(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

(01-16-2022 11:50 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 07:12 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 01:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  wow-

I don't know about USC but I believe there wasn't the usual fan crowd at UCLA for that game so it still deserves an asterisk. COVID-19 is still screwing over this season!

UCLA and USC are not allowing any fan attendance at any athletic event. UCLA went 25 days without playing a game. It sucks and it makes no sense. Last Sunday, the 49ers played the Rams at SoFi Stadium in front of a record crowd of 74,447 fans. A few hours later, the Grizzlies played the Lakers in front of 19,000 fans. The NFL and NBA allow vaccinated fans, the colleges are saying no fans.

Those are school decisions, not government decisions. Cal still has fans in the stands at home games.

As for the game at SoFi... maybe if the 49ers make it to the Super Bowl, they'll have as many fans at SoFi as they had for that game against the Rams last week.

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

Memphis had 6 of their top 9 players playing by minutes played this year. Everyone has disruptions this year. Part of the year. Go look at what teams like Providence and Seton Hall have done. Or Nova for that matter.

Would also say they weren't disrupted enough to be able to be leading 44-30 at halftime. To go from +14 to losing 2nd half by 42-27- that's on coaching.

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I'd even say a guy who right now looks like a success coming back to coach at where he went to school is Juwan Howard- and he's having a very difficult season. Them and Memphis probably the 2 biggest disappointments of the year right now.

(01-16-2022 09:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Memphis had 6 of their top 9 players playing by minutes played this year. Everyone has disruptions this year. Part of the year. Go look at what teams like Providence and Seton Hall have done. Or Nova for that matter.

Would also say they weren't disrupted enough to be able to be leading 44-30 at halftime. To go from +14 to losing 2nd half by 42-27- that's on coaching.

I would also say that a lot of the disruptions that Memphis has had this season came directly as a result of the team not being vaccinated and Hardaway not knowing that was the case.... So, sort of self inflicted.

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I agree fully with you on your point about these type coaches. And, yes, you have been consistent about this argument — being critical of other programs, too.

Tubby was a disaster on so many levels, and I say that with all due respect to the man because 1. he is a strong coach and 2. he seems like an honorable enough human being. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone (though I wish him well).

Hardaway got Memphis back in the "spotlight" again (look at all the positive national pub focused on the program) — and for that alone his hiring has been a partial success. Having said that, he is not a very skilled on-the-floor coach. Furthermore, Penny seemingly has personality and communications flaws that suggest he is not a fully evolved person (ala former Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings). Some of his comments off the court, his body language on the court, etc., have been simply odd at the least and disturbing at the worst.

To be fair, GW11, you have been complementary of Memphis many times with past posts. Perhaps I'm sensitive because the Tiger season has imploded — and I could use some thicker skin to stomach it. And I know you would not take a cheap shot at me specifically. But I do politely request (as I have of a lot of folks on the board) that you consider that timing (Memphis had just lost in an embarrassing and disheartening fashion) and context are more important at some posting times than they are at others. If I have to stop posting on this board tomorrow due to some horrific reason, I hope that my "legacy" will be that I tried to inject civility and balance (notwithstanding my sometimes juvenile and absurd references to myself in hypothetically compromising situations — often with a unicycle).

You are always (as is everybody on the board) welcome to criticize me. I know there are times I deserve it. Thanks for handling my criticism of you in a pleasant manner.

On an unrelated note, major props to Marquette and the stupendous job SSmart is doing. I give full credit. You should be highly pleased and optimistic.

(01-16-2022 09:50 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I'd even say a guy who right now looks like a success coming back to coach at where he went to school is Juwan Howard- and he's having a very difficult season. Them and Memphis probably the 2 biggest disappointments of the year right now.

Agree. And I would add Belmont.

(01-16-2022 10:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Memphis had 6 of their top 9 players playing by minutes played this year. Everyone has disruptions this year. Part of the year. Go look at what teams like Providence and Seton Hall have done. Or Nova for that matter.

