(01-25-2022 10:45 AM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  https://caasports.com/news/2022/1/24/foo...mbers.aspx

Can we leave now???

Serious question: Does anyone have any actual reason to believe that decision makers at UNCW are not okay with the direction the CAA is going (assuming they just voted for this expansion)?

(01-25-2022 11:47 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 10:45 AM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  https://caasports.com/news/2022/1/24/foo...mbers.aspx

Can we leave now???

Serious question: Does anyone have any actual reason to believe that decision makers at UNCW are not okay with the direction the CAA is going (assuming they just voted for this expansion)?

If they voted yes for that, i would hope it was only with 2 Southern schools in their back pocket!

(01-25-2022 11:13 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  Where ya going?

Understood.
But if I had a suggestion: get up with the non-football schools in Big South (UNCA, Winthrop, HPU, Longwood, Radford, Presby) & form a new conference. Other non-football schools (UNCW, CofC, UNCG, etc welcome to join)

(01-25-2022 11:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 11:47 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 10:45 AM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  https://caasports.com/news/2022/1/24/foo...mbers.aspx

Can we leave now???

Serious question: Does anyone have any actual reason to believe that decision makers at UNCW are not okay with the direction the CAA is going (assuming they just voted for this expansion)?

If they voted yes for that, i would hope it was only with 2 Southern schools in their back pocket!

That would assume strategic forethought heretofore not previously displayed.....

(01-25-2022 11:54 AM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 11:13 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  Where ya going?

Understood.
But if I had a suggestion: get up with the non-football schools in Big South (UNCA, Winthrop, HPU, Longwood, Radford, Presby) & form a new conference. Other non-football schools (UNCW, CofC, UNCG, etc welcome to join)

If you form a new conference you don't get an autobid to the NCAA

(01-25-2022 11:58 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  If you form a new conference you don't get an autobid to the NCAA

I could be wrong, but isn't there some rule about 6 schools that have been together for 8 years (or something to that effect) can keep their autobid in a new conference? Otherwise how did the Big East/American split a while back & still have autobids?

Thus, the 6 schools from the Big South are key here.

The link doesn't work for me. WTF happened now?

(01-25-2022 12:02 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  The link doesn't work for me. WTF happened now?

It's just the official announcement that the 3 new schools are joining.

(01-25-2022 12:02 PM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  Thus, the 6 schools from the Big South are key here.

Again, that assumes someone (or more likely a number of someones from a number of schools) is strategically planning some big, bold chessboard move.

Any evidence (beyond hope) that that is happening?

(01-25-2022 12:06 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 12:02 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  The link doesn't work for me. WTF happened now?

It's just the official announcement that the 3 new schools are joining.

Yeah. As previously mentioned, I’m not at all excited about this and I view it as yet another trend in the wrong direction for UNCW and basketball. I don’t see it as helping baseball either. This is squarely a football driven decision.

The evidence? There’s an entire paragraph at the bottom devoted to CAA football and how “great” it is.

Really hoping UNCW leadership didn’t vote for this, but wouldn’t surprise me if they were dumb enough to vote “yes”.


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(01-25-2022 12:57 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  This is squarely a football driven decision.

The evidence? There’s an entire paragraph at the bottom devoted to CAA football and how “great” it is.

^^This^^

The football tail keeps wagging the conference affiliation dog.

If you have ever dealt with lawyers you quickly figure out that they come in two varieties. One variety (the vast majority) will tell you all of the reasons why you can't do/should be cautious of/must avoid doing something that you want to do. They see no way to do what you want to do, and have little to no interest in trying to see it.
The other variety (small minority) will get out the statutes and precedents and try to figure out creative ways to make what you want to happen happen.

While I understand that you "can't just go start up a conference", I also see little to no evidence that our Powers That Be are investing any creative thought at all into figuring out how to get into a non-football playing conference situation.

Hats off to the Atlantic Sun efforts. The Big East split in two and went from one auto bids to two. Instead of telling you all the reasons why other conferences can't do it too, they are trying to figure out ways to make it happen.

(01-25-2022 12:57 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 12:06 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 12:02 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  The link doesn't work for me. WTF happened now?

It's just the official announcement that the 3 new schools are joining.

Yeah. As previously mentioned, I’m not at all excited about this and I view it as yet another trend in the wrong direction for UNCW and basketball. I don’t see it as helping baseball either. This is squarely a football driven decision.

The evidence? There’s an entire paragraph at the bottom devoted to CAA football and how “great” it is.

Really hoping UNCW leadership didn’t vote for this, but wouldn’t surprise me if they were dumb enough to vote “yes”.


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It actually helps basketball and baseball. Both Stony Brook and Monmouth are and have been more highly rated than JMU. And Stony Brook has a top notch baseball program. Hampton isn't good at anything and they hop into the Southern division.

I don't know that there are two southern school in the pocket for the CAA, but by solidifying the N/S divisional setup we've gone from concept to reality. At a minimum our travel is cut substantially across the boards which is good for budget, student athletes and recruiting southern schools. Not ideal because of the adds, but better than where we've been in the past decade and a half.

Now, the hope is that this divisional setup set in stone makes the CAA more attractive to add southern schools we'd approve of. This should also force the hand of the SoCon to either expand and bring on UNCW and CofC or face the increased chance the CAA divisional setup becomes attractive to SoCon schools to make the jump.

