(01-14-2022 10:08 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 10:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I could see CoC and UNCW being interested, I'm less sold that us or Elon would be.

W&M is geographically southern, but I would bet most of our students come from the DC-Boston acela corridor (and a lot of our alumni live there too), so us being in a conference that gets us in those markets makes sense to me.

Elon has tight connections to the Northeast, too. Per LinkedIn, they have:
- 4,709 alumni in Greensboro
- 3,644 in NYC
- 3,417 in Raleigh-Durham
- 2,771 in DC
- 2,109 in Charlotte
- 1,753 in Boston
- 1,090 in Atlanta

Seems like they would MUCH rather be in the same league as Northeastern, Drexel, and Hofstra than this hypothetical conference.

As an Elon Alum I would much prefer a return to the SoCon. Elon and W&M need to be in a southern conference with natural rivalries. Putting your school in a conference based on "markets" does not work at this level. How many of the 1,753 Elon alumni in Boston actually attend a basketball game vs. Northeastern? I'm those 3,644 alumni in NYC can't wait for that Hofstra game! Professional sports are a priority in the Northeast and I don't see that ever changing. Also, Asheville is a great town to visit for a basketball tournament. I'm only 2 hrs. from DC and wouldn't even consider going there during this time.

I really do not get the idea that a southern located school that draws students from the northeast, and has alumni in the northeast, HAS to share a conference with northeastern schools.

My wide is a 2005 Elon grad. While she was there, they were Big South members early and then SoCon members. Late 90s they were D2. The CAA didn't come until either 2013 or 2014.

Visiting here when we were in college, there were northern license plates EVERYWHERE. VA (much of which I'm sure were DC suburbs), MD, PA, NJ, NY, CT, MA, and OH were in no short supply. NC was the most common, and Florida had a noticeable presence, too.

Elon did not at all need the CAA to gain interest from northeastern students. Plus, since leaving the SoCon, their old league has clearly exerted itself as the superior basketball league, and, without JMU, the SoCon is close enough to equal in football.

So why not save on travel costs, enjoy ESPN+ exposure over prohibitively expensive FloSports, and enjoy better competition back in the SoCon?

I think my thing with the SoCon is the schools in it aren't really natural rivalries for W&M. UT-Chattanooga, Mercer, Western Carolina, etc. The only current SoCon member that's sort of our rival is VMI, and we stopped playing them a decade ago (after beating them 25 seasons in a row).


A lot of the schools in the CAA aren't great rivalries for us either, but W&M as an institution has more in common with them, and if we're gonna play schools we're indifferent towards, I'd rather them be in cities with our alums and potential students. When we played a game @ American the crowd was probably half W&M fans, and we have among the most fans at the CAA tournaments in DC and Baltimore. Our alumni associations are ok enough at promoting these games, but I think we could do even more in that area.

I also don't really think we're a package deal with Elon in any way, I don't think either institution cares about the other one enough.

(01-15-2022 10:40 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I really do not get the idea that a southern located school that draws students from the northeast, and has alumni in the northeast, HAS to share a conference with northeastern schools.

My wide is a 2005 Elon grad. While she was there, they were Big South members early and then SoCon members. Late 90s they were D2. The CAA didn't come until either 2013 or 2014.

Visiting here when we were in college, there were northern license plates EVERYWHERE. VA (much of which I'm sure were DC suburbs), MD, PA, NJ, NY, CT, MA, and OH were in no short supply. NC was the most common, and Florida had a noticeable presence, too.

Elon did not at all need the CAA to gain interest from northeastern students. Plus, since leaving the SoCon, their old league has clearly exerted itself as the superior basketball league, and, without JMU, the SoCon is close enough to equal in football.

So why not save on travel costs, enjoy ESPN+ exposure over prohibitively expensive FloSports, and enjoy better competition back in the SoCon?

When I was there (86'-90') there NJ and NY students, but the vast majority of course was NC and Va. We were also NAIA playing Mars Hill, Carson-Newman, etc. In hindsight leaving the SoCon was a mistake for Elon.

(01-15-2022 10:55 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I think my thing with the SoCon is the schools in it aren't really natural rivalries for W&M. UT-Chattanooga, Mercer, Western Carolina, etc. The only current SoCon member that's sort of our rival is VMI, and we stopped playing them a decade ago (after beating them 25 seasons in a row).


A lot of the schools in the CAA aren't great rivalries for us either, but W&M as an institution has more in common with them, and if we're gonna play schools we're indifferent towards, I'd rather them be in cities with our alums and potential students. When we played a game @ American the crowd was probably half W&M fans, and we have among the most fans at the CAA tournaments in DC and Baltimore. Our alumni associations usually do a pretty good job of promoting these games, but I think we could do even more in that area.

