(01-14-2022 05:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 05:13 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 04:24 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 01:56 PM)All4One Wrote:  I interpret the article to suggest a complete Power Conference split. Not so much that the MAC would be going to FCS, but that the MAC could be in a lower division that could very well be between the current FCS and what the Power Conferences--namely the SEC and Greg Sankey--envision for themselves as a division. Nor would the MAC be alone in this. The other four Gang of 5 Conferences would likely be included.

They aren't going to hold some rule or standard in place that anyone can achieve. Ultimately, it comes down to autonomy status vs. non-autonomy status, and it's THAT criteria and splits the Football Bowl Subdivision. It's THAT criteria that Greg Sankey thinks should define the division for his conference and like conferences, and those who are not belong in a different division.

It appears that the Autonomous 5 conferences want more autonomy. The unstated threat may be a split, but the A5 need new ways to spend the revenue they generate. Probably pay-for-play and more scholarships. It will get more expensive to be part of the FBS. I forget the exact numbers, but G5 schools are already heavily subsidizing D1 sports. The P5 and G5 will have to spend a lot more on athletics to remain in the top tier. Sankey realizes that it’s inefficient / unfair to pay or guarantee coaches $100M contracts while not allowing athletes to share the revenue growth.

This new tier may provide guidelines for attendance expectations, but it would be almost impossible to enforce those types of rules.

Greg Sankey is banking on increasing scholarships for Autonomy Conference schools, network visibility for athletic contests for Autonomy Conference schools, and the amount of money for Autonomy Conference schools by cutting the Gang of 5 out of the "same subdivision" CFP revenue distributions like the FCS currently is.

I'm certain his conversation was to coax the official at Ohio to convince them to be the beacon of light and understanding for the Gang of 5--to convince the Gang of 5 to pursue their own national championship while still being a greater part of what Autonomy schools need and want as far as scheduling, etc. I could still see scheduling going forward as it is now where Autonomy schools can still schedule multiple non-Autonomy schools and it not effect bowl-eligibility for whatever postseason the Autonomy Conferences create for themselves.

Sankey has to be careful not to be too restrictive. A media and revenue monopoly for the Autonomy schools by declassifying the Gang of 5 schools in a separate division can easily wade into the waters of antitrust suits. This is where Sankey needs the Gang of 5 to be okay with it. He needs them on board.

You likely wouldn't see the end of MACtion or Fun Belt or similar Gang of 5 broadcasts because now there's a market for it. Streaming makes it easier for networks to offer more choices for live sporting events. You may see less Gang of 5's on prime time television, but I don't think you would see the current Gang of 5 getting significantly less in a separate D1 subdivision, but I think you would see the Autonomy schools get significantly more which must still be possible.

You also would likely see many of the current 2nd and lower-tier bowls follow the Gang of 5 to their new subdivision and be utilized in a restructured College Football Playoff for those schools. You might even see some postseason bowls continue that crosses subdivisions allowing the Autonomy schools that don't qualify for their top tier bowls to take a bowl bid in a Gang of 5 subdivision bowl. Or a current FCS school facing a current Gang of 5 school in a cross-subdivision postseason bowl especially where there's a lack of bowl eligible teams.

The Autonomy schools are positioning themselves to split the FBS. I can theorize all day on what that might look like, but those schools definitely do not want to share a subdivision any longer with non-Autonomy schools.

When I look at the Knight Commission surveys, a lot of division I sees a separate FBS. But that was opposed by the FBS schools. I think a more complete break is more likely. Basketball is where the A5 get significantly less than they bring and have little control. Within the NCAA, we could see a Division 0 or 4 or A, whatever they call it. Maybe they allow remaining Division I to participate in Division 0 in select sports, but not football or basketball.

The non-power programs aren't competitive in any of the sports and that is the problem.

Better to let the P5+1 split and form their own division where they can spend themselves into bankruptcy.

The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Yep. Exactly. It's not something the MAC would reluctantly volunteer for. It would be coerced into and forced upon.

(01-14-2022 08:29 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Yep. Exactly. It's not something the MAC would reluctantly volunteer for. It would be coerced into and forced upon.

