South Carolina has a dozen D1 schools and PC + USC-Upstate wouldn’t likely be D1 schools in any other state. And yet Francis Marion and North Greenville would go? Those probably aren’t even the best two move ups in South Carolina.

Talking about the 12 school CAA, it would make sense.

CAA North: Northeastern
Hofstra
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Drexel
Delaware

CAA South: Towson
W&M
Hampton
Elon
UNCW
Charleston

Stony Brook is within 4 hours of every team in the North. Even with Monmouth everybody is within 4 and a half. Not the case in the South, but that division is solid with all 6 programs having arenas of at least 5,000 fans.

Getting more of that New York television market also might help with TV deals since you know how much they love that. People forget about Hofstra being the lone wolf now but with Stony Brook and Monmouth more attention will be put on all 3.

(01-18-2022 10:10 PM)sctvman Wrote:  South Carolina has a dozen D1 schools and PC + USC-Upstate wouldn’t likely be D1 schools in any other state. And yet Francis Marion and North Greenville would go? Those probably aren’t even the best two move ups in South Carolina.

Talking about the 12 school CAA, it would make sense.

CAA North: Northeastern
Hofstra
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Drexel
Delaware

CAA South: Towson
W&M
Hampton
Elon
UNCW
Charleston

Stony Brook is within 4 hours of every team in the North. Even with Monmouth everybody is within 4 and a half. Not the case in the South, but that division is solid with all 6 programs having arenas of at least 5,000 fans.

Getting more of that New York television market also might help with TV deals since you know how much they love that. People forget about Hofstra being the lone wolf now but with Stony Brook and Monmouth more attention will be put on all 3.

If they want to go to 14 in all sports they could do a lot worse than adding (a) either NC A&T or Campbell; and (b) either Winthrop or High Point.

(01-18-2022 07:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 07:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 07:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 06:20 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 06:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Perhaps Howard will absorb fellow HBCU Johnson C. Smith to create Howard Johnson?

If there's ever a Marriott University, sportswriters will cover the crap out of it.

There *is* a Spring Hill in Division 2 but they're no risk to move up, most likely.

If Fairfield and Marist goes to the CAA along Marist? That means MAAC have to get 4 schools from NEC to get to 12. AEC would get one from NEC. NEC would be in trouble. Bentley, New Haven and Stonehill from NEC 10 would be called up.

Post as a for profit NEC
Thomas Jefferson NEC
UNC-Pembroke Big South
Francis Marion Big South
Mount Olive Big South
North Greenville Big South
Queens College AEC
Staten Island AEC
Mercy NEC
Frostberg State AEC or Big South
U. of Charleston NEC
Pace NEC
S. Conn. State AEC
Le moyne NEC
West Chester, Indiana PA, Kutztown AEC
Gannon NEC
Shepherd Big South


I am not saying they all going to D1, but they are possible targets for the three conferences could look at.

So another random list with no basis in thought or fact.

Got it.

It is all speculations right now, and we need to think outside of the box. AEC might be able to sponsor football in the future if they bring up D2 schools with football along with Central Connecticutt State and the three AEC schools that do play football. They might be able to get URI as a football affiliate.

Since a D2 school must be an active member for 5 years before applying to D1, that crosses Frostburg State and College of Staten Island off the list. Those two are not scheduled to be active member status until July 2022 and will be ineligible to apply for D1 until 2027. Then there's the 4-year D1 reclassification period and that takes us to 2031 before they are counted in D1; that is if nothing goes wrong. If a conference is short on men's soccer teams they can't count a reclassifying school for 4 years so a D2 school gives no immediate help.

Why is the solution always to bring up small-budget small-enrollment D2 schools. Including future membership changes, there are 358 schools in D1 while there are 303 in D2. Of the current active members, over half of D2 (159 schools) are less than 2,500 students and more than 1/3rd of D2 (111 schools) are between 2,500 and 7,500. That leaves a grand total of 30 schools in all of D2 over 7,500 students including just 7 schools more than 15,000 students. There's enough schools in D1. If the D1 conferences want to be bigger then maybe it's time for a conference or 6 to disappear. There's not enough D2 schools willing and able to keep plugging the holes in D1, and even if there were enough they couldn't keep up with the pace of all the current changes because of D1 requirements.

