(01-02-2022 05:24 PM)DWING Wrote:  It was wrong (not allowed) before. Now it is in the open.

I'm not saying that the players who bring in Millions of revenue shouldn't be compensated in ways, which they were with tuition/room/board/facilities beyond belief (at least at some P5s)/Cost of Living Allowance/etc. (I'm sure I'm missing some); however, it will change college athletics. For the worst in my opinion, which I'm sure some here will disagree with and let me know.

What do you see getting worst?

(01-02-2022 06:36 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 05:24 PM)DWING Wrote:  It was wrong (not allowed) before. Now it is in the open.

I'm not saying that the players who bring in Millions of revenue shouldn't be compensated in ways, which they were with tuition/room/board/facilities beyond belief (at least at some P5s)/Cost of Living Allowance/etc. (I'm sure I'm missing some); however, it will change college athletics. For the worst in my opinion, which I'm sure some here will disagree with and let me know.

What do you see getting worst?

Players will go where the $ is.
Schools without the ability to pay top dollar via proxies (JMU/ODU/etc.) will fall further behind.

This along with the Xfer portal, will lead to kids going to school A for $, not getting playing time they believe they are deserving of at school A, then skipping town looking for the next bag a $ and playing time at school B.

Its already happening way to much for my interests. I'll go yell at some clouds now.

(01-02-2022 06:55 PM)DWING Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 06:36 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 05:24 PM)DWING Wrote:  It was wrong (not allowed) before. Now it is in the open.

I'm not saying that the players who bring in Millions of revenue shouldn't be compensated in ways, which they were with tuition/room/board/facilities beyond belief (at least at some P5s)/Cost of Living Allowance/etc. (I'm sure I'm missing some); however, it will change college athletics. For the worst in my opinion, which I'm sure some here will disagree with and let me know.

What do you see getting worst?

Players will go where the $ is.
Schools without the ability to pay top dollar via proxies (JMU/ODU/etc.) will fall further behind.

This along with the Xfer portal, will lead to kids going to school A for $, not getting playing time they believe they are deserving of at school A, then skipping town looking for the next bag a $ and playing time at school B.

Its already happening way to much for my interests. I'll go yell at some clouds now.

Hmmm. The first two sentences were already in place WAY before NIL came about so that's irrelevant IMHO. Again, NIL may speed up what is already in motion, but it isn't the cause and it was going to happen with or without NIL, so to say college athletics are doomed just because of NIL seems odd to me.

And I still don't see how college athletics are getting worse by your statements. If anything I'd say you described how they could get better (from a level of talent on the field) and contradicted yourself regarding the talent discrepancy amongst teams. If an athlete is standing on the sideline at school A and transfers and gets playing time at school B, then by proxy team B is a better (minimizing the talent discrepancy between the teams and increasing the level of talent on the field).

(01-02-2022 07:18 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 06:55 PM)DWING Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 06:36 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 05:24 PM)DWING Wrote:  It was wrong (not allowed) before. Now it is in the open.

I'm not saying that the players who bring in Millions of revenue shouldn't be compensated in ways, which they were with tuition/room/board/facilities beyond belief (at least at some P5s)/Cost of Living Allowance/etc. (I'm sure I'm missing some); however, it will change college athletics. For the worst in my opinion, which I'm sure some here will disagree with and let me know.

What do you see getting worst?

Players will go where the $ is.
Schools without the ability to pay top dollar via proxies (JMU/ODU/etc.) will fall further behind.

This along with the Xfer portal, will lead to kids going to school A for $, not getting playing time they believe they are deserving of at school A, then skipping town looking for the next bag a $ and playing time at school B.

Its already happening way to much for my interests. I'll go yell at some clouds now.

Hmmm. The first two sentences were already in place WAY before NIL came about so that's irrelevant IMHO. Again, NIL may speed up what is already in motion, but it isn't the cause and it was going to happen with or without NIL, so to say college athletics are doomed just because of NIL seems odd to me.

