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2022 Football Depth Chart
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 08:16 AM)eroc Wrote:  i think a question that needs to be asked is if we stay with a 3 man front. Tressel, iirc, is a four DL guy previously and he's talked about how much the players and other coaches have helped him get up to speed on the 3-3-5. i wonder, given our losses in the secondary, whether we shift to a four man front, where we are comparatively stronger, to alleviate some of the pressure on the secondary?

It's an interesting question for sure. With as spread out as the game has become everyone's starting 5 DBs so your options are 3-3 or 4-2. Given what's been discussed about the strength of our linebackers and our one returning spot we know is a big strength is our 2 snipers I can't see not going 3-3 up front often. Especially since we don't have a traditional edge rusher we'll be bigger and stronger up front but will probably need to blitz with LBs to get pressure.
 
01-12-2022 09:13 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 09:13 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 08:16 AM)eroc Wrote:  i think a question that needs to be asked is if we stay with a 3 man front. Tressel, iirc, is a four DL guy previously and he's talked about how much the players and other coaches have helped him get up to speed on the 3-3-5. i wonder, given our losses in the secondary, whether we shift to a four man front, where we are comparatively stronger, to alleviate some of the pressure on the secondary?

It's an interesting question for sure. With as spread out as the game has become everyone's starting 5 DBs so your options are 3-3 or 4-2. Given what's been discussed about the strength of our linebackers and our one returning spot we know is a big strength is our 2 snipers I can't see not going 3-3 up front often. Especially since we don't have a traditional edge rusher we'll be bigger and stronger up front but will probably need to blitz with LBs to get pressure.

My guess would be we have a hybrid 3.5-2.5 front (Huber becomes a two-point guy on the line) in passing downs moving forward much like we played in the first two years with Ethan Tucky.
 
01-12-2022 09:39 AM
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Post: #23
RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 08:16 AM)eroc Wrote:  i think a question that needs to be asked is if we stay with a 3 man front. Tressel, iirc, is a four DL guy previously and he's talked about how much the players and other coaches have helped him get up to speed on the 3-3-5. i wonder, given our losses in the secondary, whether we shift to a four man front, where we are comparatively stronger, to alleviate some of the pressure on the secondary?

Can't we do 3-3 and 4-2 when needed to stop heavy run teams. Tulsa, Navy and AL exposed the weakness of our 3-3 on heavy running.
 
01-12-2022 09:44 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 09:44 AM)doss2 Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 08:16 AM)eroc Wrote:  i think a question that needs to be asked is if we stay with a 3 man front. Tressel, iirc, is a four DL guy previously and he's talked about how much the players and other coaches have helped him get up to speed on the 3-3-5. i wonder, given our losses in the secondary, whether we shift to a four man front, where we are comparatively stronger, to alleviate some of the pressure on the secondary?

Can't we do 3-3 and 4-2 when needed to stop heavy run teams. Tulsa, Navy and AL exposed the weakness of our 3-3 on heavy running.

Yes, I think that's the way to go...the bigger issue to me is the fact that we ran a 4-4 against Navy the last time we played them and basically ground them to a halt, but thought we could get away with a 3-3 this year and almost got nipped for it. I don't care if we're 3-3 stack, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc...my biggest issue is that we ran base so damn much and just relied on the talent gap that there was almost nothing new to scheme against for most teams in the later half of the year. We need to be more multiple now in order to keep teams off balance, seeing as how our talent gap on defense vs. most of our opponents' offenses is no longer anywhere near as large.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2022 09:49 AM by BearcatMan.)
01-12-2022 09:47 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 09:47 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Yes, I think that's the way to go...the bigger issue to me is the fact that we ran a 4-4 against Navy the last time we played them and basically ground them to a halt, but thought we could get away with a 3-3 this year and almost got nipped for it. I don't care if we're 3-3 stack, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc...my biggest issue is that we ran base so damn much and just relied on the talent gap that there was almost nothing new to scheme against for most teams in the later half of the year. We need to be more multiple now in order to keep teams off balance, seeing as how our talent gap on defense vs. most of our opponents' offenses is no longer anywhere near as large.