I can appreciate that perspective. W&M has been in the CAA/ECAC for, what, 45 years or so? I would predict they're staying put.

I would just like to make a case for the SoCon.

W&M is one of the most private-feeling public schools I can think of, and the SoCon is in no short supply of private schools. (Ga. Southern & App fans grew increasingly irritated by the predominance of private schools, in fact.) Furman, Wofford, Samford, and Mercer are 40% of the conference. Small, military schools The Citadel and VMI tended to vote alongside the private schools, at least when App and Ga. Southern were in the league. So that's another 20%. UNCG and ETSU offer good basketball. Chattanooga... I understand lack of interest in them from the W&M perspective, but having gone there for a weekend getaway with my wife in August, it is a really cool place to visit. WCU? This App State alum has never been a fan. They're a sports dud, I'll give you that. (Just busting chops with the OP.)

Plus, the SoCon offers a really fun basketball tournament in a really fun city in Asheville, NC, and it offers ESPN + over expensive FloSports.

Meanwhile, the CAA has lost its signature football program, and local, longtime rival, in JMU.

Plus, we all know how this works....

Outside of the P5, Big East, and maybe the G5, so much of realignment is based on fear and panic.

"I like the conference I'm in. My preference is the status quo. But my conference mate is leaving. And I'm being offered membership in a rival league. And if I don't go, my league rival may leave instead. And so may another, and another. Then, the league I'm in is no longer a league I want to be in. Crap, I better take that rival conference's offer because if I don't, I'm gonna be screwed. Every school for itself!"

Again, I think the likelihood is for W&M to stay in the CAA and to be perfectly content. But don't discount the panic factor.

(01-15-2022 11:27 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:55 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I think my thing with the SoCon is the schools in it aren't really natural rivalries for W&M. UT-Chattanooga, Mercer, Western Carolina, etc. The only current SoCon member that's sort of our rival is VMI, and we stopped playing them a decade ago (after beating them 25 seasons in a row).


A lot of the schools in the CAA aren't great rivalries for us either, but W&M as an institution has more in common with them, and if we're gonna play schools we're indifferent towards, I'd rather them be in cities with our alums and potential students. When we played a game @ American the crowd was probably half W&M fans, and we have among the most fans at the CAA tournaments in DC and Baltimore. Our alumni associations usually do a pretty good job of promoting these games, but I think we could do even more in that area.

I can appreciate that perspective. W&M has been in the CAA/ECAC for, what, 45 years or so? I would predict they're staying put.

I would just like to make a case for the SoCon.

W&M is one of the most private-feeling public schools I can think of, and the SoCon is in no short supply of private schools. (Ga. Southern & App fans grew increasingly irritated by the predominance of private schools, in fact.) Furman, Wofford, Samford, and Mercer are 40% of the conference. Small, military schools The Citadel and VMI tended to vote alongside the private schools, at least when App and Ga. Southern were in the league. So that's another 20%. UNCG and ETSU offer good basketball. Chattanooga... I understand lack of interest in them from the W&M perspective, but having gone there for a weekend getaway with my wife in August, it is a really cool place to visit. WCU? This App State alum has never been a fan. They're a sports dud, I'll give you that. (Just busting chops with the OP.)

Plus, the SoCon offers a really fun basketball tournament in a really fun city in Asheville, NC, and it offers ESPN + over expensive FloSports.

Meanwhile, the CAA has lost its signature football program, and local, longtime rival, in JMU.

Plus, we all know how this works....

Outside of the P5, Big East, and maybe the G5, so much of realignment is based on fear and panic.

"I like the conference I'm in. My preference is the status quo. But my conference mate is leaving. And I'm being offered membership in a rival league. And if I don't go, my league rival may leave instead. And so may another, and another. Then, the league I'm in is no longer a league I want to be in. Crap, I better take that rival conference's offer because if I don't, I'm gonna be screwed. Every school for itself!"

Again, I think the likelihood is for W&M to stay in the CAA and to be perfectly content. But don't discount the panic factor.

I think that's totally defensible. Honestly, while athletics is important to W&M, it's not make or break for the school. I don't think a move to the SoCon or staying in the CAA really changes much in terms of the school's outlook. I think the upside is higher in the CAA, if we can find better ways to use basketball games to connect with our alumni bases, but either way we're fine.

The reality is most of the schools we would want to be in a conference passed us athletically years ago, rumor has it we were a potential ACC invite in the early 70s, who knows where we'd be now if we'd taken that.

CAA focuses on Hampton, Monmouth, Stony Brook. The CAA explored the possibility of adding schools that are now Southern Conference members, but they apparently elected to stay in the SoCon.

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