(01-11-2022 04:08 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  And the only way to remedy that is for an expanded CFP.
As for SEC dominance, that is largely due to Bama and Saban building a historic dynasty.
Take him out of the equation (I know you can't, but just imagine) and the SEC is really not much different than the other conferences.
Some good, some bad, with usually 1 really good team.

...apologists coming in 3, 2, 1...

1925, 1926, 1930 largely Due to Wallace Wade
1934, 1941 largely due to Frank Thomas
1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, largely due to Paul Brysnt
1992 largely due to Gene Stallings
2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2020 largely due to Nick Saban

Or maybe it's largely due to Bama being Bama and the SEC being better since forever

Difference now is that the Big 10, Pac 10 don't hide in the Rose Bowl yearly

The northeast sportswriters can't get us to believe to he Notre Dame lie anymore.

And the rest are still just the rest sneaking in every so often

Nah, the SEC is the best, by a far margin. It's not really debatable.

Dopes wanted a playoff and now have the answer.

Split polls never bothered me, made the sport unique

The more it becomes junior league NFL the more it loses what made it special.

The only constant left is SEC dominance

How one feels about it is up to them

(01-11-2022 10:17 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 08:43 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Buck Fama.

Seriously. Hopefully the world lasts 200 billion more years and they never win another championship. They’ve won plenty.

(01-11-2022 07:34 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:17 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 08:43 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Buck Fama.

Seriously. Hopefully the world lasts 200 billion more years and they never win another championship. They’ve won plenty.

I don't think anyone can argue with this either

(01-11-2022 12:09 AM)Browning Hall Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 08:47 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Bama and the over for $50 Alex

Ouch

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

(01-11-2022 04:42 PM)Claw Wrote:  The current elites are about to start paying their players. Any dreams you have of competing with them are dying - fast.

Players are already getting paid.
Ask Deion at mighty Jax State.

(01-11-2022 06:17 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

Cinci got in because they beat the #5 team...There is no other reason.

Notre Dame held Cinci in place. That was always the magic formula. Beat a team that would be in if you didn't beat them and stay undefeated. I know some said it would never happen but I also think many have said this was the only way it would happen.

Well, that's part of the miracle I referenced - they got the game in the right year and actually won it.
But if you think that was all it took, you weren't paying attention.
Many other P5's had to lose - Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Wake Forest.
The Fickell factor impacted where they started in the preseason polls.
Compare their preseason #8 (coming off an undefeated regular season, and bowl loss) to UCF's preseason #21 (coming off an undefeated season including a bowl win).
I know, I know - there were other factors.
That's a standard this is only applied in justification though.

(01-11-2022 04:08 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  And the only way to remedy that is for an expanded CFP.
As for SEC dominance, that is largely due to Bama and Saban building a historic dynasty.
Take him out of the equation (I know you can't, but just imagine) and the SEC is really not much different than the other conferences.
Some good, some bad, with usually 1 really good team.

...apologists coming in 3, 2, 1...

I got a couple of them.
It's a treble hook - got room for one more...

(01-11-2022 09:50 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

I did not suggest leaving them out, I said just the opposite of that. Slow down and READ before you post.

Yahoo's (way too early) next seasons ranking-----Cincinnati 23--Houston 25

(01-11-2022 10:04 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 06:17 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

Cinci got in because they beat the #5 team...There is no other reason.

Notre Dame held Cinci in place. That was always the magic formula. Beat a team that would be in if you didn't beat them and stay undefeated. I know some said it would never happen but I also think many have said this was the only way it would happen.

Well, that's part of the miracle I referenced - they got the game in the right year and actually won it.
But if you think that was all it took, you weren't paying attention.
Many other P5's had to lose - Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Wake Forest.
The Fickell factor impacted where they started in the preseason polls.
Compare their preseason #8 (coming off an undefeated regular season, and bowl loss) to UCF's preseason #21 (coming off an undefeated season including a bowl win).
I know, I know - there were other factors.
That's a standard this is only applied in justification though.

I say they get in regardless of where they started...

I don't think it had anything to do with a love affair with Fickel...There would have been no way for them to put Notre Dame ahead of Cinci and not get crucified...

But you are right...Any other 1 loss P5 champions and they are left out. Notre Dame loses another game and they are real shaky.