Would also say they weren't disrupted enough to be able to be leading 44-30 at halftime. To go from +14 to losing 2nd half by 42-27- that's on coaching.

I would also say that a lot of the disruptions that Memphis has had this season came directly as a result of the team not being vaccinated and Hardaway not knowing that was the case.... So, sort of self inflicted.

And that point (very valid, too) would be a good reason for Hardaway to be dismissed. That was a disaster and PH deserves full blame.

(01-16-2022 09:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Memphis had 6 of their top 9 players playing by minutes played this year. Everyone has disruptions this year. Part of the year. Go look at what teams like Providence and Seton Hall have done. Or Nova for that matter.

Would also say they weren't disrupted enough to be able to be leading 44-30 at halftime. To go from +14 to losing 2nd half by 42-27- that's on coaching.

ECU earned the win. I give full props. And I recognize other teams have had personnel losses. So I'm not asking for pity for Memphis — nor I'm I making excuses. We lost.

But the top three players Memphis was missing (of five overall who were out) are averaging a collective 26 ppg, 15 rpg and 5 apg. That's a decent bit of firepower. Most importantly, the Tigers were missing their leader (and heart and soul): DeAndre Williams. Memphis is 8-4 when Williams has played and 1-3 when he hasn't.

Regardless, and as you correctly note, Memphis suffered a major meltdown in the game and is strongly deserving of appropriate and constructive criticism.

(01-16-2022 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 10:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I have been very critical of Penny Hardaway in multiple posts for a few years now. He clearly is in over his head in some respects. And I don't necessarily foresee things improving. By this time next year, Memphis will likely be preparing to move on with a coaching change.

But Memphis was missing five players today, including its heart and soul (senior DeAndre Williams) and its top-notch sixth man (Landers Nolley, last year's NIT MVP). Memphis is also without senior point guard Alex Lomax (though a so-so player, he is the only true point guard on the roster and had been a starter). The Tigers played only seven scholarship players on the road against a very improved ECU team.

No excuses for the Tiger loss to a program that historically has been painfully mid-major. But if we're going to be critical of Hardaway (and we should), let's also be fully forthcoming and fair and note the significant personnel losses the program has suffered (most of the season, in fact). If S20 and GW11 are unaware of those personnel losses, fair enough. However, if they are aware and purposely declined to fairly acknowledge ...

This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I agree fully with you on your point about these type coaches. And, yes, you have been consistent about this argument — being critical of other programs, too.

Tubby was a disaster on so many levels, and I say that with all due respect to the man because 1. he is a strong coach and 2. he seems like an honorable enough human being. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone (though I wish him well).

Hardaway got Memphis back in the "spotlight" again (look at all the positive national pub focused on the program) — and for that alone his hiring has been a partial success. Having said that, he is not a very skilled on-the-floor coach. Furthermore, Penny seemingly has personality and communications flaws that suggest he is not a fully evolved person (ala former Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings). Some of his comments off the court, his body language on the court, etc., have been simply odd at the least and disturbing at the worst.

To be fair, GW11, you have been complementary of Memphis many times with past posts. Perhaps I'm sensitive because the Tiger season has imploded — and I could use some thicker skin to stomach it. And I know you would not take a cheap shot at me specifically. But I do politely request (as I have of a lot of folks on the board) that you consider that timing (Memphis had just lost in an embarrassing and disheartening fashion) and context are more important at some posting times than they are at others. If I have to stop posting on this board tomorrow due to some horrific reason, I hope that my "legacy" will be that I tried to inject civility and balance (notwithstanding my sometimes juvenile and absurd references to myself in hypothetically compromising situations — often with a unicycle).

You are always (as is everybody on the board) welcome to criticize me. I know there are times I deserve it. Thanks for handling my criticism of you in a pleasant manner.

On an unrelated note, major props to Marquette and the stupendous job SSmart is doing. I give full credit. You should be highly pleased and optimistic.

