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Really enjoyed this piece on Marvin Lewis and the comments from Willie Anderson. Also Darren Simmons had some comments on coaching under Marvin and Zac Taylor (thought he was complimentary of both).

https://sports.yahoo.com/marvin-lewis-wo...53710.html

Quote:Frank Schwab
Frank Schwab
Tue, February 1, 2022, 9:05 AM·5 min read
In this article:

Cincinnati Bengals
Cincinnati Bengals
Feb 13, 6:30 PMvsLAR
Marvin Lewis
Marvin Lewis
American football coach

Willie Anderson
American football player, offensive lineman, tackle

Marvin Lewis won't pat himself on the back. Every time the question is asked — how much credit should Lewis get for helping the Cincinnati Bengals on a winning path, one that led to Super Bowl LVI? — he chuckles uncomfortably.

"I'm not taking credit for that. That's not my place," Lewis, the Bengals head coach from 2003-18, said in a phone interview. "What they did is about them and their hard work."

Willie Anderson predicted that would be Lewis' reaction. The Bengals' longtime offensive tackle and finalist this year for the Pro Football Hall of Fame said his old coach would be too humble to place himself in the middle of the Bengals' incredible season. Anderson was with the Bengals before Lewis took over in 2003. They were the laughingstock of the NFL before Lewis got there. Anderson then played five seasons under Lewis and knows the work he put in to turn around a losing culture.

"Marvin started the new era of the Bengals," said Anderson, a four-time Pro Bowler with Cincinnati from 1996-2007. "Marvin gets nowhere near the credit he deserves. It's a tragedy Marvin isn't coaching in the NFL."

Lewis also wonders why he's not in the NFL. Part of the reason he hasn't received more credit for turning around the Bengals is they couldn't break through and win a playoff game on his watch.

But he changed the Bengals in ways that aren't necessarily reflected in his record, in ways that impacted the franchise on their way to an AFC championship.
Former Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, shown here in 2012, was instrumental in turning around the franchise. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)
Former Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, shown here in 2012, was instrumental in turning around the franchise. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)
Marvin Lewis hoping for another shot

Lewis, 63, hasn't coached in the NFL since the end of the 2018 season. In the Bengals' first 45 seasons, they made the playoffs seven times. In Lewis' 16 seasons, the Bengals made the playoffs seven times.

Lewis went 0-7 in the postseason, though some bad luck didn't help. Carson Palmer blew out his ACL on the first drive of a playoff loss at the end of the 2005 season. Jeremy Hill fumbled late against the Steelers in another playoff game, and what looked like a sure win turned into a loss.

This will be the fourth coaching cycle in which Lewis won't get a second chance to be an NFL head coach.

"I am disappointed, no question," Lewis said. "I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. But I guess that's the way the lord works.

"It is what it is."

Lewis is working for Arizona State as a special adviser to head coach Herman Edwards. It seems someone with his resume — Lewis was a highly successful defensive coordinator before coaching the Bengals, orchestrating the famous 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense — should be in a bigger role somewhere. For now he's working with the Sun Devils, hoping for another shot.

"That's all I can do," Lewis said. "I don't own a team."

Lewis went 131-122-3 for a Bengals franchise that had 11 winning seasons in 45 tries before he got there. It's hard to ignore that Lewis is one of many Black coaches who hasn't gotten a second chance. Many white coaches have rebounded quickly after a first stint that was nowhere near as successful as Lewis' time in Cincinnati. For one example, Vic Fangio had three losing seasons with the Denver Broncos but was interviewed by the Jacksonville Jaguars not long after he was fired. The history for the NFL hiring Black head coaches, in particular ones who are looking for a second opportunity, is disappointing to say the least. Lewis didn't deny it's frustrating.

"The numbers speak for themselves," Lewis said. "It's right there. It's not hard to see there's a disparity."

Lewis will get mentions as the Bengals' unlikely run to the Super Bowl is dissected from all angles. Anderson wanted to make sure Lewis gets his proper due for the franchise's turnaround.
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Lewis won't take any credit

Anderson pushes back on the idea that the Bengals, and team owner Mike Brown in particular, are cheap. He says that hasn't been the case in a while. But he also acknowledges things changed dramatically in 2003, Lewis' first season. Everything about the organization shifted.

Anderson said not only did the Bengals start spending more on free agents, something they'd rarely done, but Lewis pushed the organization to improve across the board. The way the team traveled improved. The way they fed players improved. A new, bigger weight room was built. The Bengals started acting like a big-league organization. Anderson said Lewis was the catalyst in changing Brown's ways.

"He brought us up to standard," Anderson said about Lewis.

I really liked Marvin Lewis. Its a shame they didn't win playoff games with him, but he was successful in what he did.

I wonder if he ever considered the college ranks?

(02-02-2022 01:07 PM)BearcatDave Wrote:  I really liked Marvin Lewis. Its a shame they didn't win playoff games with him, but he was successful in what he did.

I wonder if he ever considered the college ranks?

You do know he's at ASU, right?