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

I would rather find a way to actually level the playing field so those schools can truly compete at the highest level. Just expanding the playoff won't do that.

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how you feel politically, and rightfully so. Access. That is all that is required for people to find the system fair. Access. That's all I'm asking for. The rest is on me.

(01-12-2022 12:26 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

I would rather find a way to actually level the playing field so those schools can truly compete at the highest level. Just expanding the playoff won't do that.

That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how you feel politically, and rightfully so. Access. That is all that is required for people to find the system fair. Access. That's all I'm asking for. The rest is on me.

Well I disagree with that, its not the opposite of how I feel politically. I despise monopolies and squashing the helpless, I despise tyranny from on high (we have seen ton of that during this pandemic) and when our Lord and Savior comes He will put an end to that forever.

As I have said multiple times, we do not disagree that those undefeated teams should get their chance, we fully agree they should.

I just disagree with a 12-16 team format and think its does more bad than good. I would rather those undefeated teams get an automatic big into the 4. At most I would not want it to go above 6 (top 2 seeds getting a bye) but I think 4 works best.

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:05 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:31 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:27 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  The problem is the ratings. The 12 team playoff will never come if they know they don't have to change anything and still get everybody to watch.

When they started this I was screaming why not a 12-16 team playoff?

Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake.

No system is perfect but I think the 4 team format is as close as we can get.

Dude? Do you even fan?

Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

It wasn’t not long ago. It took 72 yrs for basketball to get from 8 to 68 teams, 42 yrs to get from 25 to 68. It took baseball 52 yrs to get from 8 to 64, 24 yrs to get from 32 to 64. Both became much more inclusive, but let’s face it - the bottom half (or more) don’t have a chance in hell of winning the whole thing.

It took football 145 years to even have a playoff, and they’re still figuring it out. The playoffs will grow in time, but due to the nature of the sport, 16 teams is likely the cap. That would be perfect. Bottom half may or may not have a chance, but they still get to try.

Over the past 50 years, I found only two undefeated teams that probably wouldn’t have made a 16 team play playoff. ‘75 Arkansas St and ‘99 Marshall.

(01-11-2022 10:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 09:50 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I've always felt that and and still do. I would rather see undefeated teams get automatic bids into the 4 than expanding to 12 or 16.

But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

I did not suggest leaving them out, I said just the opposite of that. Slow down and READ before you post.

lol at YOU telling someone to slow down

I have read every post. Here is what you said:

"Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake."

So you say the teams closest get a fair shake. Yet now you are saying undefeated teams should be included. So how does that work, exactly - where we get both the subjective "best 4 teams" and we also allow access to every undefeated team in a 4-team format? Use 2017 as an example...

(01-12-2022 01:48 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:05 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:31 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  When they started this I was screaming why not a 12-16 team playoff?

Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake.

No system is perfect but I think the 4 team format is as close as we can get.

Dude? Do you even fan?

Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

It wasn’t not long ago. It took 72 yrs for basketball to get from 8 to 68 teams, 42 yrs to get from 25 to 68. It took baseball 52 yrs to get from 8 to 64, 24 yrs to get from 32 to 64. Both became much more inclusive, but let’s face it - the bottom half (or more) don’t have a chance in hell of winning the whole thing.

It took football 145 years to even have a playoff, and they’re still figuring it out. The playoffs will grow in time, but due to the nature of the sport, 16 teams is likely the cap. That would be perfect. Bottom half may or may not have a chance, but they still get to try.

Over the past 50 years, I found only two undefeated teams that probably wouldn’t have made a 16 team play playoff. ‘75 Arkansas St and ‘99 Marshall.

You lost me.
For one, regardless of how long it took them to expand (irrelevant), other sports ALWAYS had a format in which - if you win every single game you play, you are the champ.
Secondly, I'm the guy defending expansion. I'd love to see the 16-team playoff. We're saying the same thing.

(01-12-2022 05:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 01:48 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:42 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 11:05 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Dude? Do you even fan?

Sure, that's why I prefer the 4 team format.

We could make it a 30 team format, the tigers will never win a NC under the current conf alignments. We won't even sniff one. The talent disparity is laughable. How did Cincy and Michigan do? They got annihilated and had no chance.

In basketball 2-3 recruits can put you in elite class, but not in football. Not even close.