I think it's more of an implementation issue than an alignment. Everyone's base defense is some sort of nickel yet even when we were getting plowed in the run game vs Tulsa and Bama we didn't bring safety's up into the box. How the front 6 breaks down doesn't really matter to me; if you're not willing to bring 7 and 8 into the box occasionally. You could go 5-1-5 and it doesn't really matter if the back 5 are all staying back. I listened to Joel Klatt on Ryen Rusillo's podcast and he was very critical of Fickell being willing to sit back and die a slow death without making them testing the corners.
 
01-12-2022 11:45 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
Dying the slow death put us in an 11 point game going into the 4th quarter. The biggest play of the game was their 44-yard TD pass with 1:30 to go in the half, which was exactly the type of play we were scheming to prevent. Before that we limited the big chunk plays and kept Bryce Young in check. Same game plan they've used before but the difference is that Bama was efficient in the red zone and our offense did nothing to put pressure on them. If Bryce Young throws that pick in the 3rd quarter and it's a 1 score game (instead of a 14 point spread) the 4th quarter looks completely different. Even still, we had a chance to capitalize on those types of mistakes late because the defense was getting stops, and getting off the field, even though they gave up a lot of first downs.

Also, Brian Robinson had a career day but we held the Heisman winner (and best passing offense in the country) to his lowest passing total on the year (and second lowest Yards/Attempt).
 
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2022 11:56 AM by Cataclysmo.)
01-12-2022 11:51 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
WR Jordan Jones has entered the portal
 
01-12-2022 11:56 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 09:47 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Yes, I think that's the way to go...the bigger issue to me is the fact that we ran a 4-4 against Navy the last time we played them and basically ground them to a halt, but thought we could get away with a 3-3 this year and almost got nipped for it. I don't care if we're 3-3 stack, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc...my biggest issue is that we ran base so damn much and just relied on the talent gap that there was almost nothing new to scheme against for most teams in the later half of the year. We need to be more multiple now in order to keep teams off balance, seeing as how our talent gap on defense vs. most of our opponents' offenses is no longer anywhere near as large.

I think it's more of an implementation issue than an alignment. Everyone's base defense is some sort of nickel yet even when we were getting plowed in the run game vs Tulsa and Bama we didn't bring safety's up into the box. How the front 6 breaks down doesn't really matter to me; if you're not willing to bring 7 and 8 into the box occasionally. You could go 5-1-5 and it doesn't really matter if the back 5 are all staying back. I listened to Joel Klatt on Ryen Rusillo's podcast and he was very critical of Fickell being willing to sit back and die a slow death without making them testing the corners.

Yes, yes and yes on all of this. That right there is my lone critical concern from this past year's season. (other than kicking of course) There was very little adjustment defensively and it felt like the coaching staff just assumed our talent would eventually win out.
 
01-12-2022 11:57 AM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 11:45 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 09:47 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Yes, I think that's the way to go...the bigger issue to me is the fact that we ran a 4-4 against Navy the last time we played them and basically ground them to a halt, but thought we could get away with a 3-3 this year and almost got nipped for it. I don't care if we're 3-3 stack, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc...my biggest issue is that we ran base so damn much and just relied on the talent gap that there was almost nothing new to scheme against for most teams in the later half of the year. We need to be more multiple now in order to keep teams off balance, seeing as how our talent gap on defense vs. most of our opponents' offenses is no longer anywhere near as large.

I think it's more of an implementation issue than an alignment. Everyone's base defense is some sort of nickel yet even when we were getting plowed in the run game vs Tulsa and Bama we didn't bring safety's up into the box. How the front 6 breaks down doesn't really matter to me; if you're not willing to bring 7 and 8 into the box occasionally. You could go 5-1-5 and it doesn't really matter if the back 5 are all staying back. I listened to Joel Klatt on Ryen Rusillo's podcast and he was very critical of Fickell being willing to sit back and die a slow death without making them testing the corners.

