC. Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose).

One other thing...

While getting back into (or staying in) Chicago was really important to the MVC (for a lot of reasons), that conference is headquartered in St. Louis and they hold their championship ship there as well.

This is never going to be a Chicago-centric conference and they're never going to host their conference tournament here.

That chained posting was getting way too long for me ...

We agree on this as you said: "Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose)."

The MVC had a rep for being a two-bid conference, and the addition of UIC gives them the marketing/p.r./production opportunity work up to that again. I don't think that building up bball is going to take anything away from football, so I agree the MAC is making a mistake. NCAA tourney credits have value. Also, the point I was making is that the MVC now has a reason to push for more attention in the Chicago market. More for them is less for us.

Being a two-bid conference is a major goal ...I do not believe it takes anything away from football. All those conferences you named, and a bunch more, get their one auto bid every year. For the most part, the only cycling they do is for that one bid. IMO, settling for one bid is dumb. Likewise, ceding any share of a major market -- however small -- to someone else is equally dumb.

(02-05-2022 10:40 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  That chained posting was getting way too long for me ...

We agree on this as you said: "Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose)."

The MVC had a rep for being a two-bid conference, and the addition of UIC gives them the marketing/p.r./production opportunity work up to that again. I don't think that building up bball is going to take anything away from football, so I agree the MAC is making a mistake. NCAA tourney credits have value. Also, the point I was making is that the MVC now has a reason to push for more attention in the Chicago market. More for them is less for us.

Being a two-bid conference is a major goal ...I do not believe it takes anything away from football. All those conferences you named, and a bunch more, get their one auto bid every year. For the most part, the only cycling they do is for that one bid. IMO, settling for one bid is dumb. Likewise, ceding any share of a major market -- however small -- to someone else is equally dumb.

I totally get your point. I guess it's just shades of grey where I see it slightly differently.

I don't see UIC (either in the Horizon or the MVC) taking any substantial or fractional attention away from NIU. If one of them does well and goes dancing, they'll get attention. Otherwise, they get no pub.

I will way, as will be constructed, the MVC has a real good shot at returning to the 2-bid conference soon. And that's basically based on the additions (namely, Belmont and Murray State). But Missouri State is on the rise and will compete for the top spots. Drake is always in the conversation (they're like the Saint Mary's of the MVC...always around but typically not quite good enough to be the top dog). Theoretically, SIU and ISU should compete in that league. Probably Bradley too, but they typically they struggle.

That conference provides real good competition with only a couple also-rans.

It wouldn't surprise me if UIC starts to compete in that league. They have the money and facilities. They just need to utilize their resources.

You could realistically see Belmont, Murray State, Drake, Missouri State be the top horses with Northern Iowa (I keep forgetting about them) and UIC being in a tier that competes year after year.

I see it as a better version of what the Ohio Valley was up until a year or so ago with Austin Peay, Jacksonville State, and Morehead State pushing Murray State and Belmont each year.

Man oh man has the OVC dropped off a cliff. They're soon going to be Morehead State and a bunch of Tennessee garbage.

(02-05-2022 12:54 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-05-2022 10:40 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  That chained posting was getting way too long for me ...

We agree on this as you said: "Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose)."

The MVC had a rep for being a two-bid conference, and the addition of UIC gives them the marketing/p.r./production opportunity work up to that again. I don't think that building up bball is going to take anything away from football, so I agree the MAC is making a mistake. NCAA tourney credits have value. Also, the point I was making is that the MVC now has a reason to push for more attention in the Chicago market. More for them is less for us.

Being a two-bid conference is a major goal ...I do not believe it takes anything away from football. All those conferences you named, and a bunch more, get their one auto bid every year. For the most part, the only cycling they do is for that one bid. IMO, settling for one bid is dumb. Likewise, ceding any share of a major market -- however small -- to someone else is equally dumb.

I totally get your point. I guess it's just shades of grey where I see it slightly differently.

I don't see UIC (either in the Horizon or the MVC) taking any substantial or fractional attention away from NIU. If one of them does well and goes dancing, they'll get attention. Otherwise, they get no pub.

