Quote:Per RedState on Sunday, the Biden administration is currently formulating a plan to send thousands of troops, a naval battle group, and air elements to defend Eastern Europe against Russian aggression. That comes as Vladimir Putin’s country amasses over 100,000 troops on the border of Ukraine, threatening an invasion. The United States has already begun to evacuate its embassy personnel while telling the other Americans in the country that they are on their own.

Shortly after the announcement of possible US military commitments, the rest of NATO delivered an absolutely embarrassing response to the tensions in their own region.

This is how NATO always works. US taxpayers pay gobs of money to “protect” the Europeans from Russia. But when push comes to shove, it’s the US that sends in thousands of troops and dozens of ships and warplanes to act as a deterrent. Meanwhile, the best Denmark and Holland can come up with is “here’s two fighter jets and a cargo ship.” You can bet any troop deployments from France will number in just the hundreds as well.

Meanwhile, Germany isn’t doing anything at all. In fact, they are actively seeking to undermine NATO even as a member of it, empowering and enriching Russia via energy deals.

What’s the response to such abuse? The Biden administration and the American press pretend like it’s the US that has actually been unfair to the Europeans. It’s asinine, and these latest events prove just how right Donald Trump was about NATO. It’s a dysfunctional group of free-loading nations that refuse to provide for their own defense, instead, demanding a country across an ocean do it for them.

There is no reason that these European NATO countries can’t put together a large enough force to serve as a deterrent to Russia in place of yet more US deployments. It is the European mainland that is supposedly under threat, not the US mainland. It only makes sense that the Europeans do their own heavy-lifting.

Yet, when Trump tried to force these weak, spineless NATO members to step up to the plate, he was excoriated as hurting our alliances. Well, how is that working out? It sure looks like those rejuvenated alliances under Biden are producing the same lackluster results. At least Trump got Germany to throw a bit more cash in the pot and stopped them from becoming energy-dependent on Russia.

The next Republican president has to take a hardline with NATO and really reform the alliance. This is not sustainable, and the American people are only going to grow more disillusioned with a setup that has the US doing everything while the Eurotrash chip in a couple of planes.

Link

Biden's logic: Send troops to Russia's doorstep, sue states that try and protect our border.

It's not even Biden's logic. It's the career bureaucrats and their revolving door back and forth between the feds and the boards of Lockheed, Boeing, Ratheon, Northrop Grumman, etc.

It's the 2022 version of Woodrow Wilson foreign policy.

(01-24-2022 01:16 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  It's the 2022 version of Woodrow Wilson foreign policy.

WWIII

Ukraine's response to Biden* was great: "The american diplomats are safer in Kyiv than they are in LA."

Time to leave NATO and watch all of the great welfare states abandon social programs in favor of defense spending. The world needs us, not the other way around.

(01-24-2022 06:19 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 01:16 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  It's the 2022 version of Woodrow Wilson foreign policy.

WWIII

lol---no need for war with this corrupt bunch in the White House. Just make a deposit into Hunter's Paypal account and "The Big Guy" will be sure Putin gets whatever he wants. Trump would have never announced ahead of time that the US would not use force in Ukraine and he would have told NATO that they better put on a united front on the use of force, or they will be on their own if their breakaway appeasement strategy doesnt work.

Quote:Say what you will about Donald Trump’s foreign policies. He didn’t start wars. He didn’t vaporize a family of 10 in a suburb of Kabul, He did however vaporize actual terrorists. He didn’t abandon Americans in Afghanistan in a disastrous pullout that killed 13 American soldiers. Crimea was abandoned to the predations of Putin during Barack Obama’s watch.

Taiwan wasn’t buzzed by Chinese fighters on a daily basis while Trump was in the White House. Daily Chinese provocations are Joe Biden’s enduring legacy. The Ukrainian border is filled with a hostile Russian army and it’s due, in no small part, to the fool in the White House. The foreign policy of the former vice president is one of weakness and stupidity and mismanagement. Joe Biden doesn’t know what to do because he didn’t bother to look. He and his inept administration are now engaging in the silly practice of “hash-tag” diplomacy, apparently to frighten Putin into backing down? Smart move when dealing with a thug.

Now Biden is threatening Putin to send our men and women to Europe, and telling Americans in-country to find their own way home? Obama said Joe has a unique ability to “F” up everything he touches. For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you, sir.

Link

This should put the fear into Putin. Expect him to back down soon





Meanwhile

We need to stay out of Ukraine.

Riddle me this. If Putin’s problem is that he doesn’t want Ukraine invited into NATO, then why don’t we commit to not inviting Ukraine into NATO. If Russia invades Ukraine they certainly won’t be joining NATO. I don’t get why we constantly have to Fvck with Putin in his backyard. Why do we continue to do this. China gets away with murder and we do nothing. Russia’s GDP is less than Canada. Why why why.

