Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
Author Message
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #41
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-01-2022 09:12 PM)G-Man Wrote:  And I'd also follow-up by pointing out He also said if your right eye offends you, to pluck it out, and that if your right hand offends you, to cut it off. And He also said to His Disciples (and a lot of them abandoned him at that point when He said it) that they needed to eat His body, and to drink His blood.


There are very few people today who seriously study scripture would take those things literally because they are nonsensical in that context and taking them literally blatantly contradicts the rest of scripture. For example, drinking blood and/or eating the flesh of a human is one of the most serious sins in all the OT God laid out. Of course this is a core issue with the Catholic view of Communion (the Eucharist as the call it), but Catholicism is all over the place on scripture.

This is a perfect example of how you TEST scripture against other scripture to be sure you really understating it correctly. That is how the Bible itself tells us to study scripture.

Its also a massive error to uses Jesus words (Jesus explained specifically He was going to speaking in parables and in different ways and why HE did this), and to then try to apply the way you understand a parable or saying from Christ to how you read and understand Acts, Paul, Peter, John and James letters.

Those books, which make up most of the NT, are NOT written in parable form or in an attempt to hide meaning from the pharisees, the lost or those that reject Christ. They are all straight forward words and teachings, meant to be taken fully literally in almost all cases. There is a DRAMATIC difference in the words of Christ and the majority of the NT and how we read and understand them.

Yet a lot of people want to point to Christs words as an excuse to twist the words of Paul, Peter and the others to ignore what they plainly say and instead argue they mean something completely different and hidden that their church knows or only select men in their church understand.

That is unbiblical nonsense people spew to twist the Bible to fit their denomination or personal views.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 02:24 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-01-2022 11:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #42
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-01-2022 04:16 PM)G-Man Wrote:  For example, if our salvation depends on a choice about how we live, and respond to God in this life to receive salvation (which I think is fundamentally necessary-- that we DO live our life here before we die, so that we are able to receive salvation afterward in eternity), then it presents a big possible dilemma:



Now I realize the context here is reincarnation, but I find that idea to be so silly and have a hard time believing any real Christian would believe in reincarnation.

But I would like to say this about salvation and the life we live....

One of the easy ways to see this is that HOW we live our lives is a result and byproduct of our faith and salvation, its not a path to our salvation.

Dead faith does not live a life of works and obedience of Christ, its proclaims faith but the persons life continues in sin. There is no fruit, there is no humbling of oneself to God and the cross, there is no change in their life.

Genuine faith transforms the person from inside outwards. Everyone around that person will see a dramatic change in that person on the deepest of levels. Their old friends still in sin will hate the change and ask "what happened to you, you used to be so much fun" because they no longer seek out sin for pleasure. They no longer want to join them in their sinful practices.

As scripture says, when its real it is a spiritual rebirth inside you, the Holy Spirit does enter you and live inside you. Even when you do sin, the pleasure of that sin is no longer them same, you feel the Holy Spirit grieve inside you. Instead your joy now flows from the Holy Spirit and all the things of God. The joy you get from fellowship with other Christians and worship, the joy you get from sharing the gospel and seeing people come to Christ. The joy you have in knowing the things that await you in eternity with Christ. The pure joy you get from the work and fruits of the Spirit. The joy you have in just reading scripture.

A lot of people avoid coming the Christ and the cross because they don't want to give up things they love, sins that they love and bring them temporary pleasure. They so love those sins that they do not want to let go. They don't yet realize that the Spirit takes that love of sin away and replaces it with the love of the things of God. I think most people who have accepted Christ as an adult understand what I am talking about on this. After spending years in sin, you think you have to give up things you love. Then once they truly accept Christ and are born again in the Spirit, the see that is not the case at all.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 05:00 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-02-2022 12:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Offline
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #43
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
I was always taught that salvation was a three-phase process.

Justification is what Jesus did on the cross (and in the resurrection) that offers salvation by grace to all, the declaration of holiness.
Sanctification is the process of leading an ever more Christlike like, to show our acceptance of and thanksgiving for the free gift of grace, the process of holiness.
Glorification is the process of completing our holiness in the end.