Its a rigged system, and the playoff format is not going to change that.

You still need to be able to tell players, if you win all your games, you will be national champs.
It's true in every other sport.
Anything else is - this gets overused, but it's true - UNAMERICAN.

It wasn’t not long ago. It took 72 yrs for basketball to get from 8 to 68 teams, 42 yrs to get from 25 to 68. It took baseball 52 yrs to get from 8 to 64, 24 yrs to get from 32 to 64. Both became much more inclusive, but let’s face it - the bottom half (or more) don’t have a chance in hell of winning the whole thing.

It took football 145 years to even have a playoff, and they’re still figuring it out. The playoffs will grow in time, but due to the nature of the sport, 16 teams is likely the cap. That would be perfect. Bottom half may or may not have a chance, but they still get to try.

Over the past 50 years, I found only two undefeated teams that probably wouldn’t have made a 16 team play playoff. ‘75 Arkansas St and ‘99 Marshall.

You lost me.
For one, regardless of how long it took them to expand (irrelevant), other sports ALWAYS had a format in which - if you win every single game you play, you are the champ.
Secondly, I'm the guy defending expansion. I'd love to see the 16-team playoff. We're saying the same thing.

I know. I was just adding my gibberish. Were you talking about winning every single game of the season, or the tournament? Maybe you covered that in the thread, but I rarely read entire threads. Someone mentioned an undefeated season, so I went off that.

(01-12-2022 05:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 09:50 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:05 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  But that's the problem.
Undefeated G5's don't get access.
It took a miracle and a media push (due to ESPN's love affair with Fickell) for Cincy to get in as the #4 seed.
But that doesn't forgive the snubs to UCF (x2), Cincy last year, Coastal Carolina, etc.

I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

I did not suggest leaving them out, I said just the opposite of that. Slow down and READ before you post.

lol at YOU telling someone to slow down

I have read every post. Here is what you said:

"Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake."

So you say the teams closest get a fair shake. Yet now you are saying undefeated teams should be included. So how does that work, exactly - where we get both the subjective "best 4 teams" and we also allow access to every undefeated team in a 4-team format? Use 2017 as an example...

Oh please. You said "that is still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out" and I clearly never said they should be left out.

Sorry, but you will have to find someone else to argue this with from here forward.

You are more than welcome to have a different view than mine. You can view it however you wish. I'm fine with that.

(01-12-2022 05:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 05:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 09:50 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 04:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I would like to have had everyone one of them in the 4, but we all know they would have been blown off the field.

Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

I did not suggest leaving them out, I said just the opposite of that. Slow down and READ before you post.

lol at YOU telling someone to slow down

I have read every post. Here is what you said:

"Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake."

So you say the teams closest get a fair shake. Yet now you are saying undefeated teams should be included. So how does that work, exactly - where we get both the subjective "best 4 teams" and we also allow access to every undefeated team in a 4-team format? Use 2017 as an example...

Oh please. You said "that is still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out" and I clearly never said they should be left out.

Sorry, but you will have to find someone else to argue this with from here forward.

You are more than welcome to have a different view than mine. You can view it however you wish. I'm fine with that.

thank you
and good avoidance when questioned on facts

(01-12-2022 06:14 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 05:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 05:24 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 10:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 09:50 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Which is different from Oklahoma, Michigan, Notre Dame how?
With Saban in football, EVERYONE is always going to be underdogs.
Still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out of the "national championship" race.

I did not suggest leaving them out, I said just the opposite of that. Slow down and READ before you post.

lol at YOU telling someone to slow down

I have read every post. Here is what you said:

"Now after watching it play out for 5+ years I prefer the 4 team playoff. The best team in the nation usually wins and the teams closest to them get a fair shake."

So you say the teams closest get a fair shake. Yet now you are saying undefeated teams should be included. So how does that work, exactly - where we get both the subjective "best 4 teams" and we also allow access to every undefeated team in a 4-team format? Use 2017 as an example...

Oh please. You said "that is still not a reason to leave undefeated teams out" and I clearly never said they should be left out.

Sorry, but you will have to find someone else to argue this with from here forward.

You are more than welcome to have a different view than mine. You can view it however you wish. I'm fine with that.

thank you
and good avoidance when questioned on facts

There were no "facts" to avoid. We both gave opinions and we disagree.

Big deal.