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CAA: Past, Present, and Future
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B_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #121
CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 04:19 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 03:55 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  Congrats. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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A few years ago he was on here talking about Maine having a better basketball program than UNCW and he was bragging about hockey championships. He likes to argue it seems, but he didn't weigh in on our PG situation. I guess he wasn't interested in talking basketball this go around; an 0-11 record will do that to a fella.


He comes around every now and then. His ban is only for a day. So I’m sure he’ll back tomorrow to whine about it. For the record, if anyone is curious this was a result of his mentioning politics and attacking with it unnecessarily and then when challenged doesn’t respond with facts as they were presented but chose to troll more. Not acceptable.


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(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022 04:30 PM by B_Hawk06.)
01-19-2022 04:29 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #122
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 04:13 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  What is Jeff's point about UofD? What power, pull, influence do they have? I don't understand his conclusion that UofD or W&M are controlling the league. Maybe someone who attends practices can explain this to me.


I believe he was referring to them being the driving forces behind the conference and the fact that of all 9 current CAA schools, they would have the most options to jump ship. Much like losing Richmond made the original CAA-SoCon merger 20 years ago unattractive, losing Delaware would make the CAA North much more unattractive. The same with W&M and the southern division.

If Delaware were to say have joined the AEast, it likely would have been as part of a power play for that conference to gain control of the FCS football league. What would have been left would have been a mismash of northern and southern non football schools in a very unattractive alignment that would have made it hard to build back up.

If W&M were to join the Patriot League, what would be left are 2 southern non football outposts that would get no consideration for anything when it comes to conference decisions

Alternatively, if UNCW and CoC were to say leave for the SoCon, the conference by and large would be unaffected and would use it as an opportunity to consolidate the footprint.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022 04:58 PM by solohawks.)
01-19-2022 04:40 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #123
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 04:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 04:13 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  What is Jeff's point about UofD? What power, pull, influence do they have? I don't understand his conclusion that UofD or W&M are controlling the league. Maybe someone who attends practices can explain this to me.


I believe he was referring to the options them being the driving forces behind the conference and the fact that of all 9 current CAA schools, they would have the most options to jump ship. Much like losing Richmond made the original CAA-SoCon merger 20 years ago unattractive, losing Delaware would make the CAA North much more unattractive. The same with W&M and the southern division.

If Delaware were to say have joined the AEast, it likely would have been as part of a power play for that conference to gain control of the FCS football league. What would have been left would have been a mismash of northern and southern non football schools in a very unattractive alignment that would have made it hard to build back up.

If W&M were to join the Patriot League, what would be left are 3 southern non football outposts that would get no consideration for anything when it comes to conference decisions

Alternatively, if UNCW and CoC were to say leave for the SoCon, the conference by and large would be unaffected and would use it as an opportunity to consolidate the footprint.

Thanks Solo
01-19-2022 04:48 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #124
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
Here is what blows my mind about the CAA as a whole.

When it comes to the CAA football conference the leaders have had no problem at all bringing on schools for only football. As a result, CAA football is one of the best FCS conferences in the country. But when it comes to CAA basketball, those in charge seem to INSIST that we bring on schools that have football. Why is that? When you already have a formula in place for a strong football conference you ignore that formula when it comes to basketball? Makes no sense whatsoever.

The CAA has basically made it possible for both the A10 and the Big East to have conferences without football, at the expense of CAA basketball. Just take a look at the schools in CAA football that are not playing CAA basketball and how good our conference basketball would be if some of them were full members.

If the CAA were smart(and they aren't), they would now focus on improving CAA basketball regardles of who does and doesn't have football. CAA football will be fine no matter who CAA basketball expands.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022 05:38 PM by 82hawk.)
01-19-2022 05:05 PM
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tke75hawk Offline
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Post: #125
CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
I love and watch a lot of football but not the level of football in the caa. I was told in the fall that the move was to improve basketball not football by adding new schools.

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01-19-2022 05:34 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #126
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 05:34 PM)tke75hawk Wrote:  I love and watch a lot of football but not the level of football in the caa. I was told in the fall that the move was to improve basketball not football by adding new schools.