Eh. I still liked the defensive gameplan. It was 17-6 in the 4th quarter. It was only a "slow death" because the offense didn't take advantage of the opportunities the defense and special teams gave them. I was much happier with Bama having to sustain long drives running than giving them the opportunity to make big plays and run away quickly.

The idea that this game was lost because UC refused to bring safeties into the box is laughable to me. This game was lost because the offense scored 0 touchdowns in 3 redzone trips, had one chunk play of 20+ yards the entire game, failed to do anything off a key interception and failed to do anything off a long kickoff return. Additionally, we missed out on a potentially huge play with the muffed punt.

This Bama offense showed it can boat race teams in a hurry. After the first drive of the game UC did a pretty damn good job getting enough stops to win the game. It doesn't matter when the offense doesn't do a damn thing.

My biggest problem with the gameplan is not taking shots down the field when it became clear we couldn't sustain a short passing game. UC needed chunk plays to win and didn't even attempt them.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2022 12:04 PM by bearcatmark.)
01-12-2022 12:03 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:03 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Eh. I still liked the defensive gameplan. It was 17-6 in the 4th quarter. It was only a "slow death" because the offense didn't take advantage of the opportunities the defense and special teams gave them. I was much happier with Bama having to sustain long drives running than giving them the opportunity to make big plays and run away quickly.

The idea that this game was lost because UC refused to bring safeties into the box is laughable to me. This game was lost because the offense scored 0 touchdowns in 3 redzone trips, had one chunk play of 20+ yards the entire game, failed to do anything off a key interception and failed to do anything off a long kickoff return. Additionally, we missed out on a potentially huge play with the muffed punt.

This Bama offense showed it can boat race teams in a hurry. After the first drive of the game UC did a pretty damn good job getting enough stops to win the game. It doesn't matter when the offense doesn't do a damn thing.

My biggest problem with the gameplan is not taking shots down the field when it became clear we couldn't sustain a short passing game. UC needed chunk plays to win and didn't even attempt them.

I would have liked to have seen a little more aggressiveness on defense but my post was probably a little over critical and I was more reiterating the Joel Klatt analysis that saying it was wrong strategy. I would agree there were more issues with offensive gameplan. Given our blocking issues it would have been hard to go downfield too much but I would have liked to see a couple jet sweeps to Tre. Even if the plays themselves weren't succesful just to give Bama something to think about. Maybe that gives us an extra split second that allows us to go downfield more.

Dennbrock did a great job here and the offense improved every year but I am interested to see what a Gino offense looks like. I'd like to see a little more stretching of the field with things like jet sweeps and pitches.
 
01-12-2022 12:15 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
Watched the highlights of the SMU game the other night. I realize the talent level was different but we should have incorporated a lot of the game plan for that one, such as the jet sweep to Jordan Jones that turned into a pass to Des and some WR, TE and RB screens. There was also a great deep call Des threw over the top a couple times. Des just hurled it on both occasions before the DL had a chance to move. Even with their superior DL I think we could have gotten a couple off just to test their secondary and to keep the Tide honest at the line of scrimmage.
 
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
Biggest game of the...well ever...and we had the least imaginative play calling possible. Made zero sense.
 
01-12-2022 12:33 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:33 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Biggest game of the...well ever...and we had the least imaginative play calling possible. Made zero sense.

I mean, to some extent I understand where they are coming from...get a TO or two, hope you make something happen on offense and it's a close game while limiting the best offense in the country to fewer possessions. Unfortunately, the defensive conservatism bled over to the offense, and it just stuck up the whole building by the end of the day. Really though, if we recover that muffed punt, it's a 4 point game with us getting the ball at the half...I doubt any of us would've complained being in that situation, and that's exactly what they were going for by keeping the game in front of them. I'm more upset about the offense than the defense...I'd rather take the million cuts (allowing Bama to run) than the MG40 (allowing Bryce Young to pass) and hope you can find a medic to patch up the wounds (offense does anything). There is also no telling if have 4 guys at the line would've done anything...our 1's were clearly outmatched down there, so throwing another guy out there who isn't even up to that level may have done nothing but limit the amount of second level tacklers.
 