(01-24-2022 06:35 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Time to leave NATO and watch all of the great welfare states abandon social programs in favor of defense spending. The world needs us, not the other way around.

This.

This blithering moron is going to finally get us into hot war with Mother russia after 80 freaking years. And totally unnecessarily.

Good GD it!

This corrupt mouth breather gives them a green light to pump another 40% of their GDP into their military budget while we take a collective nut punch and send our young men off to die again in a senseless escapade.

NO.

Hard NO.

Told my son yesterday to start applying to grad schools.

No effing way over something as dumb*** as this dumb***.

Congrats. The dumbest person in the senate is now your president*

Own it

(01-24-2022 10:17 PM)No Bull Wrote:  We need to stay out of Ukraine.

Riddle me this. If Putin’s problem is that he doesn’t want Ukraine invited into NATO, then why don’t we commit to not inviting Ukraine into NATO. If Russia invades Ukraine they certainly won’t be joining NATO. I don’t get why we constantly have to Fvck with Putin in his backyard. Why do we continue to do this. China gets away with murder and we do nothing. Russia’s GDP is less than Canada. Why why why.

Because its none of Putin's business who joins NATO. As for Putins backyard, Russia is an absolutely huge nation. Half the globe is "their backyard". The reality is Ukraine abuts multiple NATO nations---so Ukraine is as much NATO's backyard as it is Russia's. Russia is the nation that has always been so big it could retreat until the invaders are literally swallowed by Russia's vastness and unforgiving climate. If anyone should be concerned about having buffer states its NATO. Frankly, the NATO nations are the ones with little strategic room for error in a surprise attack scenario. They just dont have nearly as much real estate to fall back on as Russia. While I dont really think Ukraine makes much sense as a NATO member right now---they might one day in the future.

Watch how Russia operates. They dont really worry too much about what we will do or whether we will be upset by their actions. They do as they please and let us react. If we dont push back with force, they keep their gains and look for new opportunities to expand influence. Im not worried about Putin. He's pragmatic. They were actively helping our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan---looks like we are going to return the favor in Ukraine. Sucks for him this time. Noting we are likely to do would block his ability to take what he wants---but I have no problem with us doing everything possible to run up the cost for Putin's aggression. If we can drive up the potential cost high enough-he might actually decide to give the settlement negotiations serious consideration as an alternative to a bloody invasion that might cost more in men and equipment than its really worth to him.

(01-25-2022 01:38 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 06:35 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Time to leave NATO and watch all of the great welfare states abandon social programs in favor of defense spending. The world needs us, not the other way around.

This.

This blithering moron is going to finally get us into hot war with Mother russia after 80 freaking years. And totally unnecessarily.

Good GD it!

This corrupt mouth breather gives them a green light to pump another 40% of their GDP into their military budget while we take a collective nut punch and send our CRT trained young men and women off to die again in a senseless escapade.

NO.

Hard NO.

Told my son yesterday to start applying to grad schools.

No effing way over something as dumb*** as this dumb***.

Congrats. The dumbest person in the senate is now your president*

Own it

Preach it. I simply added the mandatory WOKE details required for today's U.S. military as they prepare to be shipped over to assist NATO under CINC Biden*.

The Afghanistan departure was rushed, senseless, and stupid.

This NATO debacle will be a nightmare that turns most of America against the Dementia-in-Chief.

Biden deploys aircraft carrier Harry S Truman in the Mediterranean under NATO control for first time since end of Cold War as he tells 8,500 US troops to prepare to deploy to Eastern Europe to fend off Russia amid fears of Ukraine invasion
The USS Harry S. Truman is being placed under NATO command for the first time since end of the Cold War

Quote:The Pentagon said aircraft carrier and its strike group will participate in a NATO maritime exercise in the Mediterranean Sea which will last until February 4

According to Pentagon press secretary John Kirby, the exercise, which will begin on Monday, is something that had been planned since 2020

The NATO exercise coincides with rising tension with Moscow and fear that Russia will invade Ukraine

Several U.S. warships were ordered to stay in the Mediterranean 'to reassure' European countries as tensions with Russia rise

President Joe Biden said on Monday that he and European leaders had 'total unanimity' about the situation in the Ukraine but didn't offer more details

'I had a very, very, very good meeting. Total unanimity with all the European leaders. We'll talk about it later,' Biden told reporters at the White House

The Pentagon announced the 8,500 troops are US-based and stressed there was no plan to deploy them at this time, but that they would be ready in case the NATO Response Force was activated

'It's very clear the Russians have no intention right now of de-escalating,' DoD spokesman John Kirby said

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki warned that an alleged coup plot by Russia to overthrow Ukraine's leadership would be a 'severe escalation' at her daily briefing on Monday

A new report reveals Joe Biden is finalizing his plans to deploy U.S. forces to Eastern Europe

