Haven't seen much on Horizon League expansion should the expected UIC to MVC happen. Anybody got anything?

I wonder if Grand Valley State would do a Horizon/OVC split. Park Olympic sports in the Horizon League for easier conference travel and play football in the OVC.

There’s been no sources reporting anything yet to my knowledge.

But I would be stunned if Bellarmine isn’t target #1. I think this is one of the easier realignment developments to predict.

(01-10-2022 04:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There’s been no sources reporting anything yet to my knowledge.

But I would be stunned if Bellarmine isn’t target #1. I think this is one of the easier realignment developments to predict.

Which would put the ASUN back at 10 with APSU coming in.

Then does APSU, EKU, UCA start to second guess the move?

That would be three gone from the league.

(01-10-2022 05:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 04:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There’s been no sources reporting anything yet to my knowledge.

But I would be stunned if Bellarmine isn’t target #1. I think this is one of the easier realignment developments to predict.

Which would put the ASUN back at 10 with APSU coming in.

Then does APSU, EKU, UCA start to second guess the move?

That would be three gone from the league.

I would be stunned if they aren't already second-guessing the move. But with Murray gone, the A-Sun can now focus on finishing off OVC football without going against Gumbart's pledge not to put any other conference out of compliance.

However, it should be apparent to all that the whole musical chairs scenario caused by the OVC and Southland football schools moving to the A-Sun and WAC has resulted in a bunch of near-lateral moves for very little gain. The dream of elevating either conference to FBS was always just that -- a dream.

(01-10-2022 05:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 05:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 04:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There’s been no sources reporting anything yet to my knowledge.

But I would be stunned if Bellarmine isn’t target #1. I think this is one of the easier realignment developments to predict.

Which would put the ASUN back at 10 with APSU coming in.

Then does APSU, EKU, UCA start to second guess the move?

That would be three gone from the league.

I would be stunned if they aren't already second-guessing the move. But with Murray gone, the A-Sun can now focus on finishing off OVC football without going against Gumbart's pledge not to put any other conference out of compliance.

However, it should be apparent to all that the whole musical chairs scenario caused by the OVC and Southland football schools moving to the A-Sun and WAC has resulted in a bunch of near-lateral moves for very little gain. The dream of elevating either conference to FBS was always just that -- a dream.

Yup - once NMSU, SHSU, Liberty, and JSU bailed to the C-USA (and likely one or more to follow), both conferences FBS dreams were crushed into nothingness.

UCA never made sense to move

Bellarmine have always identify themselves as a southern school. Their goal is to get into SoCon.

It's true Bellarmine considers themselves a southern school, but without taking the FCS plunge, there isn't going to be a great conference fit for them. I also think the option to greatly reduce travel and missed class time would also make the Horizon very attractive to Bellarmine. The history with NKU is also difficult to ignore.

I would do Bellarmine if I were the Horizon

The Horizon may add one--- but-- they could just stay at eleven.

IMO- Bellarmine is NOT a "lock" for the HL.

Bellarmine may think they're southern but they spent their D-II years in a midwestern conference the GLVC. Bellarmine better not pass up an HL invite if it comes.

(01-10-2022 10:55 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Bellarmine may think they're southern but they spent their D-II years in a midwestern conference the GLVC. Bellarmine better not pass up an HL invite if it comes.

"We want to be the Catholic University of the South" was a catchy line when a southern conference opened the door to D1 for them.

When they jump to the Horizon, they'll have a different catchphrase.

Grand Valley State could be a good addition. Grand Rapids is the second-largest metro area in Michigan, well away from Detroit, so Grand Valley State is probably not a threat to Detroit Mercy or Oakland.

(01-10-2022 08:56 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  It's true Bellarmine considers themselves a southern school, but without taking the FCS plunge, there isn't going to be a great conference fit for them. I also think the option to greatly reduce travel and missed class time would also make the Horizon very attractive to Bellarmine. The history with NKU is also difficult to ignore.

Since when does academics matter?

(01-10-2022 05:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 05:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 05:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-10-2022 04:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There’s been no sources reporting anything yet to my knowledge.

But I would be stunned if Bellarmine isn’t target #1. I think this is one of the easier realignment developments to predict.

Which would put the ASUN back at 10 with APSU coming in.

Then does APSU, EKU, UCA start to second guess the move?

That would be three gone from the league.

I would be stunned if they aren't already second-guessing the move. But with Murray gone, the A-Sun can now focus on finishing off OVC football without going against Gumbart's pledge not to put any other conference out of compliance.

However, it should be apparent to all that the whole musical chairs scenario caused by the OVC and Southland football schools moving to the A-Sun and WAC has resulted in a bunch of near-lateral moves for very little gain. The dream of elevating either conference to FBS was always just that -- a dream.

Yup - once NMSU, SHSU, Liberty, and JSU bailed to the C-USA (and likely one or more to follow), both conferences FBS dreams were crushed into nothingness.