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Sorry but Hampton, Monmouth and Stonybrook don't move that needle.
01-19-2022 05:38 PM
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B_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #127
CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 05:38 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 05:34 PM)tke75hawk Wrote:  I love and watch a lot of football but not the level of football in the caa. I was told in the fall that the move was to improve basketball not football by adding new schools.

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Sorry but Hampton, Monmouth and Stonybrook don't move that needle.


Agree. If that needle moves… it’s not in a good direction.


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01-19-2022 06:00 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #128
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 06:00 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 05:38 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 05:34 PM)tke75hawk Wrote:  I love and watch a lot of football but not the level of football in the caa. I was told in the fall that the move was to improve basketball not football by adding new schools.

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Sorry but Hampton, Monmouth and Stonybrook don't move that needle.


Agree. If that needle moves… it’s not in a good direction.


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Not ideal, but a much better setup if we go to N/S divisions than we have now or in the recent past. I also think this opens the door for southern expansion now that the conference footprint will shrink significantly. Maybe too little, too late, but this move that makes divisions likely is one of the best the CAA has made in my memory. Should have done this a decade ago.
01-19-2022 06:10 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #129
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
I was surprised to see that Monmouth basketball hasn't been all that good lately. They won 27 games in back to back years in 2015-16 and 2016-17, reaching the NIT both seasons, but they followed that up with 3 straight seasons finishing outside of the top 200 of the RPI.

They've had the same HC since 2011 so I don't know what explains that kind of volatility...
01-19-2022 06:12 PM
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Seahawk2010 Offline
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Post: #130
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 06:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  I was surprised to see that Monmouth basketball hasn't been all that good lately. They won 27 games in back to back years in 2015-16 and 2016-17, reaching the NIT both seasons, but they followed that up with 3 straight seasons finishing outside of the top 200 of the RPI.

They've had the same HC since 2011 so I don't know what explains that kind of volatility...

Other than 2 bad rebuilding years after back to back first place finishes, King Rice has been solid at Monmouth. Monmouth is the one team that actually somewhat excites me with this expansion.
01-19-2022 06:44 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #131
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 06:44 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 06:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  I was surprised to see that Monmouth basketball hasn't been all that good lately. They won 27 games in back to back years in 2015-16 and 2016-17, reaching the NIT both seasons, but they followed that up with 3 straight seasons finishing outside of the top 200 of the RPI.

They've had the same HC since 2011 so I don't know what explains that kind of volatility...

Other than 2 bad rebuilding years after back to back first place finishes, King Rice has been solid at Monmouth. Monmouth is the one team that actually somewhat excites me with this expansion.

In MAAC play, you're right. Since 2016-17, they've finished t-7th, 6th, t-3rd and 2nd. Somehow they were named co-regular season champs last year despite finishing 12-6, while Siena went 12-4.

But in a bad conference like that, I would have hoped for a bit more. No true regular season titles since 2017 and no NCAA Tournament bids since 2006 is not what I expected to find when I looked at their history.

And so far this season, they're in 7th place at 2-3.
01-19-2022 06:56 PM
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Seahawk2010 Offline
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Post: #132
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 06:56 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 06:44 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 06:12 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  I was surprised to see that Monmouth basketball hasn't been all that good lately. They won 27 games in back to back years in 2015-16 and 2016-17, reaching the NIT both seasons, but they followed that up with 3 straight seasons finishing outside of the top 200 of the RPI.

They've had the same HC since 2011 so I don't know what explains that kind of volatility...

Other than 2 bad rebuilding years after back to back first place finishes, King Rice has been solid at Monmouth. Monmouth is the one team that actually somewhat excites me with this expansion.

In MAAC play, you're right. Since 2016-17, they've finished t-7th, 6th, t-3rd and 2nd. Somehow they were named co-regular season champs last year despite finishing 12-6, while Siena went 12-4.