I see this as a win/win for UNCW. Our leverage has increased significantly.

(01-25-2022 11:54 AM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  But if I had a suggestion: get up with the non-football schools in Big South (UNCA, Winthrop, HPU, Longwood, Radford, Presby) & form a new conference. Other non-football schools (UNCW, CofC, UNCG, etc welcome to join)

Who would agree to that right now? The NCAA is working on possibly creating a new division of have nots and the autobid doesnt even appear to be on the table right now. Securing into a league that will make the cut into the 2nd tier is the gameplay right now. Rolling the dice to create that perfect situation could easily end up leaving you behind. This is why the CAA is making moves now. I think it is very possible the league splits into 2 leagues down the road, and are protecting each league now ahead of splits. It appears the CAA is still high enough in the pecking order not to be left out. While conference movement will happen again, right now may not be the best time to break off and form that new conference. That is a pretty risky move right now in this landscape, IMO.

A CAA split sure looks possible. Remember the CAA came into existence by breaking away from the ECAC. navy, richmond, gmu, jmu, bill & the virgin, ezu, american & the Dub broke off to form the CAA. Another split could certainly be on the horizon. Bigger may better to an extent. After the "extent", bigger becomes unwieldy. What is the magic number? Who knows?

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(01-25-2022 12:01 PM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 11:58 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  If you form a new conference you don't get an autobid to the NCAA

I could be wrong, but isn't there some rule about 6 schools that have been together for 8 years (or something to that effect) can keep their autobid in a new conference? Otherwise how did the Big East/American split a while back & still have autobids?

The rule changed after the Big East/American spilt

Previously X amount of schools had to play together consecutively for Y years

This allowed for a group of 7 schools to build a new house with no consequence

Now, the rule is a Conference must contain at least 7 schools and have been a conference for at least 8 years

So, if you are starting from scratch, you're new conference X must play together 8 years to establish itself in the eyes of the NCAA

This is why starting a new conference is simply not feasible.

And a 16 team CAA can split in the future without truly hurting any member...

(01-25-2022 01:18 PM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2022 12:57 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  This is squarely a football driven decision.

The evidence? There’s an entire paragraph at the bottom devoted to CAA football and how “great” it is.

^^This^^

The football tail keeps wagging the conference affiliation dog.

If you have ever dealt with lawyers you quickly figure out that they come in two varieties. One variety (the vast majority) will tell you all of the reasons why you can't do/should be cautious of/must avoid doing something that you want to do. They see no way to do what you want to do, and have little to no interest in trying to see it.
The other variety (small minority) will get out the statutes and precedents and try to figure out creative ways to make what you want to happen happen.

While I understand that you "can't just go start up a conference", I also see little to no evidence that our Powers That Be are investing any creative thought at all into figuring out how to get into a non-football playing conference situation.

Hats off to the Atlantic Sun efforts. The Big East split in two and went from one auto bids to two. Instead of telling you all the reasons why other conferences can't do it too, they are trying to figure out ways to make it happen.

The ASun was trying to exploit a potential loophole in the rule.

The commish of the ASun also ran the Coastal Collegiate Sports Association, which sponsored Beach Volleyball and M/W Swimming and Diving.

His thought was that if you could get 14 schools in the ASUN, the 7 non football schools could all at once join the CCSA, and that conference could start sponsoring basketball with an auto bid right away. Since it has been around since 2008 and had 8 years of continuity, just not in basketball, they believe the NCAA would have no choice to give them a basketball bid right off the the bat.

Would it have worked? Who knows, but i just don't think the power conferences would have gone for it. It would have meant expanding the tournament since the number of at larges must be at least 34 by rule.

(01-25-2022 02:50 PM)dan10 Wrote:  And a 16 team CAA can split in the future without truly hurting any member...

The one possibility I can think of for a CAA split would be if the CAA takes Howard and the MEAC collapses.

If the CAA could convince Howard to join, the MEAC would be below NCAA minimums fr sports sponsorship.

Its not unfeasible that this would cause the southern portion of the MEAC (Central, Norfolk, SC State) to work out a deal with the Big South, who is also in need of football schools now that Hampton, Monmouth, Kennesaw, and N Alabama are going elsewhere.

If the MEAC could get ravaged, the schools that do not have a home elsewhere could in theory sell their charter to a conference like the CAA and drop to D2. One of the CAA divisions could then "move" to the MEAC and have an autobid right away without upsetting the applecart. CAA football could continue to exist as is.

I feel like this is a bit of a pipedream though and would require some real vision and leadership to push through the tide. I dont see that anywhere.

(01-25-2022 02:43 PM)Proff Wrote:  A CAA split sure looks possible. Remember the CAA came into existence by breaking away from the ECAC. navy, richmond, gmu, jmu, bill & the virgin, ezu, american & the Dub broke off to form the CAA. Another split could certainly be on the horizon. Bigger may better to an extent. After the "extent", bigger becomes unwieldy. What is the magic number? Who knows?

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If my memory hasn't failed me here, and at times it certainly does. UNCW was not a member of the ECAC. We were an independent. We were accepted into the new CAA in spite of Richmond protesting the move. They didn't think we were academically strong enough. Makes me wonder about their true feelings on EZU.