I call bull crap on this one. Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with their current success. The organization was going in the wrong direction BECAUSE OF HIM. I'm not arguing the merits of his entire time here, because he did do a lot of good. But he has nothing to do with where they are today. And maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have a job in the NFL, because people in the NFL who are a lot smarter than writers or fans believe that he's not that great of a HC? What a novel thought.

(02-02-2022 03:19 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  I call bull crap on this one. Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with their current success. The organization was going in the wrong direction BECAUSE OF HIM. I'm not arguing the merits of his entire time here, because he did do a lot of good. But he has nothing to do with where they are today. And maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have a job in the NFL, because people in the NFL who are a lot smarter than writers or fans believe that he's not that great of a HC? What a novel thought.

Bingo

The degree of difficulty in getting a team lead by Andy Dalton to the playoffs 5 straight years is undervalued. (Find me another coach with a middle of the league QB that made the playoffs 5 straight seasons with said QB) Not all coaching jobs are created equal. Belichick looks great when he has Brady. He missed the playoffs then lost in the first round his two years without him. Yea when the front office missed on some guys the Bengals faded late in Marvin's tenure (but never bottomed out like they did after he left), but Marvin was a hell of a coach.

Also...people in the NFL hire tons of total failures as head coaches and give up on some damn good ones. Not sure I should be using them as the barometer for Marvin. I do think Marvin's age probably has a lot to do with him not getting a second chance though. Had he been fired right before Dalton, someone would have surely given him another opportunity.

(02-02-2022 04:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The degree of difficulty in getting a team lead by Andy Dalton to the playoffs 5 straight years is undervalued. (Find me another coach with a middle of the league QB that made the playoffs 5 straight seasons with said QB) Not all coaching jobs are created equal. Belichick looks great when he has Brady. He missed the playoffs then lost in the first round his two years without him. Yea when the front office missed on some guys the Bengals faded late in Marvin's tenure (but never bottomed out like they did after he left), but Marvin was a hell of a coach.

Also...people in the NFL hire tons of total failures as head coaches and give up on some damn good ones. Not sure I should be using them as the barometer for Marvin. I do think Marvin's age probably has a lot to do with him not getting a second chance though. Had he been fired right before Dalton, someone would have surely given him another opportunity.

So NOW Dalton was a hindrance instead of an asset?

And when Marvin makes it to 5 straight playoffs, he gets all the credit. But when they "fade", its the front office's fault for missing on guys? Hmmmm....interesting.

Again, point of the article was that he should get some credit for where they are at today. I say bull crap.

(02-02-2022 03:19 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  I call bull crap on this one. Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with their current success. The organization was going in the wrong direction BECAUSE OF HIM. I'm not arguing the merits of his entire time here, because he did do a lot of good. But he has nothing to do with where they are today. And maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have a job in the NFL, because people in the NFL who are a lot smarter than writers or fans believe that he's not that great of a HC? What a novel thought.

You just can't question the decisionmaking of NFL owners and GMs, they are all perfectly fairminded geniuses. That writer/fan Willie Anderson is a moron.

(02-02-2022 03:46 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 03:19 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  I call bull crap on this one. Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with their current success. The organization was going in the wrong direction BECAUSE OF HIM. I'm not arguing the merits of his entire time here, because he did do a lot of good. But he has nothing to do with where they are today. And maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have a job in the NFL, because people in the NFL who are a lot smarter than writers or fans believe that he's not that great of a HC? What a novel thought.

Bingo

zac taylor would have no business coming here if it weren't for marv

(02-02-2022 04:43 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 04:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The degree of difficulty in getting a team lead by Andy Dalton to the playoffs 5 straight years is undervalued. (Find me another coach with a middle of the league QB that made the playoffs 5 straight seasons with said QB) Not all coaching jobs are created equal. Belichick looks great when he has Brady. He missed the playoffs then lost in the first round his two years without him. Yea when the front office missed on some guys the Bengals faded late in Marvin's tenure (but never bottomed out like they did after he left), but Marvin was a hell of a coach.

Also...people in the NFL hire tons of total failures as head coaches and give up on some damn good ones. Not sure I should be using them as the barometer for Marvin. I do think Marvin's age probably has a lot to do with him not getting a second chance though. Had he been fired right before Dalton, someone would have surely given him another opportunity.

So NOW Dalton was a hindrance instead of an asset?

And when Marvin makes it to 5 straight playoffs, he gets all the credit. But when they "fade", its the front office's fault for missing on guys? Hmmmm....interesting.

Again, point of the article was that he should get some credit for where they are at today. I say bull crap.

Nuance continues to escape you as always. Dalton was a serviceable QB that with the right coach and decent talent could win you games. He wasn't the kind of QB you ditched without another QB in mind to take his place, but he was not the kind of QB that could carry a team. When he had a perfect situation in 2015 he was damn near elite. When he had no weapons at the end of 2014, he couldn't do a damn thing. Dalton won a lot of games by being a middle of the league QB and playing for a quality coach that played to his strengths and found a way to win without elite QB play.

