(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 11:48 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I think a 20,000-seat stadium would be ideal. That is, if the idea is to ultimately move up to FBS. Otherwise, a 10-15,000-seat stadium would be more beneficial to the Privateers.

Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

UCF is located in a bustling area that has exponential population growth with an endless supply of money. New Orleans is not the case even if the population grows steadily. One thing UNO needs to consider is its infrastructure and safety features. New Orleans sits below sea level. Orlando does not.

(01-31-2022 11:19 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 11:48 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I think a 20,000-seat stadium would be ideal. That is, if the idea is to ultimately move up to FBS. Otherwise, a 10-15,000-seat stadium would be more beneficial to the Privateers.

Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

UCF is located in a bustling area that has exponential population growth with an endless supply of money. New Orleans is not the case even if the population grows steadily. One thing UNO needs to consider is its infrastructure and safety features. New Orleans sits below sea level. Orlando does not.

If UNO plays at Tad Gormley, they should have nothing to worry about.

I've gone to a few Tulane games in the Superdome back when nobody was showing up. Apparently, the Superdome still had to run the A/C like 50,000+ people were in the stadium, even if only like, 8,000 were. Not only was the sound all weird and echoy, but it was FREEZING.

(01-31-2022 11:22 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:19 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 11:48 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I think a 20,000-seat stadium would be ideal. That is, if the idea is to ultimately move up to FBS. Otherwise, a 10-15,000-seat stadium would be more beneficial to the Privateers.

Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

UCF is located in a bustling area that has exponential population growth with an endless supply of money. New Orleans is not the case even if the population grows steadily. One thing UNO needs to consider is its infrastructure and safety features. New Orleans sits below sea level. Orlando does not.

If UNO plays at Tad Gormley, they should have nothing to worry about.

Orlando may be a bustling area, but I'm gathering you haven't actually been to the UCF campus. It is as far east as you can go and still be in Orlando. Go past the campus and you are in swampland. The places with money. Including downtown Orlando are at least 30 minutes from campus and Disney is 45 minutes to an hour in rush-hour traffic.

(01-31-2022 12:41 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:22 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:19 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

UCF is located in a bustling area that has exponential population growth with an endless supply of money. New Orleans is not the case even if the population grows steadily. One thing UNO needs to consider is its infrastructure and safety features. New Orleans sits below sea level. Orlando does not.

If UNO plays at Tad Gormley, they should have nothing to worry about.

Orlando may be a bustling area, but I'm gathering you haven't actually been to the UCF campus. It is as far east as you can go and still be in Orlando. Go past the campus and you are in swampland. The places with money. Including downtown Orlando are at least 30 minutes from campus and Disney is 45 minutes to an hour in rush-hour traffic.

I lived in Lake Buena Vista for 3 months while I interned for The Mouse many, many years ago. On my days off, I saw the UCF campus on occasional trips there when they were barely Division 1-A. The capital the University of Central Florida brings in to that school is ridiculously large when compared to the University of New Orleans. It's why UCF is headed to a Power Conference, and why UNO (founded in 1958) is only contemplating adding football in a very crowded market.

(01-31-2022 12:40 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've gone to a few Tulane games in the Superdome back when nobody was showing up. Apparently, the Superdome still had to run the A/C like 50,000+ people were in the stadium, even if only like, 8,000 were. Not only was the sound all weird and echoy, but it was FREEZING.

I attended a Tulane game in the Superdome in 2011 vs Syracuse. The announced crowd was like 23,000 but I swear maybe 2,000 actual fans were in the stands. I swear I could have counted all of us in a matter of minutes. Maybe there were 20,000 staff behind the scenes that got counted as well, LOL?

Anyway, I agree, the place was very cold, and the sound was cavernous. It was an exciting game, but a bizarre experience.

Now Yulman stadium is a much more aesthetically pleasing way to watch a Tulane game. Except of course for the heat and humidity in September, LOL.

Maybe Tulane should play their September and early October games in the Superdome, and then once the thermometer drops below 80, the rest in Yulman? LOL.

(01-31-2022 11:14 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 11:48 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I think a 20,000-seat stadium would be ideal. That is, if the idea is to ultimately move up to FBS. Otherwise, a 10-15,000-seat stadium would be more beneficial to the Privateers.

Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

Also the cost of opening/operating the Superdome is going to be a lot higher than a typical FCS stadium. I would bet they would lose money on each home game using the Superdome, unless the city gave them a real sweetheart deal.

UTA hears similar things about using the Dallas Cowboys stadium. Last I heard and was involved; it cost 1 million to rent the place (though I think all bills paid).

I’m sure the super dome wouldn’t be as costly, but likely would be the biggest in the city.