But in a bad conference like that, I would have hoped for a bit more. No true regular season titles since 2017 and no NCAA Tournament bids since 2006 is not what I expected to find when I looked at their history.

And so far this season, they're in 7th place at 2-3.

Agreed, going strictly by name from the past 10 years I expected better results too. Maybe I’m remembering too much the year they beat 5 power teams and were one of the “first four out” at large teams in the NCAA Tournament. Sucks when you lose in the conference tournament after winning the regular season back to back years. Gotta love life of a mid major!
01-19-2022 07:39 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #133
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 07:39 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  Agreed, going strictly by name from the past 10 years I expected better results too. Maybe I’m remembering too much the year they beat 5 power teams and were one of the “first four out” at large teams in the NCAA Tournament. Sucks when you lose in the conference tournament after winning the regular season back to back years. Gotta love life of a mid major!

Exactly. I thought for sure they had reached the NCAA Tournament at least one of those years. They certainly deserved the opportunity.
01-19-2022 07:42 PM
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70shawk Offline
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Post: #134
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-19-2022 06:10 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Maybe too little, too late, but this move that makes divisions likely is one of the best the CAA has made in my memory. Should have done this a decade ago.

Talk about 'damning by faint praise'! That's like the old joke about the mother telling her kid that if he couldn't say anything nice about someone he shouldn't say anything at all, then the kid telling the next person he saw, "Gee, for a fat lady, you don't sweat much!"

The CAA has lost Richmond, George Mason, ODU, JMU, Navy (and on and on), and keeps replacing them (for the most part) with schools with which UNCW would never have originally aligned itself. UNCW has never been able (or really tried?) to find a better house in which to move, so we keep finding ourselves affiliated with a growing and far-flung collection of football-centric programs (Stonybrook?? Monmouth?? No offense , but has there been a UNCW fan - ever - that has said they can't wait to see that matchup?)

So somehow we have gone from being one of 8 teams fighting for an NCAA tournament bid, to being one of maybe 14 teams with two divisions (and a FloSports deal) fighting for the same thing - and we are supposed to think JoeyD, et al, are being smart because the southern division has a geographic footprint roughly the size of the original CAA.

I hope the rumors of a new-look Southern Conference are true.
01-20-2022 06:33 AM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #135
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-20-2022 06:33 AM)70shawk Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 06:10 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Maybe too little, too late, but this move that makes divisions likely is one of the best the CAA has made in my memory. Should have done this a decade ago.

Talk about 'damning by faint praise'! That's like the old joke about the mother telling her kid that if he couldn't say anything nice about someone he shouldn't say anything at all, then the kid telling the next person he saw, "Gee, for a fat lady, you don't sweat much!"

The CAA has lost Richmond, George Mason, ODU, JMU, Navy (and on and on), and keeps replacing them (for the most part) with schools with which UNCW would never have originally aligned itself. UNCW has never been able (or really tried?) to find a better house in which to move, so we keep finding ourselves affiliated with a growing and far-flung collection of football-centric programs (Stonybrook?? Monmouth?? No offense , but has there been a UNCW fan - ever - that has said they can't wait to see that matchup?)

So somehow we have gone from being one of 8 teams fighting for an NCAA tournament bid, to being one of maybe 14 teams with two divisions (and a FloSports deal) fighting for the same thing - and we are supposed to think JoeyD, et al, are being smart because the southern division has a geographic footprint roughly the size of the original CAA.

I hope the rumors of a new-look Southern Conference are true.

Have you looked at the history of the SoCon and all the schools they have lost? The difference is our leadership versus theirs. If we have no place to go at this time, then our only other option is to perform a house cleaning in the Commissioner's office. The SoCon has lost some big schools over the decades. But, even when they have been down, their leadership has kept them together with a strong mission statement.
01-20-2022 08:50 AM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #136
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
The good news is the basketball team is playing well and winning and then there is this BS again . We all know that UNCW will go along with whatever the CAA comes up with and Bass will come out and give a little song and dance about it-the end .
01-20-2022 09:21 AM
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B_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #137
CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-20-2022 09:21 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  The good news is the basketball team is playing well and winning and then there is this BS again . We all know that UNCW will go along with whatever the CAA comes up with and Bass will come out and give a little song and dance about it-the end .