Justification and glorification are the work of God, sanctification is the work of God through us.
03-02-2022 12:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #44
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-02-2022 12:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I was always taught that salvation was a three-phase process.

Justification is what Jesus did on the cross (and in the resurrection) that offers salvation by grace to all, the declaration of holiness.
Sanctification is the process of leading an ever more Christlike like, to show our acceptance of and thanksgiving for the free gift of grace, the process of holiness.
Glorification is the process of completing our holiness in the end.

Justification and glorification are the work of God, sanctification is the work of God through us.


I fully agree and think when we strip away the denominational chains and preconceptions/biases that is EXACTLY what scripture teaches.

And its laid out plainly, not in code or hidden in parable/symbology form. There are parables that touch on it, but its just plainly taught in scripture.

This is basically the thrust of Paul's letters to the Gentile churches.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 12:48 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-02-2022 12:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #45
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-01-2022 10:04 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  So, what about those souls who were born lived and died without ever having knowledge of Jesus Christ? What is their fate?

Some people would claim to know. But all I know is that we each are in the hands of Christ--all of us.

That includes those who died in the womb. It includes those who accept Him to be their Savior and claim to know Him but may or may not be deceiving themselves. It includes those who reject Him (some understanding Him as He is and rejecting His love for them despite this; but others rejecting Him as a result of having had Him be misrepresented-- falsely portrayed as someone He isn't-- so, they rejected a false Christ). And it includes those who lived all of their lives never having heard of Him.

Jesus will sort it all out for everyone in the end.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 08:31 AM by G-Man.)
03-02-2022 07:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #46
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-02-2022 12:28 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(03-02-2022 12:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I was always taught that salvation was a three-phase process.

Justification is what Jesus did on the cross (and in the resurrection) that offers salvation by grace to all, the declaration of holiness.
Sanctification is the process of leading an ever more Christlike like, to show our acceptance of and thanksgiving for the free gift of grace, the process of holiness.
Glorification is the process of completing our holiness in the end.

Justification and glorification are the work of God, sanctification is the work of God through us.


I fully agree and think when we strip away the denominational chains and preconceptions/biases that is EXACTLY what scripture teaches.

And its laid out plainly, not in code or hidden in parable/symbology form. There are parables that touch on it, but its just plainly taught in scripture.

This is basically the thrust of Paul's letters to the Gentile churches.

And I agree, too.

An Eastern Orthodox view would be that Justification includes that which you said, and it's purpose is to give all men eternal life (a free gift, undeserved, made possible by His having over come death by His death), and also restores our ability to receive healing from sin, if we're willing to receive it; but has nothing to do at all with removing God's need to punish us for our sin, or to assuage His anger, because God wasn't ever angry that we were overcome by our sins, nor wanted to punish us for them. Instead He loved us all along, and pitied us for being made incapable of being overcome by our sins and passions; so that through His death and resurrection, He created a way, and has offered us the healing we need to be able to also overcome our sins and passions, with His help.

Likewise about sanctification, it occurs as we continue to resist the world, and never cease to repent anytime we fail in this and whenever we sin to turn away from it again (which we will always be tempted to do until our final breath), never withdrawing from His love and cleansing, and instead being willing to allow Him to continue to change us by keeping His commands of Loving Him with all our Mind Soul and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves* (which will change our nature and cure our passions as we do that).

* Our strength is our individual abilities, giftedness as well as our financial possessions--letting Him be in charge of what we do with them instead of us making those decisions. And our neighbor is to be seen as where these things exist. In other words we are to view our neighbor as who we are. Showing love and mercy to our neighbor is actually loving ourselves. So we don't love ourselves like we love our neighbor, but instead just love our neighbor, so that we find our self in the process.

And the end result of Justification and Sanctification, will be our Glorification which means we have become like God, resulting in our ability to commune and be joined to him in theosis.