As a fan, being in purgatory (not good enough to make NCAAT, but not bad enough to make immediate change) is terrible. Marquette was in that phase for several years under Wojo. Memphis has been in it under both Tubby and Penny. When you have the resources and history, it makes it all the more frustrating.

MU is projected to lose/be an underdog in next six games. “Stealing” the Hall game was huge. Still work to do on the resume, but we - for the first time since 2013 - have a winning identity (and a reputation of no one wanting to play due to style of play). Games are, once again, enjoyable.

The right hire can turn things around in a year.

(01-16-2022 10:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I agree fully with you on your point about these type coaches. And, yes, you have been consistent about this argument — being critical of other programs, too.

Tubby was a disaster on so many levels, and I say that with all due respect to the man because 1. he is a strong coach and 2. he seems like an honorable enough human being. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone (though I wish him well).

Hardaway got Memphis back in the "spotlight" again (look at all the positive national pub focused on the program) — and for that alone his hiring has been a partial success. Having said that, he is not a very skilled on-the-floor coach. Furthermore, Penny seemingly has personality and communications flaws that suggest he is not a fully evolved person (ala former Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings). Some of his comments off the court, his body language on the court, etc., have been simply odd at the least and disturbing at the worst.

To be fair, GW11, you have been complementary of Memphis many times with past posts. Perhaps I'm sensitive because the Tiger season has imploded — and I could use some thicker skin to stomach it. And I know you would not take a cheap shot at me specifically. But I do politely request (as I have of a lot of folks on the board) that you consider that timing (Memphis had just lost in an embarrassing and disheartening fashion) and context are more important at some posting times than they are at others. If I have to stop posting on this board tomorrow due to some horrific reason, I hope that my "legacy" will be that I tried to inject civility and balance (notwithstanding my sometimes juvenile and absurd references to myself in hypothetically compromising situations — often with a unicycle).

You are always (as is everybody on the board) welcome to criticize me. I know there are times I deserve it. Thanks for handling my criticism of you in a pleasant manner.

On an unrelated note, major props to Marquette and the stupendous job SSmart is doing. I give full credit. You should be highly pleased and optimistic.

As a fan, being in purgatory (not good enough to make NCAAT, but not bad enough to make immediate change) is terrible. Marquette was in that phase for several years under Wojo. Memphis has been in it under both Tubby and Penny. When you have the resources and history, it makes it all the more frustrating.

MU is projected to lose/be an underdog in next six games. “Stealing” the Hall game was huge. Still work to do on the resume, but we - for the first time since 2013 - have a winning identity (and a reputation of no one wanting to play due to style of play). Games are, once again, enjoyable.

The right hire can turn things around in a year.

yep and would say especially with the transfer portal that's the case.

(01-16-2022 10:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 03:19 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  This. As an ECU fan, I know we were lucky to come away with the win.

People hate on Penny, but he's putting the pieces together. Didn't he recruit two 5-star guys last year? When those guys get on the court, Memphis will be a monster.

Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I agree fully with you on your point about these type coaches. And, yes, you have been consistent about this argument — being critical of other programs, too.

Tubby was a disaster on so many levels, and I say that with all due respect to the man because 1. he is a strong coach and 2. he seems like an honorable enough human being. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone (though I wish him well).

Hardaway got Memphis back in the "spotlight" again (look at all the positive national pub focused on the program) — and for that alone his hiring has been a partial success. Having said that, he is not a very skilled on-the-floor coach. Furthermore, Penny seemingly has personality and communications flaws that suggest he is not a fully evolved person (ala former Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings). Some of his comments off the court, his body language on the court, etc., have been simply odd at the least and disturbing at the worst.

To be fair, GW11, you have been complementary of Memphis many times with past posts. Perhaps I'm sensitive because the Tiger season has imploded — and I could use some thicker skin to stomach it. And I know you would not take a cheap shot at me specifically. But I do politely request (as I have of a lot of folks on the board) that you consider that timing (Memphis had just lost in an embarrassing and disheartening fashion) and context are more important at some posting times than they are at others. If I have to stop posting on this board tomorrow due to some horrific reason, I hope that my "legacy" will be that I tried to inject civility and balance (notwithstanding my sometimes juvenile and absurd references to myself in hypothetically compromising situations — often with a unicycle).