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01-20-2022 09:23 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #138
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-20-2022 08:50 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(01-20-2022 06:33 AM)70shawk Wrote:  
(01-19-2022 06:10 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Maybe too little, too late, but this move that makes divisions likely is one of the best the CAA has made in my memory. Should have done this a decade ago.

Talk about 'damning by faint praise'! That's like the old joke about the mother telling her kid that if he couldn't say anything nice about someone he shouldn't say anything at all, then the kid telling the next person he saw, "Gee, for a fat lady, you don't sweat much!"

The CAA has lost Richmond, George Mason, ODU, JMU, Navy (and on and on), and keeps replacing them (for the most part) with schools with which UNCW would never have originally aligned itself. UNCW has never been able (or really tried?) to find a better house in which to move, so we keep finding ourselves affiliated with a growing and far-flung collection of football-centric programs (Stonybrook?? Monmouth?? No offense , but has there been a UNCW fan - ever - that has said they can't wait to see that matchup?)

So somehow we have gone from being one of 8 teams fighting for an NCAA tournament bid, to being one of maybe 14 teams with two divisions (and a FloSports deal) fighting for the same thing - and we are supposed to think JoeyD, et al, are being smart because the southern division has a geographic footprint roughly the size of the original CAA.

I hope the rumors of a new-look Southern Conference are true.

Have you looked at the history of the SoCon and all the schools they have lost? The difference is our leadership versus theirs. If we have no place to go at this time, then our only other option is to perform a house cleaning in the Commissioner's office. The SoCon has lost some big schools over the decades. But, even when they have been down, their leadership has kept them together with a strong mission statement.

The difference is the Southern conference didn't bring in schools from New York, Philidelphia and Boston when schools departed. The far flung reach of an average mid major conference is the problem with the CAA. That's the reason a divisional setup may be the saving grace for the conference. If you focus on the quality of the schools academically, and the fact they are generally large schools, the schools themselves are attractive.

The A10 is a pretty spread out conference, but they would be the top target for a non football school like UNCW on the east coast. Every other east coast conference Uhas a split allegiance of football/non football schools. The real difference in the SoCon is that don't allow schools to "park" their football schools there while they have full membership of all other sports elsewhere. The CAA sold it's soul for FCS football, allowing other schools to enjoy full membership elsewhere. Like the old saying, "why buy the cow when the milk is free?" Makes you wonder what schools in the A10 and Big East would do if the CAA required full membership if they wanted CAA football?
01-20-2022 09:36 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #139
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
82, you keep talking about how important having divisions is. I thought the whole point of a north-south conference was to expand UNCW's recruitment footprint and be able to recruit kids from up north?

Mind you, I am in favor of anything that reduces travel costs. That is by far the most burdensome expenditure in the department that would go away with a move to the SoCon, A-Sun, or Big South, and hopefully in the process bringing along Charleston and perhaps 1-2 of the other southern CAA schools with us.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2022 10:05 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-20-2022 10:03 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #140
RE: CAA Expanding with Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton
(01-20-2022 10:03 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  82, you keep talking about how important having divisions is. I thought the whole point of a north-south conference was to expand UNCW's recruitment footprint and be able to recruit kids from up north?

Mind you, I am in favor of anything that reduces travel costs. That is by far the most burdensome expenditure in the department that would go away with a move to the SoCon, A-Sun, or Big South, and hopefully in the process bringing along Charleston and perhaps 1-2 of the other southern CAA schools with us.

I think from an administration perspective its a two fold discussion

Yes you want small travel costs, but a conference often becomes your peer group

If you're UNCW, do you want your peer group to be VMI and the Citadel or Hofstra and Northeastern.

Going to divisions gives an administrator the best of both worlds, association with the northeastern private schools and exposure up there with greatly reduced travel costs limiting the majority of your travel to a more geographic friendly area.
01-20-2022 10:09 AM
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