But regardless of whether someone views the reasons/conclusions for why it all works the same as someone else (me or anyone else), it works the same, all the same.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 08:40 AM by G-Man.)
03-02-2022 08:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BlueDragon Away
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,013
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 796
I Root For: TSU
Location:
Post: #47
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-02-2022 07:55 AM)G-Man Wrote:  
(03-01-2022 10:04 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  So, what about those souls who were born lived and died without ever having knowledge of Jesus Christ? What is their fate?

Some people would claim to know. But all I know is that we each are in the hands of Christ--all of us.

That includes those who died in the womb. It includes those who accept Him to be their Savior and claim to know Him but may or may not be deceiving themselves. It includes those who reject Him (some understanding Him as He is and rejecting His love for them despite this; but others rejecting Him as a result of having had Him be misrepresented-- falsely portrayed as someone He isn't-- so, they rejected a false Christ). And it includes those who lived all of their lives never having heard of Him.

Jesus will sort it all out for everyone in the end.

Your answer is vague at best. Reincarnation offers a soul another shot. Yours offers hopelessness. Maybe there are a finite set of souls that can accommodate an infinite number of physical bodies. Not sure and there is nothing biblical to support your ideology. I don’t have the answer and neither do you.

Consider ourselves blessed and try your best to open up your mind. Pharisees couldn’t and they no longer exist today

Our God has no parameters so making an attempt to box him in makes no sense.

Ezekiel 37:1-14

Read this

God will do whatever he wants to do regardless of you or I believe. He doesn’t answer to us.
03-02-2022 09:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #48
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-02-2022 09:53 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(03-02-2022 07:55 AM)G-Man Wrote:  
(03-01-2022 10:04 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  So, what about those souls who were born lived and died without ever having knowledge of Jesus Christ? What is their fate?

Some people would claim to know. But all I know is that we each are in the hands of Christ--all of us.

That includes those who died in the womb. It includes those who accept Him to be their Savior and claim to know Him but may or may not be deceiving themselves. It includes those who reject Him (some understanding Him as He is and rejecting His love for them despite this; but others rejecting Him as a result of having had Him be misrepresented-- falsely portrayed as someone He isn't-- so, they rejected a false Christ). And it includes those who lived all of their lives never having heard of Him.

Jesus will sort it all out for everyone in the end.

Your answer is vague at best. Reincarnation offers a soul another shot. Yours offers hopelessness. Maybe there are a finite set of souls that can accommodate an infinite number of physical bodies. Not sure and there is nothing biblical to support your ideology. I don’t have the answer and neither do you.

Consider ourselves blessed and try your best to open up your mind. Pharisees couldn’t and they no longer exist today

Our God has no parameters so making an attempt to box him in makes no sense.

Ezekiel 37:1-14

Read this

God will do whatever he wants to do regardless of you or I believe. He doesn’t answer to us.

I wasn't trying to be vague. Actually, I was trying to express some agreement with you that God can do whatever He wants.

However, saying that "reincarnation offers a soul another shot" doesn't make sense to me, as a way that someone would get a second shot, if God gave us second shots.

I mean, why would it be necessary to have to live another life at all, if the issue is simply that God can do anything he wants, and that includes being willing to give us a second chance after our first life ends?

What would be the purpose for someone needing to live a second life (or more lives) if God can offer someone a second chance? Instead why wouldn't He just offer it to them at the time of Judgement day?

Why wouldn't He just say on that last day, something like, "Okay, you wouldn't accept me during your mortal life, so now I'm giving you a second shot. If you'll change your mind now and accept my salvation, then you can still have it. Or else you can continue to refuse it if you want. It's your choice, so which do you choose?"

But I can't find anything in the Bible where He says anything like that. Instead I can only find the opposite, when He speaks of what will happen on the last day of judgement when some will experience Heaven and others will experience Hell. And He doesn't give any do-overs at that point (according to what He says).

Here's what else I think (and you could be right, that I don't know but am just guessing). I believe we have to figure out which things are Christian fundamental doctrines and which aren't. And I know of no Christian Churches that believe in or teach reincarnation as a possibility for salvation.

Do you know of any? I'd assume that if it was a correct doctrine, then there'd be some Christian Churches teaching it. If you can point me to any information where they are teaching this as part of a means to salvation, then I'd like to hear about it. Seriously, I would.