And I still don't see how college athletics are getting worse by your statements. If anything I'd say you described how they could get better (from a level of talent on the field) and contradicted yourself regarding the talent discrepancy amongst teams. If an athlete is standing on the sideline at school A and transfers and gets playing time at school B, then by proxy team B is a better (minimizing the talent discrepancy between the teams and increasing the level of talent on the field).

You have a point that the transfers could lead to teams getting "better."
I guess I'm about loyalty, I want to root for a guy for 4 or 5 years, watch him improve, increase his playing time, make meaningful contributions to the team especially once he is an upperclassman. You know kind of the CJ story. Again, I know I'm yelling at clouds here and everyone don't agree and that's OK.

(01-03-2022 07:31 AM)DWING Wrote:  You have a point that the transfers could lead to teams getting "better."
I guess I'm about loyalty, I want to root for a guy for 4 or 5 years, watch him improve, increase his playing time, make meaningful contributions to the team especially once he is an upperclassman. You know kind of the CJ story. Again, I know I'm yelling at clouds here and everyone don't agree and that's OK.

Admittedly there are way too many other factors for my hypothetical situation to hold true in real life. It was a silly example as I just don't see college football getting any "worst" from an entertainment or level of talent perspective because of NIL. Surely, there are going to be one-off situations that people will point in an attempt to show how NIL is bad (intrateam skirmish, money magnifying a bad decision that an athlete was going to make regardless, etc.), but for all of those I think there are going to be several cases where a lot of good is coming from NIL. Here are just a few stories from just last month (forgetting the many untold stories of guys using NIL to help their own struggling families)....
12/7/21 - College Athletes Are Using NILs As a Way to Give Back
12/7/21 - JJ McCarthy Donates Large Sum of NIL Money
12/17/21 - Texas A&M’s Ainias Smith: No Aggie Left Behind; Texas’ Casey Thompson: Community Cameo MVP; Pitt’s Jordan Addison: Helping Kids Dream Bigger; Tennessee’s John Fulkerson: Redefining “True to Your School”
12/20/21 - Tyler Linderbaum, Iowa offensive lineman, donates $30K from NIL money to local children's hospital

To really head down an tangent, how often does an ex pro athlete go bankrupt shortly after their career due to bad money decisions? Hopefully now those guys learn from a $1-100k NIL mistake and not a $10M mistake. Give the freshman a $5k deal, let him blow it on nice shoes and extra Guac at Chipotle and feel the pain of 1099 taxes, I'd rather him make the mistake and learn at 18 with $5k, than 22 with $5M, or even at 22 with $50k when they "go pro in something other than sports." I can't complain that younger folks don't know how to handle money and then argue against real life experiences giving them the opportunity to learn when the risks are much less (which is even outside the whole free/underpaid worker angle of NIL/NCAA).

And I agree on the loyalty part. I don't really like what has seemed like a free agent market the last year or so. Hopefully for every CJ, there will be a Vad Lee. Vad bleeds purple and stayed much more involved with the program than the vast majority of 4+ year Dukes. And heck, I already forgot that Thronton wasn't always a Duke.

Appreciate the dialogue, but given the amount of back and forth at this point, I'm pretty sure one of us has to call the other an idiot to keep the internet balanced. Since since your profile has ODU listed prior to JMU... You are an idiot!

I doubt any of these kids are prepared to pay the taxes on their newfound earnings. Many college athletes think they’re going pro, very few make it, so many of them will come out of school with debts they never should’ve had considering they have no student loans. Hopefully they leave school with a diploma, because getting out of school with debt can be hard to dig out from without discipline.

As soon as I read about the NIL, I thought: "this is ripe for corruption" Scenario: Big $ booster for (fill in the school name) goes to the college town local car dealership and says: "Hey, I will give you $750K if you tell athlete "A" that you will give them $500K NIL if they do a few commercials for you and you can keep $250K for yourself. Or you have a high $ booster that owns a company that gives an athlete an NIL to plug thier company or product. Is there anything to prevent these things from happening? Can an athlete who is given a bunch of NIL $ then filter some of that $ down to other players on the team such as a star QB who gets millions and wants to keep all of the stud linemen on his team that protect him happy? (and not wanting to have them transfer) Can a high paid college athlete give an NIL to another player?

