(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

Absolutely, those % are scary and Lester's is that low AFTER shooting 50% against Cincy! We really need him to be a threat from the arc to free up space for Duren and Malco. Although tbh I don't feel great when Malco tries to go one on one against anybody. Penny needs to place Malco in the Cal invented "Joey Dorsey" zone which is this: if you can't dunk it don't shoot it.

Didn't watch the game last night and glad now i did not. This team seems to play to the level of the competition. They can look like a Top 20 team and they can look like a church league team the next game. This has been pretty much the story for the last several years.

So, either accept this is who we are and who we are going to be until changes or made or just turn it off and read about it the next day not expecting anything different.

(01-13-2022 10:45 AM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

Absolutely, those % are scary and Lester's is that low AFTER shooting 50% against Cincy! We really need him to be a threat from the arc to free up space for Duren and Malco. Although tbh I don't feel great when Malco tries to go one on one against anybody. Penny needs to place Malco in the Cal invented "Joey Dorsey" zone which is this: if you can't dunk it don't shoot it.

I agree completely. Malcolm is a black hole with the ball and it usually results in a turnover.

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

We have a lot of frustrating players on this team. Nolley and LQ rank up near the top. If this team misses the tournament, a good bit of the blame should fall on them. Supposedly a couple of our best shooters and both are barely over 30% from 3. And it’s not like they don’t get open looks.

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Sorry but while the team was capable of winning anyway it is more than just depth when you are missing starters and major rotation players

While we beat Tulane with more players, you are correct that maybe not last night

(01-13-2022 09:38 AM)450bench Wrote:  Complaints when we have the entire team and excuses when we have guys out.

Can’t have it both ways. What’s the common denominator?

Bad coaching.

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

(01-13-2022 01:10 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

Exactly. No off ball movement, too much camping out, and hero ball. They dish the ball when they are in trouble but no one is moving so they are passing to a teammate who is usually well defended. Which leads to more hero ball and bad shot selection. And lots of sticky hands.

Rinse, repeat.

I love Harris and liked that at times he took the game on his shoulders both Sunday and last night but it also makes me fearful that he has to do that in the first place - and it feels like him trying to dig the team out only encourages others to play hero ball.

(01-13-2022 11:01 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:37 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 09:18 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Those making the “we were short handed” excuse need to take a closer look at one of the main reasons why we lost the game. UCF clogged the paint and we don’t have shooters. Apart from Jayden, of the players that were out who can shoot from the outside?

I’m not saying the extra depth/energy wouldn’t have helped, but I don’t think it would have been a guaranteed W either.

Tyler Harris. Nolley has been a major disappointment. He was over 38% last year but that appears to be the anomaly year. He was 31% as a freshman at VT and is 31% this year. And the same with Lester. He was 40% last year and is 31% this year just like he was 31% as a freshman. He and Nolley were 1-10 last night... Harris was 5-6 and Bates was 2-6.

They have both regressed, I think it's mental. They must not be happy with their roles or something.

I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

We have a lot of frustrating players on this team. Nolley and LQ rank up near the top. If this team misses the tournament, a good bit of the blame should fall on them. Supposedly a couple of our best shooters and both are barely over 30% from 3. And it’s not like they don’t get open looks.

The blame on LQ and Nolley is mostly for two reasons. One, they are absolutely useless at getting their own shot. When they try it is painful to watch. There literally isn't an average D1 defender that either of them can beat off of the dribble. Two, we have no point guard to get them the ball when Williams isn't playing.

LQ and Nolley are GREAT players if they have someone to space the floor and get them the ball. Nolley is CDR accurate from inside 18FT. LQ would be dynamite if he was off of the ball and all he had to do was find open spots, with a point guard to get him the ball.

(01-13-2022 01:10 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 10:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  I tend to give Lester more slack. He typically plays really hard defense so I can see that impacting his shooting, tired legs. Nolley gets the ball and the only thing on his mind is getting to shoot. He never looks to make a play for anyone but himself.

Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

I disagree. Many of our key players such as LQ, Bates and Nolley can't get their own shot if their life depended on it. Tyler can penetrate but will get his shot blocked and isn't a distributor. It's not that the guys are thinking shoot first. It is that they just aren't physically able to create opportunities for themselves or others.

Right now, we have 2 guys that can get their own shot. Minott, Duren and to a lesser extent, either Timberlake, Tyler or Williams. The last 3 just need to get the ball in a good spot. Minott is really the only player on our roster that doesn't need any help at all.

It isn't that the players are selfish, it is that they are on the perimeter, are being guarded to a standstill, and can't penetrate or pass it to another player who has beaten his man.

(01-13-2022 01:15 PM)TGTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 01:10 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

Exactly. No off ball movement, too much camping out, and hero ball. They dish the ball when they are in trouble but no one is moving so they are passing to a teammate who is usually well defended. Which leads to more hero ball and bad shot selection. And lots of sticky hands.

Rinse, repeat.

I love Harris and liked that at times he took the game on his shoulders both Sunday and last night but it also makes me fearful that he has to do that in the first place - and it feels like him trying to dig the team out only encourages others to play hero ball.

I thought that the off the ball movement was very good last night, but the players with the ball have no way of getting into scoring position on their own, or getting to others in scoring position.