The only religions I know that promote reincarnation don't claim to be Christian. And from all I've investigated, their message is pretty much the same; that through living enough lives, and continuing to make some progress at being better in each subsequent one, then at some point, a person can finally have perfected their soul to the point where they can be released from having to continue being born. They graduate to a bodiless existence. But the Bible teaches we are resurrected with a renewed body. (By the way, Gnosticism is also a non-Christian belief that believes we need to be "freed" from our bodies and live as spirits.)

And more importantly than the other stuff I just wrote, my final question about it is that if we could keep reliving our lives until we finally become perfect, then why did Christ need to have died and be resurrected, to save us?
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2022 05:23 PM by G-Man.)
03-02-2022 05:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #49
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
"...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

Hebrew 9:27

Reincarnation is not only unbiblical, it totally contradicts the entire Bible. G-man did a good job of laying some of those contradictions out.



John the Baptist was asked directly in the Gospels was he Elijah and he testified he was not. He was no more a "reincarnated" Elijah than Jesus is a "reincarnated" King David. Notice Jesus said "if you will receive it, then is is Elijah foretold to come".

The Bible uses "types and shadows" throughout scripture in this very manner, Paul talked about this in the New Testament. John the Baptist was a "type" of Elijah, but they are two different people, and we will know and see them both in Heaven. Just as King David and Jesus are 2 different people, and we will see them both in Eternity.

We see the REAL Elijah appears later with Moses at the transfiguration.


There will not be one single person cast into the lake of fire who would have believed in the gospel had they heard it. If we learn anything from scripture its God's nature and His nature is righteous and just. The Holy Spirit works with and within people no matter if they are ever exposed to the gospel or not.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2022 05:34 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-02-2022 08:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BlueDragon Away
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,013
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 796
I Root For: TSU
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-02-2022 05:19 PM)G-Man Wrote:  
(03-02-2022 09:53 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(03-02-2022 07:55 AM)G-Man Wrote:  
(03-01-2022 10:04 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  So, what about those souls who were born lived and died without ever having knowledge of Jesus Christ? What is their fate?

Some people would claim to know. But all I know is that we each are in the hands of Christ--all of us.

That includes those who died in the womb. It includes those who accept Him to be their Savior and claim to know Him but may or may not be deceiving themselves. It includes those who reject Him (some understanding Him as He is and rejecting His love for them despite this; but others rejecting Him as a result of having had Him be misrepresented-- falsely portrayed as someone He isn't-- so, they rejected a false Christ). And it includes those who lived all of their lives never having heard of Him.

Jesus will sort it all out for everyone in the end.

Your answer is vague at best. Reincarnation offers a soul another shot. Yours offers hopelessness. Maybe there are a finite set of souls that can accommodate an infinite number of physical bodies. Not sure and there is nothing biblical to support your ideology. I don’t have the answer and neither do you.

Consider ourselves blessed and try your best to open up your mind. Pharisees couldn’t and they no longer exist today

Our God has no parameters so making an attempt to box him in makes no sense.

Ezekiel 37:1-14

Read this

God will do whatever he wants to do regardless of you or I believe. He doesn’t answer to us.

I wasn't trying to be vague. Actually, I was trying to express some agreement with you that God can do whatever He wants.

However, saying that "reincarnation offers a soul another shot" doesn't make sense to me, as a way that someone would get a second shot, if God gave us second shots.

I mean, why would it be necessary to have to live another life at all, if the issue is simply that God can do anything he wants, and that includes being willing to give us a second chance after our first life ends?

What would be the purpose for someone needing to live a second life (or more lives) if God can offer someone a second chance? Instead why wouldn't He just offer it to them at the time of Judgement day?

Why wouldn't He just say on that last day, something like, "Okay, you wouldn't accept me during your mortal life, so now I'm giving you a second shot. If you'll change your mind now and accept my salvation, then you can still have it. Or else you can continue to refuse it if you want. It's your choice, so which do you choose?"