These lists keep showing up but we never get a reason as to WHY they are targets for D1 conferences, or IF they have any interest in D1, or HOW they are going to get to D1. You have Charleston (West Virginia) going to the NEC where the bulk of the membership is in the New York City area, that's a lot of travel. What is Charleston going to do with football; the NEC allows just 45 football scholarships which is only 9 more than the D2 limit. Are all of Charleston's sports sponsored by the NEC, if not the now homeless sports need a place to go. And a few dozen more.

This isn't Minor League Baseball and the NE10 is not the AAA farm team for the NEC. Schools are all separate entities with different missions, desires, and budgets.

(01-18-2022 05:48 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 05:03 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I still can’t imagine this being a really popular addition for all. Between them and Hampton, which don’t make CAAF stronger in any ways, but at least puts/returns flags into the Virginia Beach area and now NJ.

I have to believe there is something else going on here.

And I am crossing my fingers Stony Brook decides to stay in AmEast. This isn’t the same CAA they wanted years back, and it stinks of a consolation prize for not achieving something better when they had their collection plates passed around saying they were going bigger and better. This isn’t either of those things, other than a bigger travel budget for a single-bid league.

Stony Brook to the CAA gives them better basketball, better baseball, better lacrosse, better exposure and more efficient travel. There’s no incentive for them to stay in the AE.

Lacrosse and baseball I might buy. Basketball, no way.

Efficient travel? How so? The AmEast footprint was pretty compact, even for Long Island standards. Maybe MAAC or NEC may have been tighter (sparing the trips to Vermont, UNH, and Maine for more CT and NY schools).

FWIW, and maybe it is as simple as this, but, if you’re putting down in a conference with academic names such as William & Mary, Northeastern, Drexel, and Delaware, it’s not a bad move. I am left to wonder if Stony wasn’t fond of UMass-Lowell and NJIT, or fond that those two were the “best” options. And maybe after dealing with Boston U.’s antics in the conference, wasn’t fond of the conference’s response to that.

It still screams as a consolation prize for missing the mark on the fundraising campaign, though.

(01-19-2022 07:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 05:48 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 05:03 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I still can’t imagine this being a really popular addition for all. Between them and Hampton, which don’t make CAAF stronger in any ways, but at least puts/returns flags into the Virginia Beach area and now NJ.

I have to believe there is something else going on here.

And I am crossing my fingers Stony Brook decides to stay in AmEast. This isn’t the same CAA they wanted years back, and it stinks of a consolation prize for not achieving something better when they had their collection plates passed around saying they were going bigger and better. This isn’t either of those things, other than a bigger travel budget for a single-bid league.

Stony Brook to the CAA gives them better basketball, better baseball, better lacrosse, better exposure and more efficient travel. There’s no incentive for them to stay in the AE.

Lacrosse and baseball I might buy. Basketball, no way.

Efficient travel? How so? The AmEast footprint was pretty compact, even for Long Island standards. Maybe MAAC or NEC may have been tighter (sparing the trips to Vermont, UNH, and Maine for more CT and NY schools).

FWIW, and maybe it is as simple as this, but, if you’re putting down in a conference with academic names such as William & Mary, Northeastern, Drexel, and Delaware, it’s not a bad move. I am left to wonder if Stony wasn’t fond of UMass-Lowell and NJIT, or fond that those two were the “best” options. And maybe after dealing with Boston U.’s antics in the conference, wasn’t fond of the conference’s response to that.

It still screams as a consolation prize for missing the mark on the fundraising campaign, though.

Maybe we are looking at different maps. As someone pointed out, SBU is within 4 hours of 6 teams in the CAA, one of which is just down the parkway with Hofstra. Maine, UNH and Vermont are all 5 hours plus and that’s if the roads are plowed and you’re not driving through a snowstorm.

And how you conclude the CAA is not a step up in basketball. I can’t ever remember a year where AE basketball was was within 6 spots in conference rankings to the CAA or ever had a game on TV. It’s really not even close.