Teams that win consistently in this league have elite QB team. Without it, there is a ton of variance. The Dalton Bengals were a HUGE exception to this. Yea...5 straight playoff births with middle of the league QB play is impressive.

(02-03-2022 03:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 04:43 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 04:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The degree of difficulty in getting a team lead by Andy Dalton to the playoffs 5 straight years is undervalued. (Find me another coach with a middle of the league QB that made the playoffs 5 straight seasons with said QB) Not all coaching jobs are created equal. Belichick looks great when he has Brady. He missed the playoffs then lost in the first round his two years without him. Yea when the front office missed on some guys the Bengals faded late in Marvin's tenure (but never bottomed out like they did after he left), but Marvin was a hell of a coach.

Also...people in the NFL hire tons of total failures as head coaches and give up on some damn good ones. Not sure I should be using them as the barometer for Marvin. I do think Marvin's age probably has a lot to do with him not getting a second chance though. Had he been fired right before Dalton, someone would have surely given him another opportunity.

So NOW Dalton was a hindrance instead of an asset?

And when Marvin makes it to 5 straight playoffs, he gets all the credit. But when they "fade", its the front office's fault for missing on guys? Hmmmm....interesting.

Again, point of the article was that he should get some credit for where they are at today. I say bull crap.

Nuance continues to escape you as always. Dalton was a serviceable QB that with the right coach and decent talent could win you games. He wasn't the kind of QB you ditched without another QB in mind to take his place, but he was not the kind of QB that could carry a team. When he had a perfect situation in 2015 he was damn near elite. When he had no weapons at the end of 2014, he couldn't do a damn thing. Dalton won a lot of games by being a middle of the league QB and playing for a quality coach that played to his strengths and found a way to win without elite QB play.

Teams that win consistently in this league have elite QB team. Without it, there is a ton of variance. The Dalton Bengals were a HUGE exception to this. Yea...5 straight playoff births with middle of the league QB play is impressive.

All I can say is WOW. You literally just echoed most of the points I'VE made to YOU over the years as examples of why Dalton was an average QB. I can't/won't argue those points one bit. I guess we finally agree about Dalton?!

(02-03-2022 04:45 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(02-03-2022 03:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 04:43 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 04:19 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The degree of difficulty in getting a team lead by Andy Dalton to the playoffs 5 straight years is undervalued. (Find me another coach with a middle of the league QB that made the playoffs 5 straight seasons with said QB) Not all coaching jobs are created equal. Belichick looks great when he has Brady. He missed the playoffs then lost in the first round his two years without him. Yea when the front office missed on some guys the Bengals faded late in Marvin's tenure (but never bottomed out like they did after he left), but Marvin was a hell of a coach.

Also...people in the NFL hire tons of total failures as head coaches and give up on some damn good ones. Not sure I should be using them as the barometer for Marvin. I do think Marvin's age probably has a lot to do with him not getting a second chance though. Had he been fired right before Dalton, someone would have surely given him another opportunity.

So NOW Dalton was a hindrance instead of an asset?

And when Marvin makes it to 5 straight playoffs, he gets all the credit. But when they "fade", its the front office's fault for missing on guys? Hmmmm....interesting.

Again, point of the article was that he should get some credit for where they are at today. I say bull crap.

Nuance continues to escape you as always. Dalton was a serviceable QB that with the right coach and decent talent could win you games. He wasn't the kind of QB you ditched without another QB in mind to take his place, but he was not the kind of QB that could carry a team. When he had a perfect situation in 2015 he was damn near elite. When he had no weapons at the end of 2014, he couldn't do a damn thing. Dalton won a lot of games by being a middle of the league QB and playing for a quality coach that played to his strengths and found a way to win without elite QB play.

Teams that win consistently in this league have elite QB team. Without it, there is a ton of variance. The Dalton Bengals were a HUGE exception to this. Yea...5 straight playoff births with middle of the league QB play is impressive.

All I can say is WOW. You literally just echoed most of the points I'VE made to YOU over the years as examples of why Dalton was an average QB. I can't/won't argue those points one bit. I guess we finally agree about Dalton?!

Lol.. uh no. I was very consistent that Dalton was a middle of the league starter. Just didn't pretend he was this abysmal bum.

I like(d) Marv.

I see his time at Cincy to be comparable to Mick’s time at UC.

Both did an outstanding job lifting their teams out of the cellar and in to respectable programs.

Neither could get over that final hump of going from good to great.

Mick left when his UC program was plateaued.

Marv was fired a few years after the plateau, when his team was clearly on the decline.

I was a big dalton fan, and was excited to see what he could do at Dallas with better overall talent.

I thought he was a threat to displace Dak.

Then when Dak got injured and Dalton became the starter, he looked horrible, and showed himself to be middle of the road, at best.

Texans hire Lovie Smith as Head Coach. He's the same age as Marvin Lewis.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3323...head-coach

(02-07-2022 10:20 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Texans hire Lovie Smith as Head Coach. He's the same age as Marvin Lewis.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3323...head-coach

Why not Jennifer King?