UCA never made sense to move

Agree on the WAC, but disagree on the A-Sun. The A-Sun already knew that Liberty wanted to leave, so I doubt that Liberty really figured into their long range plans at all. Jax State was probably a shock, but we will see if A-Sun can recover.

With the Horizon losing its Chicago presence. How desirable does this league remain to Milwaukee and Green Bay? Now that St. Thomas is in the Twin Cities, would the Wisconsin schools consider a Summit invite at this point, if offered? Travel to the Dakota schools seems to be about 7-8 hours for them and the don't have to drive through Chicago or around that big lake to get there? I'm not proposing this happens, just asking if there would be any mutual interest. Are the Wisconsin schools gung-ho for the Horizon League?

(01-11-2022 12:47 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  With the Horizon losing its Chicago presence. How desirable does this league remain to Milwaukee and Green Bay? Now that St. Thomas is in the Twin Cities, would the Wisconsin schools consider a Summit invite at this point, if offered? Travel to the Dakota schools seems to be about 7-8 hours for them and the don't have to drive through Chicago or around that big lake to get there? I'm not proposing this happens, just asking if there would be any mutual interest. Are the Wisconsin schools gung-ho for the Horizon League?

Seems likelier that Western Illinois looks to the Horizon for the Midwest footprint that the OVC would have offered without any of the football baggage, if you believe they'd prefer to keep football in the MVFC. The Horizon's worst-case scenario should be one of the non-football OVC teams if they had to, don't think they'll have to go the route of D-2 call-ups.

Summit should be looking very hard at all of Mankato/St Cloud/Duluth, though, and if either of Green Bay or Milwaukee are interested (I doubt it), then by all means.

One of the interesting recent moves IMO was Robert Morris, an "Eastern" school moving to the Horizon League. Pittsburgh's kind of on the cusp of the East and Midwest (the Pirates are in the NL Central and the Steelers are in the AFC North) but the Horizon is IMO a clear upgrade over the Northeast Conference. St. Francis is a nearby school to Robert Morris and could be a travel partner and adding another "Eastern" school could distinguish the Horizon League over other Midwestern conferences although the last time St. Francis made the NCAA Men's Tournament was 1991. They could also try for the MAAC Buffalo area schools, Niagara and Canisius. They're probably closer to Cleveland State and Youngstown State than many of the Metro Atlantic schools. I'd probably just add nobody and stick with an 11 team conference. Why add a school that was Division 2 a few years ago?

(01-11-2022 12:47 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  With the Horizon losing its Chicago presence. How desirable does this league remain to Milwaukee and Green Bay? Now that St. Thomas is in the Twin Cities, would the Wisconsin schools consider a Summit invite at this point, if offered? Travel to the Dakota schools seems to be about 7-8 hours for them and the don't have to drive through Chicago or around that big lake to get there? I'm not proposing this happens, just asking if there would be any mutual interest. Are the Wisconsin schools gung-ho for the Horizon League?

There would be no interest from UWM/UWGB in the Summit. They are way more culturally/institutionally similar to the Horizon with that league being all urban/suburban great lakes region schools.

Also, it's a lot easier to fly cheaper to Horizon locations from MKE/GB.

Furthermore, the great lakes region is where they recruit students. They don't pull students from the Dakotas/Omaha/KC.

And the Horizon's closer to UWM anyway -- the entire Horizon is a 4.5-8.5 hour drive from Milwaukee.

(01-11-2022 12:57 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-11-2022 12:47 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  With the Horizon losing its Chicago presence. How desirable does this league remain to Milwaukee and Green Bay? Now that St. Thomas is in the Twin Cities, would the Wisconsin schools consider a Summit invite at this point, if offered? Travel to the Dakota schools seems to be about 7-8 hours for them and the don't have to drive through Chicago or around that big lake to get there? I'm not proposing this happens, just asking if there would be any mutual interest. Are the Wisconsin schools gung-ho for the Horizon League?

Seems likelier that Western Illinois looks to the Horizon for the Midwest footprint that the OVC would have offered without any of the football baggage, if you believe they'd prefer to keep football in the MVFC. The Horizon's worst-case scenario should be one of the non-football OVC teams if they had to, don't think they'll have to go the route of D-2 call-ups.

Summit should be looking very hard at all of Mankato/St Cloud/Duluth, though, and if either of Green Bay or Milwaukee are interested (I doubt it), then by all means.

The Horizon won't be interested in WIU. WIU is a perennial 300+ school located in a very, very remote small town who's culturally a football school. The Horizon is all urban/suburban schools - they'll target a Bellarmine or Southern Indiana, who are culturally basketball schools in larger (Louisville) or mid-sized (Evansville) cities.

If the Horizon dips into IL, they'll target SIUE, who's near St Louis and is way healthier institutionally.