I will way, as will be constructed, the MVC has a real good shot at returning to the 2-bid conference soon. And that's basically based on the additions (namely, Belmont and Murray State). But Missouri State is on the rise and will compete for the top spots. Drake is always in the conversation (they're like the Saint Mary's of the MVC...always around but typically not quite good enough to be the top dog). Theoretically, SIU and ISU should compete in that league. Probably Bradley too, but they typically they struggle.

That conference provides real good competition with only a couple also-rans.

It wouldn't surprise me if UIC starts to compete in that league. They have the money and facilities. They just need to utilize their resources.

You could realistically see Belmont, Murray State, Drake, Missouri State be the top horses with Northern Iowa (I keep forgetting about them) and UIC being in a tier that competes year after year.

I see it as a better version of what the Ohio Valley was up until a year or so ago with Austin Peay, Jacksonville State, and Morehead State pushing Murray State and Belmont each year.

Man oh man has the OVC dropped off a cliff. They're soon going to be Morehead State and a bunch of Tennessee garbage.

No way those new teams get MVC back to two bids. Nice additions, but they are not Wichita State, Creighton, and Loyola.

(02-05-2022 01:22 PM)HuskieJ Wrote:  

(02-05-2022 12:54 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(02-05-2022 10:40 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  That chained posting was getting way too long for me ...

We agree on this as you said: "Especially as long as the MAC is going to not put any more importance in it's basketball standing (which I've thought for a long time is a mistake, but it's one the conference is making on purpose)."

The MVC had a rep for being a two-bid conference, and the addition of UIC gives them the marketing/p.r./production opportunity work up to that again. I don't think that building up bball is going to take anything away from football, so I agree the MAC is making a mistake. NCAA tourney credits have value. Also, the point I was making is that the MVC now has a reason to push for more attention in the Chicago market. More for them is less for us.

Being a two-bid conference is a major goal ...I do not believe it takes anything away from football. All those conferences you named, and a bunch more, get their one auto bid every year. For the most part, the only cycling they do is for that one bid. IMO, settling for one bid is dumb. Likewise, ceding any share of a major market -- however small -- to someone else is equally dumb.

I totally get your point. I guess it's just shades of grey where I see it slightly differently.

I don't see UIC (either in the Horizon or the MVC) taking any substantial or fractional attention away from NIU. If one of them does well and goes dancing, they'll get attention. Otherwise, they get no pub.

I will way, as will be constructed, the MVC has a real good shot at returning to the 2-bid conference soon. And that's basically based on the additions (namely, Belmont and Murray State). But Missouri State is on the rise and will compete for the top spots. Drake is always in the conversation (they're like the Saint Mary's of the MVC...always around but typically not quite good enough to be the top dog). Theoretically, SIU and ISU should compete in that league. Probably Bradley too, but they typically they struggle.

That conference provides real good competition with only a couple also-rans.

It wouldn't surprise me if UIC starts to compete in that league. They have the money and facilities. They just need to utilize their resources.

You could realistically see Belmont, Murray State, Drake, Missouri State be the top horses with Northern Iowa (I keep forgetting about them) and UIC being in a tier that competes year after year.

I see it as a better version of what the Ohio Valley was up until a year or so ago with Austin Peay, Jacksonville State, and Morehead State pushing Murray State and Belmont each year.

Man oh man has the OVC dropped off a cliff. They're soon going to be Morehead State and a bunch of Tennessee garbage.

No way those new teams get MVC back to two bids. Nice additions, but they are not Wichita State, Creighton, and Loyola.

True.

Speaking of Wichita State...woof.

Oh my how the mighty have fallen.

Either way, yeah...nothing automatic about Belmont and Murray State but they'll typically compete for two bids.

The MVC got 2 bids last year with Loyola and Drake. They basically lost 1 at large contending program, gained 2 others and added a crap program because they’re in Chicago and well funded. It’s a wash to slightly ahead.

(02-06-2022 08:16 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The MVC got 2 bids last year with Loyola and Drake. They basically lost 1 at large contending program, gained 2 others and added a crap program because they’re in Chicago and well funded. It’s a wash to slightly ahead.

You need to throw out last year. Too much upheaval and MVC got extremely lucky with two bids. Not going to happen again for a very long time. MVC is not a 2 bid league once again. Not by a long shot.