A willingness to move down from D1 could be there rather than remain with the power bankrupt.

Especially if FCS is willing to do salary caps reduced scholarship requirements.

The alliance scheduling mandates are particularly troublesome too as there will be less opportunities for guarantee game money at the MAC level.

(01-14-2022 09:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 08:29 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Yep. Exactly. It's not something the MAC would reluctantly volunteer for. It would be coerced into and forced upon.

A willingness to move down from D1 could be there rather than remain with the power bankrupt.

Especially if FCS is willing to do salary caps reduced scholarship requirements.

The alliance scheduling mandates are particularly troublesome too as there will be less opportunities for guarantee game money at the MAC level.

MAC willingly go FCS lower division with scholarship cuts, revenue cuts, and destructive scheduling that would be damaging to the MAC'S visibility and relevance? Yeah, that's not happening.

MAC schools could increase road football buy games vs the power 5 and just play one non-conference home game vs FCS. Those payouts are more than bowl games. MAC has some schools trying to win games for bowl eligibility and schedule 2 for 1 with some power five schools.

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Kansas St had the 3rd best winning % in conference play from 2012-2021. Maybe you meant Kansas, but they cant even beat the MAC teams they regularly schedule.

(01-14-2022 10:26 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 09:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 08:29 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Yep. Exactly. It's not something the MAC would reluctantly volunteer for. It would be coerced into and forced upon.

A willingness to move down from D1 could be there rather than remain with the power bankrupt.

Especially if FCS is willing to do salary caps reduced scholarship requirements.

The alliance scheduling mandates are particularly troublesome too as there will be less opportunities for guarantee game money at the MAC level.

MAC willingly go FCS lower division with scholarship cuts, revenue cuts, and destructive scheduling that would be damaging to the MAC'S visibility and relevance? Yeah, that's not happening.

Agree 100%. Moreover, now that ESPN is providing the MAC schools with $2 M/yr per school, they're going to be an FBS conference.

.

(01-15-2022 02:02 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 10:26 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 09:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 08:29 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 06:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The heading of this thread is unfortunate. This hypothetical wouldn't really be the "MAC heading" for FCS so much as it would be "most or all of the G5 getting pushed."

It seems to me a pretty big chunk of the P5 needs the G5 around to feel better about themselves. Who are the likes of Syracuse, Illinois, and Kansas State going to beat if the G5 is gone?

Yep. Exactly. It's not something the MAC would reluctantly volunteer for. It would be coerced into and forced upon.

A willingness to move down from D1 could be there rather than remain with the power bankrupt.

Especially if FCS is willing to do salary caps reduced scholarship requirements.

The alliance scheduling mandates are particularly troublesome too as there will be less opportunities for guarantee game money at the MAC level.

MAC willingly go FCS lower division with scholarship cuts, revenue cuts, and destructive scheduling that would be damaging to the MAC'S visibility and relevance? Yeah, that's not happening.

Agree 100%. Moreover, now that ESPN is providing the MAC schools with $2 M/yr per school, they're going to be an FBS conference.

MAC was getting 750k from the NCAA prior to the Oklahoma vs. NCAA case back in the early 80's. The MAC needed 30 years just to get back to the level it was at before.

CFP expansion might bring additional fund 2-3 million but won't be enough to offset complete deregulation with unlimited scholarships and coaches.

That is the dilemma the MAC is facing. Its not that they can't make more money by staying up its that its not enough to offset the increased price of competition without a regulated environment.

(01-14-2022 01:59 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:19 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I found a quite a number of interesting quotes in this article:

Quote:The elephant in the room in is a potential further division of the FBS. Which schools are going to make the cut, and which will be relegated to what has long been referred to as "Division IV"? While a splitting of FBS is not a certainty, it is more likely now than at any time since that last big division in 1978.

Quote:"It's not on the table yet, but that's the first thing that's going to have to asked," said West Virginia AD Shane Lyons, a member of the Transformation Committee. "With those Transformation Committee members, what are we looking for? Is it membership requirements? There is the differential between schools that make $175 million and those that make $4 million.

