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Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
Texas State can look anyway they want. The MWC is never going to call them.
01-25-2022 01:04 PM
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Cruhawk Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
- Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.
- Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).
01-25-2022 01:09 PM
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dawgonit Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
They don't only seem uninterested, they've already stated it. There is not interest and they've been passed over twice. I like geographic compact conferences with similar institutions and I think NMSU and UTEP would be perfect fits in the MWC but unfortunately that's not how the CFB world works.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.

Well Sam Houston is now officially moving to FBS so there is that option. It would be a horrible pair though if the MWC is looking to get into Texas. Those two programs do have history together so there is that.

As for it's market, it's not technically in a huge market but it is located in commuting distance between two huge markets of Texas and in a big recruiting area so it does have that going for it.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).

While Montana and Montana St fit in the geographic area, why would they take those two over UTEP and MTSU? If going for "football product overall" from FCS why not offer football only membership to NDSU and SDSU then? I don't see the population of Montana booming enough to really make it attractive based on that criteria.
01-25-2022 01:36 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
- Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.
- Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).

The thing is, I'm not sure there's any good reason for them to expand (short of Gonzaga changing their mind). Their football games are mostly (I think almost all) televised between Fox and CBS, and adding any inventory that isn't relatively premium for a G-level conference, like SMU, isn't going to improve that situation.
01-25-2022 01:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
If I’m Texas St, I’m not wedded to the SBC. If the MWC or AAC ever came calling, I’d jump.
01-25-2022 01:51 PM
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Cruhawk Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 01:43 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
- Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.
- Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).

The thing is, I'm not sure there's any good reason for them to expand (short of Gonzaga changing their mind). Their football games are mostly (I think almost all) televised between Fox and CBS, and adding any inventory that isn't relatively premium for a G-level conference, like SMU, isn't going to improve that situation.

Thats my thought process as well. If they add new football members in the future, I think it will be to backfill for schools like Boise State/Colorado State/Utah State/or San Diego State leaving for either the Big XII or the Pac-12. And even then I think they would prefer to take Montana+Montana State as full MWC members since they both do have some FCS clout and fit the geographic footprint of the conference vs NDSU + SDSU for football-only or UTEP+NMSU.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2022 03:09 PM by Cruhawk.)
01-25-2022 03:07 PM
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Cruhawk Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 01:36 PM)dawgonit Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
They don't only seem uninterested, they've already stated it. There is not interest and they've been passed over twice. I like geographic compact conferences with similar institutions and I think NMSU and UTEP would be perfect fits in the MWC but unfortunately that's not how the CFB world works.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.

Well Sam Houston is now officially moving to FBS so there is that option. It would be a horrible pair though if the MWC is looking to get into Texas. Those two programs do have history together so there is that.

As for it's market, it's not technically in a huge market but it is located in commuting distance between two huge markets of Texas and in a big recruiting area so it does have that going for it.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).

While Montana and Montana St fit in the geographic area, why would they take those two over UTEP and MTSU? If going for "football product overall" from FCS why not offer football only membership to NDSU and SDSU then? I don't see the population of Montana booming enough to really make it attractive based on that criteria.

No argument for points 1 and 2.

For point 3: at least the Montana schools have some football "clout" and some brand recognition beyond their home state as FCS powers (ala App State, JMU, Ga Sou, SHSU, etc.) and have better football cultures/traditions than UTEP and NMSU do ("Brawl of the Wild" would be a hell of a conference rivalry for the MWC to market to audiences), especially relevant considering that football usually drives the bus in realignment.

They would still fit the Geographic profile of the conference (compared to the Dakota Schools anyway) with Wyoming and Utah State relatively close by as division rivals even if Boise State/Colorado State were gone too. Montana is also slightly less then double Wyoming's population as a point of comparison as well, so I don't think Montana's population would be a deal breaker if maintains even above US-average growth rates, and both programs maintain their prominence.
01-25-2022 03:24 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 03:24 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 01:36 PM)dawgonit Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  The Mountain West doesn't seem to have a ton of options left in terms of expansion:

- They seem uninterested in NMSU and UTEP since NMSU doesn't bring a new state and UTEP might as well be in New Mexico as far as new markets/recruiting hotbeds go.
They don't only seem uninterested, they've already stated it. There is not interest and they've been passed over twice. I like geographic compact conferences with similar institutions and I think NMSU and UTEP would be perfect fits in the MWC but unfortunately that's not how the CFB world works.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Texas State would be a project since it doesn't have a huge tradition of FBS success or as big of a market to draw from unlike UTSA, plus they would be on an Island since all other FBS Texas schools are in conferences at least as strong as the MWC (if not stronger) so the MWC would have to find a nearby travel partner for them from FCS ranks in Texas.

Well Sam Houston is now officially moving to FBS so there is that option. It would be a horrible pair though if the MWC is looking to get into Texas. Those two programs do have history together so there is that.

As for it's market, it's not technically in a huge market but it is located in commuting distance between two huge markets of Texas and in a big recruiting area so it does have that going for it.