(01-03-2022 08:41 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I doubt any of these kids are prepared to pay the taxes on their newfound earnings. Many college athletes think they’re going pro, very few make it, so many of them will come out of school with debts they never should’ve had considering they have no student loans. Hopefully they leave school with a diploma, because getting out of school with debt can be hard to dig out from without discipline.

Why do you say that? These days more than any point in history the younger generation is making a ton of money with the whole social media influencer thing and marketing their own brand. There is a precedent of young people handling large amounts of wealth and taxes are part of that

(01-03-2022 09:14 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(01-03-2022 08:41 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I doubt any of these kids are prepared to pay the taxes on their newfound earnings. Many college athletes think they’re going pro, very few make it, so many of them will come out of school with debts they never should’ve had considering they have no student loans. Hopefully they leave school with a diploma, because getting out of school with debt can be hard to dig out from without discipline.

Why do you say that? These days more than any point in history the younger generation is making a ton of money with the whole social media influencer thing and marketing their own brand. There is a precedent of young people handling large amounts of wealth and taxes are part of that

They can make all the money in the world, it doesn’t mean they know what to do with it. Being gifted vehicles and money is one thing, they need to realize the tax burdens on such gifts aren’t automatically withdrawn like our paychecks. Many grown adult professionals aren’t equipped with the discipline to set aside part of the proceeds to pay the tax bill when it’s due, to think teenagers will is extremely optimistic. I guarantee you there will be reports coming out in the next few months of college athletes and what they owe Uncle Sam.

(01-03-2022 09:37 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-03-2022 09:14 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(01-03-2022 08:41 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I doubt any of these kids are prepared to pay the taxes on their newfound earnings. Many college athletes think they’re going pro, very few make it, so many of them will come out of school with debts they never should’ve had considering they have no student loans. Hopefully they leave school with a diploma, because getting out of school with debt can be hard to dig out from without discipline.

Why do you say that? These days more than any point in history the younger generation is making a ton of money with the whole social media influencer thing and marketing their own brand. There is a precedent of young people handling large amounts of wealth and taxes are part of that

They can make all the money in the world, it doesn’t mean they know what to do with it. Being gifted vehicles and money is one thing, they need to realize the tax burdens on such gifts aren’t automatically withdrawn like our paychecks. Many grown adult professionals aren’t equipped with the discipline to set aside part of the proceeds to pay the tax bill when it’s due, to think teenagers will is extremely optimistic. I guarantee you there will be reports coming out in the next few months of college athletes and what they owe Uncle Sam.

I'm assuming the vast majority of the athletes signing $10k+ NIL deals have some sort of representation in the deals. This representation is (or will be shortly) tied to professional sports agents/firms given those same athletes are the ones with pro potential and the professional firms will want to establish relationships ASAP. So hopefully there are minimal fly by night situations for the material deals and the reps are educating the athletes. I don't think the smaller deals are going to land on anyone's radar (sports reporters or IRS).

The schools also have a vested interest in making sure this runs smoothly. While schools weren't ready for the July 1st onslaught, the programs seeing the most NIL action have the resources to make sure the athletes are doing it right by IRS (and NCAA).

Antwane Wells looking for a NIL agent https://twitter.com/_Awells13/status/147...95714?s=20

(01-02-2022 07:18 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 06:55 PM)DWING Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 06:36 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-02-2022 05:24 PM)DWING Wrote:  It was wrong (not allowed) before. Now it is in the open.

I'm not saying that the players who bring in Millions of revenue shouldn't be compensated in ways, which they were with tuition/room/board/facilities beyond belief (at least at some P5s)/Cost of Living Allowance/etc. (I'm sure I'm missing some); however, it will change college athletics. For the worst in my opinion, which I'm sure some here will disagree with and let me know.

What do you see getting worst?

Players will go where the $ is.
Schools without the ability to pay top dollar via proxies (JMU/ODU/etc.) will fall further behind.

This along with the Xfer portal, will lead to kids going to school A for $, not getting playing time they believe they are deserving of at school A, then skipping town looking for the next bag a $ and playing time at school B.