But I can't find anything in the Bible where He says anything like that. Instead I can only find the opposite, when He speaks of what will happen on the last day of judgement when some will experience Heaven and others will experience Hell. And He doesn't give any do-overs at that point (according to what He says).

Here's what else I think (and you could be right, that I don't know but am just guessing). I believe we have to figure out which things are Christian fundamental doctrines and which aren't. And I know of no Christian Churches that believe in or teach reincarnation as a possibility for salvation.

Do you know of any? I'd assume that if it was a correct doctrine, then there'd be some Christian Churches teaching it. If you can point me to any information where they are teaching this as part of a means to salvation, then I'd like to hear about it. Seriously, I would.

The only religions I know that promote reincarnation don't claim to be Christian. And from all I've investigated, their message is pretty much the same; that through living enough lives, and continuing to make some progress at being better in each subsequent one, then at some point, a person can finally have perfected their soul to the point where they can be released from having to continue being born. They graduate to a bodiless existence. But the Bible teaches we are resurrected with a renewed body. (By the way, Gnosticism is also a non-Christian belief that believes we need to be "freed" from our bodies and live as spirits.)

And more importantly than the other stuff I just wrote, my final question about it is that if we could keep reliving our lives until we finally become perfect, then why did Christ need to have died and be resurrected, to save us?

Once again you missed the train standing at the boat dock. Reincarnation is not salvation. You completely ignored the question of how can people who are born live their lives without ever knowing of Christ be condemned?

You continue to assume everyone has had the opportunity to reject Christ. This just isn’t the case.

Did you read Ezekiel? What was the purpose of bringing those men back to life? My point is and still is God can do whatever he wants.

As to Hebrews this could be spiritual or physical.

What is written in Matthew doesn’t change in Greek Lexicon so why try to turn into something it’s not. This wasn’t a parable this was a straight forward response in which he allowed his apostles to open their eyes and understand.

So, are we still waiting on Elijah to return so Christ can come afterward?
03-03-2022 03:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #51
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Once again you missed the train standing at the boat dock. Reincarnation is not salvation. You completely ignored the question of how can people who are born live their lives without ever knowing of Christ be condemned?


No I didn't ignore the question. Instead, I already said before that it's all in Jesus' hands about a situation like this. Neither one of us knows what He'll do. We can hope He'll do one thing or another. But you're claiming I'm dodging a question just because I'm being honest enough to tell you that I don't know the answer to the question. Only God knows the answer. And me or anyone else not knowing what God knows, isn't at all dodging the question; because it's a question that only He can answer.

(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  You continue to assume everyone has had the opportunity to reject Christ. This just isn’t the case.


I've never assumed any such a thing. I've only stated that believing in reincarnation isn't a Christian belief. Whether either one of us wants it to be something different, it just isn't. Or, like I said the first time, if you think I'm wrong about saying it isn't, then let me know which Christian Church teaches reincarnation is a Christian doctrine. Every Church I've ever heard teach about this, all indicate that men only die one time, based on a correct understanding of the Bible about it. And then after men live one life on earth, they all die, before being resurrected.

(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Did you read Ezekiel? What was the purpose of bringing those men back to life? My point is and still is God can do whatever he wants.


Yes and no about reading Ezekiel. I've read it many times before. But I didn't read it again, after you quoted it.

But not reading it again didn't change that I already knew this chapter dealt with the "Valley of the Dry Bones" and How God was going to restore life to them.

And I don't agree at all that this scripture is talking about God giving some group of men a second life on this earth via reincarnation.

Instead, I believe there's not any disagreement among Christians that this is prophesying about the resurrection for God's people, and is a prediction of what will happen as a result of Christ's death and resurrection.

So, the "purpose" of bringing them "back to life" is resurrecting them for eternity.

We could possibly debate whether those dry bones are referring to the Jews or Christians/the Church (I personally believe it's clearly the latter). But either way, it's definitely not talking about reincarnation.

And you can believe I'm wrong, or that anyone else who agrees with me is wrong. Maybe you're right, and anyone who believes like me about it is wrong.

(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  As to Hebrews this could be spiritual or physical.