You are always (as is everybody on the board) welcome to criticize me. I know there are times I deserve it. Thanks for handling my criticism of you in a pleasant manner.

On an unrelated note, major props to Marquette and the stupendous job SSmart is doing. I give full credit. You should be highly pleased and optimistic.

As a fan, being in purgatory (not good enough to make NCAAT, but not bad enough to make immediate change) is terrible. Marquette was in that phase for several years under Wojo. Memphis has been in it under both Tubby and Penny. When you have the resources and history, it makes it all the more frustrating.

MU is projected to lose/be an underdog in next six games. “Stealing” the Hall game was huge. Still work to do on the resume, but we - for the first time since 2013 - have a winning identity (and a reputation of no one wanting to play due to style of play). Games are, once again, enjoyable.

The right hire can turn things around in a year.

Agree fully on the Memphis assessment. I've got some thoughts on the next coach if Penny steps down after next season. It is purgatory, indeed.

As to Marquette, I have seen only bits and pieces but have been impressed. When the "Warriors" (and the use of that moniker is to honor the memory of the late Jerome Whitehead, because that man always went to battle) lost Dawson Garcia ... I was skeptical. But Shaka and the entire program have stayed focused and improved compared to last year's squad.

(01-16-2022 10:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 10:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 10:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:28 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 04:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Congrats for the win, CJuan. The Pirate basketball program is clearly trending in a positive direction.

I don't mind constructive criticism made of any of the programs I follow (and I've read a lot aimed at Vanderbilt and Memphis, to be sure). But when a poster offers criticism with a seemingly dismissive tone and/or snide word choice while failing to offer context (either unwittingly or purposely), I will step up and call that poster out.

GW11 did just that with this line:

At least Memphis can say they sold tickets by firing Tubby and hiring Penny.

GW11 is one of the "good ones" on this board and he knows I respect him. As such, I expect better of him. I found the above comment to be a cheap shot given he did not acknowledge all the personnel losses Memphis has suffered this year. And if he was unaware of those losses, he should have made an attempt to find out before he offered a caustic zinger.

As to Stever20, he posts so much he might not have had the desire to take the time to see if the Tiger program has experienced personnel disruptions.

I'm not here to defend Penny Hardaway. He has been a failure in some respects, no doubt. And I agree with GW11's overall point about ex-standout players struggling to be successful coaches.

But fair is fair. And when I don't see fairness on this board (and this is addressed to GW11 and S20), I'm going to post my displeasure. Just like I would expect anybody to do likewise with me.

My comment about tickets was in reference to the explanation and rationale that Memphis gave in firing Tubby Smith, a HOF coach. The school said it’s ticket sales and donations were down, in addition to not making the NCAAT in either of Tubby’s two seasons, as HC at Memphis. Ok - the bar was set.

Penny has not made the NCAAT in any of his first three years as HC, and won’t make the NCAAT this year unless it wins the AACT. Penny will not be fired this Spring, unless the team finishes with a losing record or has another scandal. So, what is the difference? He will stay for next year because his name sells tickets and encourages donations to the school, despite continuing to under-perform as HC. Goes against the precedent that was set under Tubby.

My comment wasn’t only directed at Memphis, either. St. John’s screwed up badly in hiring Mullin. Georgetown, another alma mater of mine, also made a colossally terrible hire in Ewing. When Marquette opened last Spring, a number of fellow fans wanted Wade as HC. NBA alumni with zero college coaching experience are set up to fail as collegiate head coaches, unless it is a tremendously unique and ideal situation. These “coaches” don’t like or even understand how to recruit 18-year olds to play together in a system. It is always frustrating to me when school leaders, administrators and athletic departments favor these hires over other candidates that are experienced college coaches - head and assistant. There are many worthy of a power conference (or high major, to those that get offended at power conference label in college basketball) opportunity. These hires set programs back years and the fans of those schools lose twice (in the program’s fall and having former star players’ recognition negatively impacted).