(01-13-2022 01:45 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 01:10 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:40 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Shooters like LQ & Nolley need to be set to hit their 3s at a decent rate. Our lack of inside-out offense didn't provide for that last night. UCF played good D & the only way to be effective outside against that D is good inside out offense - either with penetration or post involvement.

We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

I disagree. Many of our key players such as LQ, Bates and Nolley can't get their own shot if their life depended on it. Tyler can penetrate but will get his shot blocked and isn't a distributor. It's not that the guys are thinking shoot first. It is that they just aren't physically able to create opportunities for themselves or others.

Right now, we have 2 guys that can get their own shot. Minott, Duren and to a lesser extent, either Timberlake, Tyler or Williams. The last 3 just need to get the ball in a good spot. Minott is really the only player on our roster that doesn't need any help at all.

It isn't that the players are selfish, it is that they are on the perimeter, are being guarded to a standstill, and can't penetrate or pass it to another player who has beaten his man.

A shoot first mentality and not being able to create their own shot are not mutually exclusive to one another. That combo is exactly what creates "sticky hands" and bad offense.

They are shoot first but cannot create their shots so they dribble until they are stonewalled AND THEN they pass only because they cannot get their shot off. They do not drive looking to pass or receive a pass looking to make an extra swing pass. They catch look to shoot and then pass. Watch next game how often a player catches and immediately dribbles vs. how rarely a player catches and looks to swing or move the ball without a dribble. I bet it is over 90% of the time one of our guys catches and dribbles.

(01-12-2022 09:17 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  This game certainly does kill us. We need to build confidence to pull off what is extremely unlikely.. an at large bid. Now we can only lose 2 more regular season games. 10 total losses I think would leave us out. So we have to win every game we are supposed to, and the following:

@Tulsa
@SMU
@Houston
Houston
@Cincy.... we have to go 3-2 in those 5 and win every other game. Tall order at this point

Having a tight path and no path are different. We are 2nd team out today. First team out? UCF

2 bid league. We have too many top 100 net teams to only get one team in. Need to be the clear number 2 and we will have a spot

(01-13-2022 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 01:45 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 01:10 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-13-2022 11:47 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  We missed enough wide open 3s, layups, dunks and FTs that we could have won that game by 10 if we would have shot worth a flip. UCF isn’t a great matchup for us, but if we would have done the little things right last night it would have been a comfortable win.

FWIW, I don’t disagree with you. Our inside/out passing is almost non-existent. We’d likely get more open looks if our passing improved. Harris would hit those shots; the others, who knows?

Every player on our team has a shoot first mentality. Because of this they all have very sticky hands. They get the ball and want to dribble to try and get their shot, when they are stopped then they pass the ball but it is not within the flow of an offensive set, it is to a stagnant player with a defender right in front of him.

I disagree. Many of our key players such as LQ, Bates and Nolley can't get their own shot if their life depended on it. Tyler can penetrate but will get his shot blocked and isn't a distributor. It's not that the guys are thinking shoot first. It is that they just aren't physically able to create opportunities for themselves or others.

Right now, we have 2 guys that can get their own shot. Minott, Duren and to a lesser extent, either Timberlake, Tyler or Williams. The last 3 just need to get the ball in a good spot. Minott is really the only player on our roster that doesn't need any help at all.

It isn't that the players are selfish, it is that they are on the perimeter, are being guarded to a standstill, and can't penetrate or pass it to another player who has beaten his man.

A shoot first mentality and not being able to create their own shot are not mutually exclusive to one another. That combo is exactly what creates "sticky hands" and bad offense.

They are shoot first but cannot create their shots so they dribble until they are stonewalled AND THEN they pass only because they cannot get their shot off. They do not drive looking to pass or receive a pass looking to make an extra swing pass. They catch look to shoot and then pass. Watch next game how often a player catches and immediately dribbles vs. how rarely a player catches and looks to swing or move the ball without a dribble. I bet it is over 90% of the time one of our guys catches and dribbles.

Nolley and LQ ALWAYS have a player in their face because the defender knows that they can't get by him. Tyler always has a player in his face because he can shoot from anywhere. The players have to dribble on the perimeter. They are all being closely guarded, even the ones without the ball. They can't square up and have no space to pass it to an open player, because the defense overplays everyone on the perimeter.

The only ones that aren't closely guarded on the perimeter are Duren, Dandridge, ET and Williams. It isn't a coincidence that we create our best offense from Williams and Duren and even Dandridge make nice passes to put others in scoring position.

IF ET could shoot, our defense would be night and day. They would have to defend him outside, and he would make them pay from outside or would be able to blow by them.

If the team can improve defensively it will take a lot of pressure off the offense, and players will not feel stressed to force a shot.

Right now we are miles away from where we were defensively last March. I saw a stretch last night after they got down by 19 that showed some potential to really improve in that area, but its still very shaky overall at this point.

Since Dandridge played in his first game here I have been saying the same thing... He should run 10 laps for every single dribble. The fact that he is still doing it this far into his career tells me it isnt Dandridge, it is Penny. Penny is telling Dandridge that he is a great dribbler and should always go for the dribble drive. There is no other reason he is still doing it.

At least we don’t have to play at ucf again

I hate a fan base that disrespects the national anthem the way they do

I guess they think night is the same as Knight

But for most of them English is a second language