The only thing the AE has that the CAA doesn't is a dominant program that can carry the torch in March in Vermont. Stony Brook and UMBC are decent programs, and Albany has their moments, but everyone else ranges from mediocre to straight up bad (Binghamton and Maine). Compared to the new CAA North, especially with Monmouth in the fold, and there really isn't a comparison.

(01-19-2022 09:44 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  The only thing the AE has that the CAA doesn't is a dominant program that can carry the torch in March in Vermont. Stony Brook and UMBC are decent programs, and Albany has their moments, but everyone else ranges from mediocre to straight up bad (Binghamton and Maine). Compared to the new CAA North, especially with Monmouth in the fold, and there really isn't a comparison.

The CAA is a better basketball conference from top to bottom. No doubt.

America East is harder to win, because Vermont is the best program in either conference and the championship game is at the highest seed's home court.

SBU likely got sick of banging its head against Vermont's door.

Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Football is the issue for Bentley. That makes the MAAC or AE difficult. I think AE would be interested otherwise because it gets them back into suburban Boston.

Bentley would probably also like to upgrade from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East or the ECAC, they have a nice little arena. I'd bet they have their ears open, at least.

(01-19-2022 10:36 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Football is the issue for Bentley. That makes the MAAC or AE difficult. I think AE would be interested otherwise because it gets them back into suburban Boston.

Bentley would probably also like to upgrade from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East or the ECAC, they have a nice little arena. I'd bet they have their ears open, at least.

I'm sure they do. Would football affiliate membership in the NEC be a option? Duquesne is a football-only member there. Maybe even the Patriot League (ala Fordham and Georgetown)?

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

(01-19-2022 11:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

Isn't SNHU a for profit school? The other 3 should all be willing to move up now. Stonehill is one word.

(01-19-2022 10:45 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 11:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

Isn't SNHU a for profit school? The other 3 should all be willing to move up now. Stonehill is one word.

Nope, Southern New Hampshire is not for profit. It is Post University that you are thinking of.

(01-20-2022 03:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:45 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 11:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

Isn't SNHU a for profit school? The other 3 should all be willing to move up now. Stonehill is one word.

Nope, Southern New Hampshire is not for profit. It is Post University that you are thinking of.

And Southern New Hampshire has 3,000 students on-campus. Does that make them one of the many large northeastern schools you mentioned.

SNHU does have 135,000 online students but they don't pay athletic fees. It is a non-profit and also private.

(01-20-2022 03:53 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(01-20-2022 03:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:45 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 11:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:33 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  Tangentially Related here, but would Bentley University in Waltham MA (DII, Northeast 10 Conference) have any interest in moving up to DI? they seem to fit both the MAAC and NEC profiles well enough, and have an acceptable enough academic rep that the America East could stomach them IMO.

Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

Isn't SNHU a for profit school? The other 3 should all be willing to move up now. Stonehill is one word.

Nope, Southern New Hampshire is not for profit. It is Post University that you are thinking of.

And Southern New Hampshire has 3,000 students on-campus. Does that make them one of the many large northeastern schools you mentioned.

SNHU does have 135,000 online students but they don't pay athletic fees. It is a non-profit and also private.

That's what I was think of, University of Phoenix, the D-II version.

(01-19-2022 09:44 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  The only thing the AE has that the CAA doesn't is a dominant program that can carry the torch in March in Vermont. Stony Brook and UMBC are decent programs, and Albany has their moments, but everyone else ranges from mediocre to straight up bad (Binghamton and Maine). Compared to the new CAA North, especially with Monmouth in the fold, and there really isn't a comparison.

If parity is the only thing CAA basketball has over AmEast, that isn’t saying much. Between the best years of the likes of UNCW versus Vermont, those guys squabble for the 12 or 13 lines. When the regular season champ can’t clinch the AQ, the two are virtually indistinguishable, frequenting the 15 or 16 lines. At best for CAA, maybe it’s more 14-15 versus AmEast’s 15-16. Is that much better? This also considering who actually upended a #1 in that 16 slot.