Well, sure, it "could" mean one or the other, to someone on their own, who is trying to interpret the correct meaning of that scripture for themselves. I could see how they might speculate whether it "could" be referring to something spiritual and not physical or the opposite, or perhaps both. Who knows whether we'll figure something like that out correctly, if we try to figure it out on our own? Martin Luther thought we'd all be able to read a scripture like that, and all agree about the right answer.

But we don't, to we?

It's because two different people can and often do come up with two different answers, when they're both just trying to figure out what the Bible means by themselves, even after each sincerely asking the Holy Spirit to guide them, and then each trusting that whatever they think He's leading them to believe about it, is the correct understanding. And then they come up with different meanings to the correct interpretation anyway.

That's why I've come to believe that the only thing that's actually helpful to know the correct meaning, if/when a scripture "could" mean one thing or something else, is to see if/what the Church has always taught about it.

And it's pretty clear (if you research it, I believe you'll come to the same conclusion; but then again, maybe you won't) that Church leaders from the first century (who probably knew whether the writer of Hebrews was Paul but we're not 100% certain, because we weren't there at the time and they were; so that's why they'd know and we aren't sure) were in consensus that it means physical death, not spiritual death.

And I realize my saying this might not settle the issue for you; but it's the only thing that settles it for me--knowing that the long established Christian doctrine about this verse is that there's no doubt it's referring to physical death. But, if you don't agree, then we'll just have to disagree about it, because speculating that it "could" mean something different, isn't going to persuade me that it does, when I'm convinced the Church teaches that it ONLY is referring to physical death.

(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  What is written in Matthew doesn’t change in Greek Lexicon so why try to turn into something it’s not. This wasn’t a parable this was a straight forward response in which he allowed his apostles to open their eyes and understand.


Well, again, that's your interpretation. And I'm not sure why you think it's so clearly correct the way you're interpreting it. But also again, and more importantly to me, is this isn't what any Christian Church I've ever known of to teach. In fact, ONLY the opposite is taught--that (just like Eric said) the prophecies referring to Isiah coming again before Christ, were referring ONLY to John the Baptist (whom Jesus also said was the greatest prophet of all).

(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  So, are we still waiting on Elijah to return so Christ can come afterward?

We WERE waiting on John the Baptist to come. He did. And then Jesus was baptized by him when God the Father clearly said that Jesus was His Son.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2022 01:18 AM by G-Man.)
03-04-2022 12:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #52
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-03-2022 03:19 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  As to Hebrews this could be spiritual or physical.


A response like this is exactly what I was referring to earlier. When you take this approach (particularity verses like this where the text is CLEALRY not parable and not symbolic), when you do this you are then allowed to make any verse in the Bible say whatever under the sun you need to make it say. There is now no way to prove anything, there is now no way to disprove anything. All there is is your own desire for it to say whatever you need it to say.

And then the entire Bible is completely meaningless and says nothing. Its an empty canvas that is whatever each person needs it to be. And that is NOT what Christ taught, that is not what Paul taught, that is not what anyone in the entire Bible teaches.

This is the method by which ALL false doctrines are justified. The verses that specifically debunk a false doctrine are deemed "possibly spiritual" (not because the text remotely suggests they are, but because the person NEEDS them to be) and thus they do not mean what they plainly say at all. They mean something totally different, whatever that person NEEDS them to mean to justify their false doctrine.

The Bible plainly tells you John the Baptist testified he was NOT actually Elijah in the flesh, but you say that doesn't matter. (You just made John the Baptist a liar)

Hebrews and the entire Bible testified men live and die once, and then the judgement, no reincarnation and "try again". But you say that doesn't matter either.

And so thus NOTHING MATTERS. There is nothing under the sun it can possibly say that will matter on this. There are no words under the sun it can use to prove or disprove otherwise. Its now all just meaningless nonsense that means whatever someone desires it to mean.