Decades ago, I attended a game in the old Tulane stadium that was also used for the Sugar Bowl. I was a youth and believe it was the very late 60s (maybe 70ish). What was interesting, is that it was closely surrounded by nice older homes in a well-kept neighborhood. I've been to New Orleans a few time since, including a national championship Sugar Bowl game in the Superdome between Alabama & Penn State (the time the Nittany Lions tried four plays up the middle and couldn't get into the end zone). I enjoyed the city, but one has to be careful.

I understand that the last event in the old Tulane stadium was a rock concert. The last football game there was when the Saints won 14-0 over the St. Louis Cardinals on December 8, 1974.

As to the University of New Orleans sponsoring football, I am not acquainted enough with their resources to comment substantively. With a pro team, nearby LSU, and Tulane in town, it would be very tough to reach the level and visibility they may be seeking.

(01-31-2022 11:22 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:19 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 11:10 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(01-31-2022 01:29 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-30-2022 11:48 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I think a 20,000-seat stadium would be ideal. That is, if the idea is to ultimately move up to FBS. Otherwise, a 10-15,000-seat stadium would be more beneficial to the Privateers.

Why not the Superdome? Does it really matter if not all the seats are filled? The attendance and seating capacity requirements may be vastly reduced at the new Division 1-AA after the Pay-for-Play Autonomy schools break away from the Gang of 5. And the current FCS 1-AA becoming 1-AAA would likely require much less.

Yes, it matters. One of the reasons to add football (even at the FBS level) is for greater alumni involvement. Tough to get alumni to get fully involved if you are playing off-campus. Also, a smaller stadium allows for a better atmosphere compared to a sea of empty seats. It is why UCF built the Bounce House even though it was with flimsy enough materials to enable the bouncing to occur.

UCF is located in a bustling area that has exponential population growth with an endless supply of money. New Orleans is not the case even if the population grows steadily. One thing UNO needs to consider is its infrastructure and safety features. New Orleans sits below sea level. Orlando does not.

If UNO plays at Tad Gormley, they should have nothing to worry about.

The thing about Tad Gormley is that despite the massive Katrina flooding, it survived just fine. Yeah, a bunch of electrical and plumbing stuff was ruined, but the basic structure is sound.

TG was built in the 1930s, a Great Depression WPA project. It's a brick house. They built stuff to last back then.

I talked to some Southland people yesterday and will have an update on this story, plus a few other updates on the league's expansion targets, tomorrow.

Feasibility study dropped

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

(02-02-2022 11:18 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

Yeah, I like the bolded part. Just saying that X happened after Y doesn't mean Y had anything at all to do with X. What would stun me is if universities, which are filled with scientists that know this, are impressed by "enrollment rose after football added" statements if there were no controls used to partial out other possible causes (I didn't read this study so don't know if that was done here or not, btw).

Beyond that, IMO it would make no sense for UNO to build a stadium with Tad Gormley, a 27k seater, sitting about 3 miles from campus. And I doubt they would have the money either.

We'll see.

(02-02-2022 11:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:18 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

Yeah, I like the bolded part. Just saying that X happened after Y doesn't mean Y had anything at all to do with X. What would stun me is if universities, which are filled with scientists that know this, are impressed by "enrollment rose after football added" statements if there were no controls used to partial out other possible causes (I didn't read this study so don't know if that was done here or not, btw).

Beyond that, IMO it would make no sense for UNO to build a stadium with Tad Gormley, a 27k seater, sitting about 3 miles from campus. And I doubt they would have the money either.

We'll see.

It also seems like there would be finite returns on this - if every school adds football, it's not a differentiator.

Where are the extra ~100 students coming from? Are they people who would otherwise have not gone to college? Or are they people who would've gone to an LSU branch campus? If that LSU branch campus adds football, does UNO lose out on those students?

(02-02-2022 01:58 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:18 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

Yeah, I like the bolded part. Just saying that X happened after Y doesn't mean Y had anything at all to do with X. What would stun me is if universities, which are filled with scientists that know this, are impressed by "enrollment rose after football added" statements if there were no controls used to partial out other possible causes (I didn't read this study so don't know if that was done here or not, btw).

Beyond that, IMO it would make no sense for UNO to build a stadium with Tad Gormley, a 27k seater, sitting about 3 miles from campus. And I doubt they would have the money either.

We'll see.

It also seems like there would be finite returns on this - if every school adds football, it's not a differentiator.

Where are the extra ~100 students coming from? Are they people who would otherwise have not gone to college? Or are they people who would've gone to an LSU branch campus? If that LSU branch campus adds football, does UNO lose out on those students?

That's a good point. IMO, the football situation in New Orleans is pretty saturated. First, NOLA is a Saints town. It bleeds black and gold.

Second, LSU dominated the town at the collegiate level. LSU fans are everywhere in NOLA and they are basically all of the casual college football fans. I'm not talking about an LSU branch, but the big LSU. LSU doesn't have a NOLA branch - UNO used to be that branch but was branched off from it. But LSU still runs the town.