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Watched the highlights of the SMU game the other night. I realize the talent level was different but we should have incorporated a lot of the game plan for that one, such as the jet sweep to Jordan Jones that turned into a pass to Des and some WR, TE and RB screens. There was also a great deep call Des threw over the top a couple times. Des just hurled it on both occasions before the DL had a chance to move. Even with their superior DL I think we could have gotten a couple off just to test their secondary and to keep the Tide honest at the line of scrimmage.

This one right here is a little too far for me to fly...Des had no time for practically the entire game. We were running quick passing and he was still sacked 8 times...
 
01-12-2022 12:48 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
We were clearly out classed on the line, which is my point. Why not open the playbook up for things we didn’t show on tape all year. At least a couple times? We ran as conservative an offensive playbook as we did all season. Boise never beats Oklahoma back in the day if they lined up to punch it in off guard instead of running what they did.
 
01-12-2022 12:53 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:53 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  We were clearly out classed on the line, which is my point. Why not open the playbook up for things we didn’t show on tape all year. At least a couple times? We ran as conservative an offensive playbook as we did all season. Boise never beats Oklahoma back in the day if they lined up to punch it in off guard instead of running what they did.

I'm with you on the offensive side for sure...I thought you were commenting on the defense playing "not to lose" based on the Joel Klatt comment.

We needed to do as much as we could to get the ball in the hands of Tyler Scott and Tre Tucker in the flats and get the ball outside of the tackle box. We were SOOOOOO compact that entire game offensively, that they could keep 8 guys between the hashes and be fine, which kind of kills Des' ability to run at all.
 
01-12-2022 12:55 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:48 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 12:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Watched the highlights of the SMU game the other night. I realize the talent level was different but we should have incorporated a lot of the game plan for that one, such as the jet sweep to Jordan Jones that turned into a pass to Des and some WR, TE and RB screens. There was also a great deep call Des threw over the top a couple times. Des just hurled it on both occasions before the DL had a chance to move. Even with their superior DL I think we could have gotten a couple off just to test their secondary and to keep the Tide honest at the line of scrimmage.

This one right here is a little too far for me to fly...Des had no time for practically the entire game. We were running quick passing and he was still sacked 8 times...

He was "only" sacked 6 times, but when you dig deeper I think there were plays to be made on early passing downs. Bama wasn't blitzing hard on early downs. They were concentrating on lane integrity and getting their hands up. Then they unleashed the dogs on passing downs. I think there were shot plays to be made on early downs and it was painful we never tried.

We were sacked on
2nd and 5 (the one exception to this rule)
3rd and 10
4th and 14
3rd and 16
4th and 3 (on a stupid, slow developing play action play call that wasn't really on the line)
1st and 10 (last drive when Bama knew we were passing).

So 4/6 sacks were in obvious passing situations (3/6 on third and 10 or longer) and a 5th was on a really bad 4th down call where we tried to fool bama and they weren't fooled. Early downs we needed to attack and didn't.
 
01-12-2022 01:01 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:48 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 12:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Watched the highlights of the SMU game the other night. I realize the talent level was different but we should have incorporated a lot of the game plan for that one, such as the jet sweep to Jordan Jones that turned into a pass to Des and some WR, TE and RB screens. There was also a great deep call Des threw over the top a couple times. Des just hurled it on both occasions before the DL had a chance to move. Even with their superior DL I think we could have gotten a couple off just to test their secondary and to keep the Tide honest at the line of scrimmage.

This one right here is a little too far for me to fly...Des had no time for practically the entire game. We were running quick passing and he was still sacked 8 times...

Des was sacked 6 times. Bama also sacked the Georgia QB 5 times. They still did designed rollouts with Bennett and he also hung in the pocket to get a pass off even though he knew he was going to get crushed. I don't want to re-watch the UC-Bama game, but I'm guessing there were occasions where he had enough time to attempt a 30 yard pass.
 