Its already happening way to much for my interests. I'll go yell at some clouds now.

Hmmm. The first two sentences were already in place WAY before NIL came about so that's irrelevant IMHO. Again, NIL may speed up what is already in motion, but it isn't the cause and it was going to happen with or without NIL, so to say college athletics are doomed just because of NIL seems odd to me.

And I still don't see how college athletics are getting worse by your statements. If anything I'd say you described how they could get better (from a level of talent on the field) and contradicted yourself regarding the talent discrepancy amongst teams. If an athlete is standing on the sideline at school A and transfers and gets playing time at school B, then by proxy team B is a better (minimizing the talent discrepancy between the teams and increasing the level of talent on the field).

Not to the extent it will be, it's already happening. Player X can get a deal with Carmax by attending UofR or they can get a deal at JMU with Steven Toyota. Where is the potential to raise more money. Is FBS vs FCS enough to offset the money players can make?

For all the 300 schools not in the big boy sandbox. I don't like the structure of the NIL simply because our amateur athletes become professional as soon as they accept money for services. Instead of "I'm going to earn my $80,000.00 degree at JMU and represent my school playing ____" it's now "show me the money" no different than a plumber chasing the best paying company.

(01-03-2022 08:14 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(01-03-2022 07:31 AM)DWING Wrote:  You have a point that the transfers could lead to teams getting "better."
I guess I'm about loyalty, I want to root for a guy for 4 or 5 years, watch him improve, increase his playing time, make meaningful contributions to the team especially once he is an upperclassman. You know kind of the CJ story. Again, I know I'm yelling at clouds here and everyone don't agree and that's OK.

Admittedly there are way too many other factors for my hypothetical situation to hold true in real life. It was a silly example as I just don't see college football getting any "worst" from an entertainment or level of talent perspective because of NIL. Surely, there are going to be one-off situations that people will point in an attempt to show how NIL is bad (intrateam skirmish, money magnifying a bad decision that an athlete was going to make regardless, etc.), but for all of those I think there are going to be several cases where a lot of good is coming from NIL. Here are just a few stories from just last month (forgetting the many untold stories of guys using NIL to help their own struggling families)....
12/7/21 - College Athletes Are Using NILs As a Way to Give Back
12/7/21 - JJ McCarthy Donates Large Sum of NIL Money
12/17/21 - Texas A&M’s Ainias Smith: No Aggie Left Behind; Texas’ Casey Thompson: Community Cameo MVP; Pitt’s Jordan Addison: Helping Kids Dream Bigger; Tennessee’s John Fulkerson: Redefining “True to Your School”
12/20/21 - Tyler Linderbaum, Iowa offensive lineman, donates $30K from NIL money to local children's hospital

To really head down an tangent, how often does an ex pro athlete go bankrupt shortly after their career due to bad money decisions? Hopefully now those guys learn from a $1-100k NIL mistake and not a $10M mistake. Give the freshman a $5k deal, let him blow it on nice shoes and extra Guac at Chipotle and feel the pain of 1099 taxes, I'd rather him make the mistake and learn at 18 with $5k, than 22 with $5M, or even at 22 with $50k when they "go pro in something other than sports." I can't complain that younger folks don't know how to handle money and then argue against real life experiences giving them the opportunity to learn when the risks are much less (which is even outside the whole free/underpaid worker angle of NIL/NCAA).

And I agree on the loyalty part. I don't really like what has seemed like a free agent market the last year or so. Hopefully for every CJ, there will be a Vad Lee. Vad bleeds purple and stayed much more involved with the program than the vast majority of 4+ year Dukes. And heck, I already forgot that Thronton wasn't always a Duke.

Appreciate the dialogue, but given the amount of back and forth at this point, I'm pretty sure one of us has to call the other an idiot to keep the internet balanced. Since since your profile has ODU listed prior to JMU... You are an idiot!

Well played, DDD, well played. I can't wait to get that particular rivalry going again.
For what its worth, I attended ODU through a Navy program, my oldest daughter attended JMU, which is what got me following the Dukes, and my youngest attended ECU. Love the ODU/ECU and ODU/JMU matchups.

Happy New Year.