(01-25-2022 01:09 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  - Given the recent success of FCS->FBS transitions for Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina in the Sun Belt, the taboo of adding historically strong FCS programs is somewhat broken, so I think the MWC (if they HAD to backfill for some members) would be more open to offering invitations to both Montana and Montana State as a package deal to ensure a stronger quality of football product overall (Montana may be small, population wise, but it has also been one of the fastest growing states in the US in recent years as well thanks in part to wealthier West Coast/Colorado residents moving in and the rise in popularity of remote working since COVID).

While Montana and Montana St fit in the geographic area, why would they take those two over UTEP and MTSU? If going for "football product overall" from FCS why not offer football only membership to NDSU and SDSU then? I don't see the population of Montana booming enough to really make it attractive based on that criteria.

No argument for points 1 and 2.

For point 3: at least the Montana schools have some football "clout" and some brand recognition beyond their home state as FCS powers (ala App State, JMU, Ga Sou, SHSU, etc.) and have better football cultures/traditions than UTEP and NMSU do ("Brawl of the Wild" would be a hell of a conference rivalry for the MWC to market to audiences), especially relevant considering that football usually drives the bus in realignment.

They would still fit the Geographic profile of the conference (compared to the Dakota Schools anyway) with Wyoming and Utah State relatively close by as division rivals even if Boise State/Colorado State were gone too. Montana is also slightly less then double Wyoming's population as a point of comparison as well, so I don't think Montana's population would be a deal breaker if maintains even above US-average growth rates, and both programs maintain their prominence.

Unless left with no option, the MWC is not expanding from the FCS. By no option, I mean more than 2 schools leave and overtures to current AAC, CUSA, and SBC schools are unsuccessful. In this scenario, New Mexico St and UTEP would be considered.

As I've stated many times here, the preference would be to keep the gang together and add from the AAC (assuming no power schools were coming - e.g. PAC gets picked apart by the B1G and XII leaving Oregon St and Washington). I would add the following from the AAC: Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and Wichita St. That would be a solid 16-school conference differing in many ways from the failed WAC-16.

If, however, expanding from the FCS were seen as unavoidable, the schools that would garner the most interest from the MWC would likely be: Idaho, Montana, Montana St, UC Davis, and Weber St.
01-25-2022 03:52 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
1.) Depending on how the revenue distribution for the expanded CFP shakes out, I could see Army joining a league (Air Force would likely want to play with them) and all 3 service academies could be playing in a 16 team American Conference.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]


2.) If that happens, a spot will open up in the Mountain West and Texas State would be the best fit there. From a branding standpoint it's a seamless fit.

Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada Las Vegas
Nevada Reno
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
Texas State
Utah State
Wyoming

3.) The MWC suffered when they crippled the WAC, since the WAC was their best resource for replenishing members. The AAC grew to 14 to block them from Texas expansion. Montana/Montana State are always call-up options. Nevertheless, the advantage of taking what's left in Texas is it would give the MWC access to better recruiting and bowl options.
01-26-2022 12:26 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-25-2022 10:53 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The MWC's only expansion priority at the moment appears to be courting Gonzaga as a 12th basketball member to balance Hawaii's football-only membership. We know the MWC has approached the Zags in the past, and there's an unconfirmed assertion by an MWC board poster who claims to have contacts in the Gonzaga athletic department that the conference and school are still talking.

With respect to football, I expect the MWC to stand pat unless and until an opportunity comes along to add new members that strengthen both its football competitiveness and marketability. While I've always liked Texas State's long-term potential, the Bobcats still have a long way to go to meet those criteria.

HM, we have had that long-term potential for the last decade, and we are further away than we were a decade ago.
01-26-2022 01:18 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-26-2022 01:18 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 10:53 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The MWC's only expansion priority at the moment appears to be courting Gonzaga as a 12th basketball member to balance Hawaii's football-only membership. We know the MWC has approached the Zags in the past, and there's an unconfirmed assertion by an MWC board poster who claims to have contacts in the Gonzaga athletic department that the conference and school are still talking.

With respect to football, I expect the MWC to stand pat unless and until an opportunity comes along to add new members that strengthen both its football competitiveness and marketability. While I've always liked Texas State's long-term potential, the Bobcats still have a long way to go to meet those criteria.

HM, we have had that long-term potential for the last decade, and we are further away than we were a decade ago.

You need a new AD and entirely new approach to football. Going for a team that is built solely off transfers is a moronic strategy. Spavital must just be lazy to not be pounding the ground for high school guys.
01-26-2022 10:12 AM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-26-2022 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(01-26-2022 01:18 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 10:53 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The MWC's only expansion priority at the moment appears to be courting Gonzaga as a 12th basketball member to balance Hawaii's football-only membership. We know the MWC has approached the Zags in the past, and there's an unconfirmed assertion by an MWC board poster who claims to have contacts in the Gonzaga athletic department that the conference and school are still talking.

With respect to football, I expect the MWC to stand pat unless and until an opportunity comes along to add new members that strengthen both its football competitiveness and marketability. While I've always liked Texas State's long-term potential, the Bobcats still have a long way to go to meet those criteria.