01-12-2022 01:07 PM
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 01:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 12:48 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 12:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Watched the highlights of the SMU game the other night. I realize the talent level was different but we should have incorporated a lot of the game plan for that one, such as the jet sweep to Jordan Jones that turned into a pass to Des and some WR, TE and RB screens. There was also a great deep call Des threw over the top a couple times. Des just hurled it on both occasions before the DL had a chance to move. Even with their superior DL I think we could have gotten a couple off just to test their secondary and to keep the Tide honest at the line of scrimmage.

This one right here is a little too far for me to fly...Des had no time for practically the entire game. We were running quick passing and he was still sacked 8 times...

He was "only" sacked 6 times, but when you dig deeper I think there were plays to be made on early passing downs. Bama wasn't blitzing hard on early downs. They were concentrating on lane integrity and getting their hands up. Then they unleashed the dogs on passing downs. I think there were shot plays to be made on early downs and it was painful we never tried.

We were sacked on
2nd and 5 (the one exception to this rule)
3rd and 10
4th and 14
3rd and 16
4th and 3 (on a stupid, slow developing play action play call that wasn't really on the line)
1st and 10 (last drive when Bama knew we were passing).

So 4/6 sacks were in obvious passing situations (3/6 on third and 10 or longer) and a 5th was on a really bad 4th down call where we tried to fool bama and they weren't fooled. Early downs we needed to attack and didn't.

They didn't sack us on early downs and in short yardage because we were running one and three step drops for short passes...every time we got sacked, hurried, or disruptively pressured was in those scenarios where we needed 5 or 7 step drops (something that would be required for deep/long developing pass plays). Bama really wasn't blitzing at all, because they didn't need to and they knew it. I told some buddies after the first couple of drives that we had no chance at winning, and they looked at me like I was crazy for calling it that early...once I explained why (Bama was doing base rushes and still disrupting everything and our front 6 were getting annihilated) they understood. It didn't take long to figure out we weren't winning that game without Inspector Gadget on the headset...and Denbrock is the OC equivalent of a Baptist Church in backwater Arkansas.

I don't have access to them anymore, but what do PFF's play disruption numbers look like for us. I'd imagine we were only at like 35-40% of plays getting to the point of action...that's the bigger problem. I just think they were far too disruptive up front and far too compact in the middle for us to be able to hit them deep...we need to stretch the field horizontally, then once the safeties came up to cover the flats and gaps, we start going deep (or at least moderate, which we weren't even doing for the most part).

Essentially, you're arguing that because we weren't sacked when we ran quick drops on passes, we could have taken long drops and not gotten sacked. My argument is that they were disrupting our passes on any drop, so if we did run long drops, we were going to get lit up (like we did when we ran them...as stated in your post). We did take a few deep shots, but Des was off. When you're in that situation, you stretch horizontal to stretch vertical...we didn't take step one...we ran slants and ins straight into the most compact box we've played against all year and played right into their hands.
 
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Cataclysmo Online
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RE: 2022 Football Depth Chart
(01-12-2022 12:47 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-12-2022 12:33 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Biggest game of the...well ever...and we had the least imaginative play calling possible. Made zero sense.

I mean, to some extent I understand where they are coming from...get a TO or two, hope you make something happen on offense and it's a close game while limiting the best offense in the country to fewer possessions. Unfortunately, the defensive conservatism bled over to the offense, and it just stuck up the whole building by the end of the day. Really though, if we recover that muffed punt, it's a 4 point game with us getting the ball at the half...I doubt any of us would've complained being in that situation, and that's exactly what they were going for by keeping the game in front of them. I'm more upset about the offense than the defense...I'd rather take the million cuts (allowing Bama to run) than the MG40 (allowing Bryce Young to pass) and hope you can find a medic to patch up the wounds (offense does anything). There is also no telling if have 4 guys at the line would've done anything...our 1's were clearly outmatched down there, so throwing another guy out there who isn't even up to that level may have done nothing but limit the amount of second level tacklers.

Bryce Young threw a bad pick at the 50 with about 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. He had the yips bad at that point in the game.

On offense, we proceeded to have a penalty called for illegal formation and then couldn't dig out of the hole. Story of the entire day.
 
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