Quote:The Transformation Committee is co-chaired by SEC commissioner Greg Sankey and Ohio AD Julie Cromer. By its mere composition, the committee foreshadows a separation. Sankey is head of the nation's most powerful football conference. Cromer is AD of a MAC school, which plays some of its games on weeknights to maximize exposure.

Quote:"Anything that has Sankey in it would give me an indication that the divide will get greater," said a college sports consultant who spoke anonymously because of the sensitivity of the situation. "Julie being at Ohio, I really like Julie. She's smart as hell. I would see her and Sankey clashing big time. I suspect that's the case, but Greg's going to win every time because he can. He's got the power."

Quote:There are current minimum standards for FBS membership, including (just to name a few): sports sponsorship (16), minimum scheduling requirements (60% of games vs. FBS, 5+ home games) and average attendance (15,000). Raising the attendance minimum to 30,000 would alone theoretically cause 56 schools (43%) to lose FBS membership based on 2019 averages.

Quote:MAC commissioner Jon Steinbrecher, whose conference might be one of those impacted by a higher cost of doing business, is not deterred.

"I'm comfortable based on conversations I've had among the FBS commissioners and with Greg Sankey," he said. "I don't think people should overreact or underreact to anything. Whatever the outcome, we're well positioned. Deregulation is really interesting to talk about in the abstract but is wicked hard to do in reality."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ivide-fbs/

MAC well positioned with midweek games? Its pushing 50 years since the Division 1A/1AA split of 1978 a period with an unprecedented influx of money into college athletics.

I would have to think if its going to be a massive increase in scholarships and coaches allotted across all sports the MAC would prefer to stop playing the game and move down to FCS. What would be the point in helping to shape new standards if the MAC couldn't take advantage of them?

Based on a 30,000 threshold for attendance (2019) and future alignments,

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Houston, and WSU miss the cut.

Boise State, Fresno State, East Carolina, Memphis, Navy, USF, Army and Notre Dame make the cut.

B12 will help attendance at Houston. The P12 might agree to send some fans to Pullman, and the SEC and ACC will finally be cleansed of the smarties.

ACC replaces Duke and Wake, with East Carolina and USF. The SEC replaces Vanderbilt with Memphis. B12 adds Boise State and Fresno State.

MW, AAC (which picks up Duke, Wake Forest, and Vanderbilt), CUSA (which adds UMass and UConn for football), MAC, and Sub Belt continue as present, perhaps with a real championship 60 schools, 16 teams, AQ for conference champions 5+11.

Or maybe the maximums for scholarships and player salaries are increased, and each conference is permitted to set its own minimums and maximums.

Under these constraints, Duke would just buy Clemson. They aren't going anywhere.
I'm sorry you folks couldn't get into these schools but there's no reason to take it out on them.

(01-14-2022 01:56 PM)All4One Wrote:  I interpret the article to suggest a complete Power Conference split. Not so much that the MAC would be going to FCS, but that the MAC could be in a lower division that could very well be between the current FCS and what the Power Conferences--namely the SEC and Greg Sankey--envision for themselves as a division. Nor would the MAC be alone in this. The other four Gang of 5 Conferences would likely be included.

They aren't going to hold some rule or standard in place that anyone can achieve. Ultimately, it comes down to autonomy status vs. non-autonomy status, and it's THAT criteria and splits the Football Bowl Subdivision. It's THAT criteria that Greg Sankey thinks should define the division for his conference and like conferences, and those who are not belong in a different division.

100% this. Sadly, it won't be any different than the Autonomy 5 vs. G5 split that happened when the CFP started.

It won't matter if a conference like the AAC is better on the field than the PAC-12, for instance. They'll just make the split because, like stated above, they have autonomy.

In fact, if the AAC continues to produce NY6 and CFP teams, it will likely make the split happen sooner rather than later.

(01-15-2022 01:55 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  Kansas St had the 3rd best winning % in conference play from 2012-2021. Maybe you meant Kansas, but they cant even beat the MAC teams they regularly schedule.

Perhaps Kansas State isn't the best example. I was trying not to list schools couldn't withstand the MACtion this year, like Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Washington State.