Several U.S. officials said the administration is in the final stages of identifying which military units to send to deter Russia and is preparing deployment orders

The Ukraine Foreign Ministry's spokesperson criticized the U.S. State Department's decision to withdraw some embassy staff and families in a Monday morning Twitter post and called it 'premature'

President Biden is considering deploying several thousand American troops together with warships and aircraft, to NATO ally countries located in the Baltics

Both the United States and United Kingdom are withdrawing some diplomats from their embassies in Kiev

The European Union has said it will not yet pull its diplomats from Kiev and warned against 'dramatizing' the situation as other Western governments begin to cautiously evacuate their citizens

Among the strategies being considered, are between 1,000 to 5,000 U.S. troops being relocated to countries in Eastern Europe but there would also be a potential to increase to 50,000 should the need arise

Link

We have a mental invalid in charge of our defense. Most popular PITUS ever.

(01-24-2022 10:17 PM)No Bull Wrote:  We need to stay out of Ukraine.

Riddle me this. If Putin’s problem is that he doesn’t want Ukraine invited into NATO, then why don’t we commit to not inviting Ukraine into NATO. If Russia invades Ukraine they certainly won’t be joining NATO. I don’t get why we constantly have to Fvck with Putin in his backyard. Why do we continue to do this. China gets away with murder and we do nothing. Russia’s GDP is less than Canada. Why why why.

It’s called nuclear arms. And Biden’s answer is to invite Iran into the chit show.
Everyone hoped the last world war would be the last. Afraid we ain’t seen nothing yet. With a weak leadership in the US and foreign megalomaniacs understanding they only have perhaps another three years who knows what will happen.

4D Chess: Arm the Ukranians with hurty equipment. We already gave them Javelins which will make taking a Russian tank to Kiev an adventure. Station anti-aircraft equipment and now it's real painful and expensive for the Russians to take Ukraine. They'll do it eventually of course. But it will take several years instead of several months. And cost them hundreds of thousands of dead troops too. And then they get to occupy a hostile nation of over 40,000,000 people.

This doesn't sound like the second coming of the USSR to me. This sounds like the last desperate act before Russia's demography completely implodes. There won't be a Red Army left to project meaningful force after it's finished the costly job of taking and occupying Ukraine.




This response costs the US almost nothing. It may even be profitable. It costs the Russians a great deal. And even if things go Russia's way in the end ... they get something the US doesn't care about and a country that WAS NOT a NATO member in the first place.

(01-24-2022 12:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

To be fair to Denmark, it's a country of 5.8 million people. For them to send 4 F-16s and a frigate is like the USA sending 230 ground-based F-16s and two carrier strike groups.

The commitments from Spain and the Netherlands are respectable too. If everyone in NATO/EU committed at their level, Russia would be hopelessly outmatched.

(01-25-2022 11:40 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  4D Chess: Arm the Ukranians with hurty equipment. We already gave them Javelins which will make taking a Russian tank to Kiev an adventure. Station anti-aircraft equipment and now it's real painful and expensive for the Russians to take Ukraine. They'll do it eventually of course. But it will take several years instead of several months. And cost them hundreds of thousands of dead troops too. And then they get to occupy a hostile nation of over 40,000,000 people.

This doesn't sound like the second coming of the USSR to me. This sounds like the last desperate act before Russia's demography completely implodes. There won't be a Red Army left to project meaningful force after it's finished the costly job of taking and occupying Ukraine.




This response costs the US almost nothing. It may even be profitable. It costs the Russians a great deal. And even if things go Russia's way in the end ... they get something the US doesn't care about and a country that WAS NOT a NATO member in the first place.

Putin will install a puppet and we will have armed them

Same as ever

(01-25-2022 12:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 11:40 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  4D Chess: Arm the Ukranians with hurty equipment. We already gave them Javelins which will make taking a Russian tank to Kiev an adventure. Station anti-aircraft equipment and now it's real painful and expensive for the Russians to take Ukraine. They'll do it eventually of course. But it will take several years instead of several months. And cost them hundreds of thousands of dead troops too. And then they get to occupy a hostile nation of over 40,000,000 people.

This doesn't sound like the second coming of the USSR to me. This sounds like the last desperate act before Russia's demography completely implodes. There won't be a Red Army left to project meaningful force after it's finished the costly job of taking and occupying Ukraine.




This response costs the US almost nothing. It may even be profitable. It costs the Russians a great deal. And even if things go Russia's way in the end ... they get something the US doesn't care about and a country that WAS NOT a NATO member in the first place.

T
Putin will install a puppet and we will have armed them

Same as ever

This is an important point. NATO is half-assing this thing. So Ukraine will either lose a war or have a puppet installed. Let’s not send any advance weaponry unless we are in it to win it.

We need to worry about China. We need to worry about how they have infiltrated every part of our Nation. That has to be our focus.