There is only one book in all of human history that people play this game with, THE BIBLE.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2022 03:44 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-04-2022 03:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #53
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
AGAIN, Paul openly discusses AND gives multiple examples of how scripture uses "types and shadows", "similitudes" in scripture. Just as David was a "type and shadow" and Christ, or literally dozens of other people in scripture that were a "type and shadow" of Christ. Just as scripture shows John the Baptist to be a "type and shadow" of Elijah. SCRIPTURE DOES NOT REMOTELY SAY OR SUGGEST THEY ARE RE-INCARNADINED PEOPLE. Is Jesus thus a reincarnation of a dozen different people in the Bible, including King David?

That LITERALLY contradicts the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
03-04-2022 03:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ericsrevenge76 Away
Jesus is coming soon
*

Posts: 21,606
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3293
I Root For: The Kingdom
Location: The Body of Christ
Post: #54
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
I'll say this much BlueDragon, you did find a way to get G-man and myself on the same side of a biblical debate which is the miracle of all miracles. That is something I have badly wanted and waited on for a very long time.

PRAISE JESUS, GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!!

LET ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS IN HEAVEN SING!!!


And let me say that regardless of how heated any debates get, I consider both of you to be my brothers in Christ. And I apologize for not being more perfect in my responses when things are heated.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2022 03:38 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-04-2022 03:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BlueDragon Away
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,013
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 796
I Root For: TSU
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-04-2022 03:37 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I'll say this much BlueDragon, you did find a way to get G-man and myself on the same side of a biblical debate which is the miracle of all miracles. That is something I have badly wanted and waited on for a very long time.

PRAISE JESUS, GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!!

LET ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS IN HEAVEN SING!!!


And let me say that regardless of how heated any debates get, I consider both of you to be my brothers in Christ. And I apologize for not being more perfect in my responses when things are heated.

I agree anyone who is a believer in these times and our numbers are shrinking that are actually believers have to band together.

I’m not sure on the realm of importance of salvation where this topic fits into. But I’m probably more open minded than most Christians from all I have been through. It doesn’t hurt my feelings or make me angry as everyone sees things differently. The most important thing is to accept Christ as your savior and be washed in the blood of the lamb and receive the Holy Spirit. Follow his teachings and try to aid and persuade others to see the light. Know we are only instruments for his use. Grace and peace be with you.
03-04-2022 09:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #56
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-04-2022 03:37 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I'll say this much BlueDragon, you did find a way to get G-man and myself on the same side of a biblical debate which is the miracle of all miracles. That is something I have badly wanted and waited on for a very long time.

PRAISE JESUS, GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!!

LET ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS IN HEAVEN SING!!!


And let me say that regardless of how heated any debates get, I consider both of you to be my brothers in Christ. And I apologize for not being more perfect in my responses when things are heated.

Thank you for your apology. It is appreciated and fully accepted without any hesitation. I ask that you please likewise forgive me for anything I've said, at any time in my own posts that has caused offense. There's no doubt that you are devoted to your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I admire and respect your sincere desire to share God's love and salvation with others!
03-04-2022 04:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
G-Man Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,369
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 481
I Root For: Truth & Justice
Location: Cyberspace
Post: #57
RE: Is the Spirit of the Lord Still Here?
(03-04-2022 09:43 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(03-04-2022 03:37 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I'll say this much BlueDragon, you did find a way to get G-man and myself on the same side of a biblical debate which is the miracle of all miracles. That is something I have badly wanted and waited on for a very long time.

PRAISE JESUS, GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!!

LET ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS IN HEAVEN SING!!!


And let me say that regardless of how heated any debates get, I consider both of you to be my brothers in Christ. And I apologize for not being more perfect in my responses when things are heated.

I agree anyone who is a believer in these times and our numbers are shrinking that are actually believers have to band together.

I’m not sure on the realm of importance of salvation where this topic fits into. But I’m probably more open minded than most Christians from all I have been through. It doesn’t hurt my feelings or make me angry as everyone sees things differently. The most important thing is to accept Christ as your savior and be washed in the blood of the lamb and receive the Holy Spirit. Follow his teachings and try to aid and persuade others to see the light. Know we are only instruments for his use. Grace and peace be with you.

04-cheers
03-04-2022 04:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.