Maybe women’s basketball has it well over AmEast. Men’s is really just a push.

Stony is going to get lost in CAA. At the very least in AmEast, bungling up their conference tournament could get them the NIT if they clinch the regular season championship. Getting lost even in the middle of CAA…well, the kids will get used to having the month of March off.

(01-20-2022 06:36 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-20-2022 03:53 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(01-20-2022 03:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 10:45 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 11:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bentley, New Haven and Stone Hill are the ones to look at. Southern New Hampshire was another one, but they are declining in enrollment is hurting them right now.

Isn't SNHU a for profit school? The other 3 should all be willing to move up now. Stonehill is one word.

Nope, Southern New Hampshire is not for profit. It is Post University that you are thinking of.

And Southern New Hampshire has 3,000 students on-campus. Does that make them one of the many large northeastern schools you mentioned.

SNHU does have 135,000 online students but they don't pay athletic fees. It is a non-profit and also private.

That's what I was think of, University of Phoenix, the D-II version.

Or Grand Canyon East.

(01-20-2022 07:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 09:44 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  The only thing the AE has that the CAA doesn't is a dominant program that can carry the torch in March in Vermont. Stony Brook and UMBC are decent programs, and Albany has their moments, but everyone else ranges from mediocre to straight up bad (Binghamton and Maine). Compared to the new CAA North, especially with Monmouth in the fold, and there really isn't a comparison.

If parity is the only thing CAA basketball has over AmEast, that isn’t saying much. Between the best years of the likes of UNCW versus Vermont, those guys squabble for the 12 or 13 lines. When the regular season champ can’t clinch the AQ, the two are virtually indistinguishable, frequenting the 15 or 16 lines. At best for CAA, maybe it’s more 14-15 versus AmEast’s 15-16. Is that much better? This also considering who actually upended a #1 in that 16 slot.

Maybe women’s basketball has it well over AmEast. Men’s is really just a push.

Stony is going to get lost in CAA. At the very least in AmEast, bungling up their conference tournament could get them the NIT if they clinch the regular season championship. Getting lost even in the middle of CAA…well, the kids will get used to having the month of March off.

Jeez, Stony Brook fans better hope their admin doesn't have the same loser mentality. Teams will always move up in the conference hierarchy if they think the new conference provides institutional fits, which the CAA does in this case. It's a no-brainer for them.

(01-20-2022 07:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-19-2022 09:44 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  The only thing the AE has that the CAA doesn't is a dominant program that can carry the torch in March in Vermont. Stony Brook and UMBC are decent programs, and Albany has their moments, but everyone else ranges from mediocre to straight up bad (Binghamton and Maine). Compared to the new CAA North, especially with Monmouth in the fold, and there really isn't a comparison.

If parity is the only thing CAA basketball has over AmEast, that isn’t saying much. Between the best years of the likes of UNCW versus Vermont, those guys squabble for the 12 or 13 lines. When the regular season champ can’t clinch the AQ, the two are virtually indistinguishable, frequenting the 15 or 16 lines. At best for CAA, maybe it’s more 14-15 versus AmEast’s 15-16. Is that much better? This also considering who actually upended a #1 in that 16 slot.

Maybe women’s basketball has it well over AmEast. Men’s is really just a push.

Stony is going to get lost in CAA. At the very least in AmEast, bungling up their conference tournament could get them the NIT if they clinch the regular season championship. Getting lost even in the middle of CAA…well, the kids will get used to having the month of March off.

I'm not even sure what this means. The CAA also has that NIT auto-birth for the regular season champion.

(01-18-2022 10:10 PM)sctvman Wrote:  Stony Brook is within 4 hours of every team in the North. Even with Monmouth everybody is within 4 and a half. Not the case in the South, but that division is solid with all 6 programs having arenas of at least 5,000 fans.

Getting more of that New York television market also might help with TV deals since you know how much they love that. People forget about Hofstra being the lone wolf now but with Stony Brook and Monmouth more attention will be put on all 3.

No one in the New York market is thinking about Stony Brook. Distance wise, it's as close to Manhattan as San Bernardino is to downtown LA, or Valparaiso is to Chicago.