Third, Tulane is there as well, and has its football team and fan following.

Worst of all, UNO is a commuter school. It doesn't have a large dorm population. It's not like Tulane, that draws most of its students from all over the country and internationally, and thus tend to live on or right next to campus. It's a city school that draws almost entirely locally, so these kids don't live on campus and likely never will. And that's typically the backbone of student support for football.

(02-02-2022 01:58 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:18 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

Yeah, I like the bolded part. Just saying that X happened after Y doesn't mean Y had anything at all to do with X. What would stun me is if universities, which are filled with scientists that know this, are impressed by "enrollment rose after football added" statements if there were no controls used to partial out other possible causes (I didn't read this study so don't know if that was done here or not, btw).

Beyond that, IMO it would make no sense for UNO to build a stadium with Tad Gormley, a 27k seater, sitting about 3 miles from campus. And I doubt they would have the money either.

We'll see.

It also seems like there would be finite returns on this - if every school adds football, it's not a differentiator.

Where are the extra ~100 students coming from? Are they people who would otherwise have not gone to college? Or are they people who would've gone to an LSU branch campus? If that LSU branch campus adds football, does UNO lose out on those students?

Yes, there are people like that - I graduated with one who loved football. Without the recruitment from a D3 school, with financial aid (need based, so a lot of fedearl $$) he never would have gone to college. As it was, he was the first in his family to go to college. Without football, he'd have probably just started working straight out of high school.

Via D1.Ticker on Matt Brown follow up

—-
I'm told nothing is imminent yet. There's no guarantee UNO actually starts a program, and the Southland will continue to look for other expansion candidates. But if nothing else, the process has moved beyond message board fever dream. There are charts, figures and a potential path forward, if this is what UNO and the city of New Orleans want to do.

(02-02-2022 03:21 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 01:58 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:18 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:54 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  Feasibility study dropped

Interesting to see some quantitative data measuring the impact of adding a football team on enrollment at a school. The feasibility study linked in the article mentions that 15 DI and DII schools started football 2014, with enrollment increasing by an average of 3% in the year after the team's start, and an average overall enrollment increase of 39% after 5 years.

Obviously there's the traditional "correlation is not automatic causation" maxim in statistics, but that definitely helps to shine a light on why smaller/less resourced schools consider adding football teams: Its not a matter of if the football team can be supported/generate enough revenue itself to be sustainable, its whether or not adding the football team can help boost the university's overall enrollment numbers enough to get more tuition paying students in its doors to be a net financial benefit to the university overall.

If UNO can build a nice new multi-use stadium on campus that would be attractive to host local high school games and other events/tournaments that don't want to play at Tad Gormley stadium, and are too big to play at Tulane or the Superdome, they might be able to carve out enough of a revenue stream from that to make this seem at least not totally inconceivable.

Yeah, I like the bolded part. Just saying that X happened after Y doesn't mean Y had anything at all to do with X. What would stun me is if universities, which are filled with scientists that know this, are impressed by "enrollment rose after football added" statements if there were no controls used to partial out other possible causes (I didn't read this study so don't know if that was done here or not, btw).

Beyond that, IMO it would make no sense for UNO to build a stadium with Tad Gormley, a 27k seater, sitting about 3 miles from campus. And I doubt they would have the money either.

We'll see.

It also seems like there would be finite returns on this - if every school adds football, it's not a differentiator.

Where are the extra ~100 students coming from? Are they people who would otherwise have not gone to college? Or are they people who would've gone to an LSU branch campus? If that LSU branch campus adds football, does UNO lose out on those students?

Yes, there are people like that - I graduated with one who loved football. Without the recruitment from a D3 school, with financial aid (need based, so a lot of fedearl $$) he never would have gone to college. As it was, he was the first in his family to go to college. Without football, he'd have probably just started working straight out of high school.

Yeah, I think that's true for a solid amount of collegiate football players, and college athletes in general. That's certainly a benefit. But if it was only about increasing enrollment with student athletes, there are cheaper sports to add - men's volleyball, m/w soccer, softball, field hockey, etc. Heck, they could even start up an eSports program, I can't imagine that costs very much.

The amount of students they're claiming football schools grew by is more than just the ~80 or so people on the roster, I'm a little more curious about those people.

(02-03-2022 10:17 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The amount of students they're claiming football schools grew by is more than just the ~80 or so people on the roster, I'm a little more curious about those people.

The report cited a University of Nebraska at Kearney, that upgraded to DII. They interviewed student athletes, and asked if they had any relatives/friends who had gone to UNK, apparently because of them. There were an average of two per athlete.

If you are in Omaha or the eastern part of the state, you might not think beyond UNO or UNL for a public school. But if you knew someone who attended UNK, you might decide to apply. Sports may help establish a college identity beyond a group of classrooms.