/rant

No cheap shots intended, Bill. Apologies if it came off as such.

I agree fully with you on your point about these type coaches. And, yes, you have been consistent about this argument — being critical of other programs, too.

Tubby was a disaster on so many levels, and I say that with all due respect to the man because 1. he is a strong coach and 2. he seems like an honorable enough human being. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone (though I wish him well).

Hardaway got Memphis back in the "spotlight" again (look at all the positive national pub focused on the program) — and for that alone his hiring has been a partial success. Having said that, he is not a very skilled on-the-floor coach. Furthermore, Penny seemingly has personality and communications flaws that suggest he is not a fully evolved person (ala former Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings). Some of his comments off the court, his body language on the court, etc., have been simply odd at the least and disturbing at the worst.

To be fair, GW11, you have been complementary of Memphis many times with past posts. Perhaps I'm sensitive because the Tiger season has imploded — and I could use some thicker skin to stomach it. And I know you would not take a cheap shot at me specifically. But I do politely request (as I have of a lot of folks on the board) that you consider that timing (Memphis had just lost in an embarrassing and disheartening fashion) and context are more important at some posting times than they are at others. If I have to stop posting on this board tomorrow due to some horrific reason, I hope that my "legacy" will be that I tried to inject civility and balance (notwithstanding my sometimes juvenile and absurd references to myself in hypothetically compromising situations — often with a unicycle).

You are always (as is everybody on the board) welcome to criticize me. I know there are times I deserve it. Thanks for handling my criticism of you in a pleasant manner.

On an unrelated note, major props to Marquette and the stupendous job SSmart is doing. I give full credit. You should be highly pleased and optimistic.

As a fan, being in purgatory (not good enough to make NCAAT, but not bad enough to make immediate change) is terrible. Marquette was in that phase for several years under Wojo. Memphis has been in it under both Tubby and Penny. When you have the resources and history, it makes it all the more frustrating.

MU is projected to lose/be an underdog in next six games. “Stealing” the Hall game was huge. Still work to do on the resume, but we - for the first time since 2013 - have a winning identity (and a reputation of no one wanting to play due to style of play). Games are, once again, enjoyable.

The right hire can turn things around in a year.

yep and would say especially with the transfer portal that's the case.

Correct. The portal has significantly changed things.

(01-16-2022 06:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 11:50 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 07:12 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 01:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  wow-

I don't know about USC but I believe there wasn't the usual fan crowd at UCLA for that game so it still deserves an asterisk. COVID-19 is still screwing over this season!

UCLA and USC are not allowing any fan attendance at any athletic event. UCLA went 25 days without playing a game. It sucks and it makes no sense. Last Sunday, the 49ers played the Rams at SoFi Stadium in front of a record crowd of 74,447 fans. A few hours later, the Grizzlies played the Lakers in front of 19,000 fans. The NFL and NBA allow vaccinated fans, the colleges are saying no fans.

Those are school decisions, not government decisions. Cal still has fans in the stands at home games.

As for the game at SoFi... maybe if the 49ers make it to the Super Bowl, they'll have as many fans at SoFi as they had for that game against the Rams last week.

I realize that UCLA and USC are school decisions, just seems like an overreaction by the schools, while nothing has changed for LA County as far as pro sports goes. That overreaction by UCLA cost them a bowl game.

Anytime the Raiders or 49ers are playing in SoFi, you can expect their fans to take over the stadium. I was at the Chargers-Raiders game in Las Vegas that day and easily half of the fans there were from California. The airport was packed with Raider fans, the hotels were packed with Raider fans. There were a few Charger fans around as well. So yeah, I think the 49er fans will take over SoFi if they get to the Super Bowl. I never see the same level of passion from Chargers and Rams fans.