HM, we have had that long-term potential for the last decade, and we are further away than we were a decade ago.

You need a new AD and entirely new approach to football. Going for a team that is built solely off transfers is a moronic strategy. Spavital must just be lazy to not be pounding the ground for high school guys.

It's an interesting strategy that's for sure. It could all come to an end with this season if TXST doesn't see any improvement. However with all the competition for recruits in Texas it might be easier to recruit the transfer portal instead..
01-26-2022 11:30 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-26-2022 11:30 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-26-2022 10:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(01-26-2022 01:18 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 10:53 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The MWC's only expansion priority at the moment appears to be courting Gonzaga as a 12th basketball member to balance Hawaii's football-only membership. We know the MWC has approached the Zags in the past, and there's an unconfirmed assertion by an MWC board poster who claims to have contacts in the Gonzaga athletic department that the conference and school are still talking.

With respect to football, I expect the MWC to stand pat unless and until an opportunity comes along to add new members that strengthen both its football competitiveness and marketability. While I've always liked Texas State's long-term potential, the Bobcats still have a long way to go to meet those criteria.

HM, we have had that long-term potential for the last decade, and we are further away than we were a decade ago.

You need a new AD and entirely new approach to football. Going for a team that is built solely off transfers is a moronic strategy. Spavital must just be lazy to not be pounding the ground for high school guys.

It's an interesting strategy that's for sure. It could all come to an end with this season if TXST doesn't see any improvement. However with all the competition for recruits in Texas it might be easier to recruit the transfer portal instead..

I just doubt that it's possible to build a winning culture with an entire team that started somewhere else. Even teams that have traditionally relied too heavily on JUCOs have failed. Bill Snyder was about the only guy that ever made JUCO-heavy teams work, and even then, those guys were no more than 15-20 out of 85. But hey, Calipari has made 1-and-dones work well for him. So maybe someone will figure the transfer thing out.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2022 02:24 PM by CitrusUCF.)
01-26-2022 02:23 PM
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dawgonit Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(01-26-2022 01:18 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-25-2022 10:53 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The MWC's only expansion priority at the moment appears to be courting Gonzaga as a 12th basketball member to balance Hawaii's football-only membership. We know the MWC has approached the Zags in the past, and there's an unconfirmed assertion by an MWC board poster who claims to have contacts in the Gonzaga athletic department that the conference and school are still talking.

With respect to football, I expect the MWC to stand pat unless and until an opportunity comes along to add new members that strengthen both its football competitiveness and marketability. While I've always liked Texas State's long-term potential, the Bobcats still have a long way to go to meet those criteria.

HM, we have had that long-term potential for the last decade, and we are further away than we were a decade ago.

I forget that it's already been 10 years since TXST and LaTech were in conference together. I thought UTSA was all hype then and Texas State would do just as well if not better. Crazy to see how the two have diverged.
01-26-2022 03:06 PM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
I can see the mutual interest developing between Texas State and the MWC.

The worst kept secret in college sports was that the MWC was on the phone with the AAC Texas schools before they were gobbled up.

Now, it's looking like Boise State and/or Colorado State may get taken in the next expansion (along with perhaps Memphis).

If the AAC loses 1 school and the MWC loses 1 school, expect Air Force to backfill for Memphis (especially if its Colorado State that leaves).

The MWC has nowhere else to look for legit (non FCS) replacements except for Texas.

With Texas State surging in basketball, it will be difficult to imagine the Bobcats not going to the MWC (a league that cares about the sport of roundball, unlike the Belt).

(This post was last modified: 04-23-2022 06:38 PM by TroyTBoy.)
04-23-2022 06:33 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
No way they invite TXST before UTEP
04-23-2022 07:13 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
Aresco: The MWC will take SMU if they want a Texas school. I still can’t believe you brought the CUSA6 into the AAC. You should of invited UAB and Marshall and called it a day. You ruined the conference. Still talking about luring MWC schools and Army into the AAC I see…..lol. You couldn’t do it then and you sure as hell won’t be able to do it now.
04-23-2022 07:21 PM
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rtist Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
If the MWC calls Texas State, Texas State should answer it. Otherwise, being in the Sun Belt is a pretty sweet gig right now.
04-23-2022 07:24 PM
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(04-23-2022 07:13 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  No way they invite TXST before UTEP

My thoughts as well. UTEP has had their struggles of late, but they are still a more attractive add than Texas State and fit the footprint while still being in Texas (even though West Texas is like a state unto itself).
04-23-2022 07:36 PM
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RE: Should Texas State Stay East (Sunbelt) or Look to The West (MWC)?
(04-23-2022 07:36 PM)freshtop Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 07:13 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  No way they invite TXST before UTEP

My thoughts as well. UTEP has had their struggles of late, but they are still a more attractive add than Texas State and fit the footprint while still being in Texas (even though West Texas is like a state unto itself).

If the MWC is calling either school, they’re in big time trouble.
04-23-2022 08:44 PM
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