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Rice Omicron Update
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 11:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-28-2021 05:53 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  
(12-26-2021 10:40 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  There's no "long flu", but there is "long COVID" which can affect those of college age AND, definitely can affect older individuals, such as faculty and staff.

Wise precaution by the administration.


Sorry, this is a ludicrous decision. Makes no sense.

Which part is ludicrous in your opinion and why?

Delaying the start of in-person teaching for 50+ student classes? Requiring booster shots? Or both?

To me, this seems like a fairly minor adjustment - students can come back as they want on the normal timeline, small/medium classes aren’t affected if professors want to teach in person, and boosters are showing to reduce impacts of infection. There isn’t a major delay or complete shift to online instruction (except for our largest classes for two weeks).

It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

??? And how do you figure that? Mandating boosters will, according to studies conducted so far, WILL help reduce the incidences of Omicron. As for the long term plan, given the volatility of COVID, absolutely no one-- including the CDC-- has a long term plan. You can only make adjustments in policy as conditions change.

The effect of the boosters is very temporary. If Omicron is still there when the boosters wear off - then what? Maybe that is the long term plan - just react to each wave.
12-29-2021 11:43 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #42
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-28-2021 05:53 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  
(12-26-2021 10:40 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  There's no "long flu", but there is "long COVID" which can affect those of college age AND, definitely can affect older individuals, such as faculty and staff.

Wise precaution by the administration.


Sorry, this is a ludicrous decision. Makes no sense.

Which part is ludicrous in your opinion and why?

Delaying the start of in-person teaching for 50+ student classes? Requiring booster shots? Or both?

To me, this seems like a fairly minor adjustment - students can come back as they want on the normal timeline, small/medium classes aren’t affected if professors want to teach in person, and boosters are showing to reduce impacts of infection. There isn’t a major delay or complete shift to online instruction (except for our largest classes for two weeks).

It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

I’d ask again what is ludicrous about the plan.

I believe the goal is likely what you said - avoiding a massive surge of cases that disrupt the start to the semester by forcing more professors to go hybrid and teach to two cohorts of students.

I don’t think any university is attempting to avoid any COVID cases, but rather minimize spikes when possible. From the university’s announcement:

Quote: Most public health experts believe there will not be a clear end to the pandemic as COVID-19 transitions into more of an ongoing endemic condition that is always with us, but generally significantly less life threatening with available vaccines and treatments. This understanding embodies the evolving situation at our university.
12-29-2021 12:50 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #43
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 11:26 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 11:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-28-2021 05:53 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  Sorry, this is a ludicrous decision. Makes no sense.

Which part is ludicrous in your opinion and why?

Delaying the start of in-person teaching for 50+ student classes? Requiring booster shots? Or both?

To me, this seems like a fairly minor adjustment - students can come back as they want on the normal timeline, small/medium classes aren’t affected if professors want to teach in person, and boosters are showing to reduce impacts of infection. There isn’t a major delay or complete shift to online instruction (except for our largest classes for two weeks).

It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

??? And how do you figure that? Mandating boosters will, according to studies conducted so far, WILL help reduce the incidences of Omicron. As for the long term plan, given the volatility of COVID, absolutely no one-- including the CDC-- has a long term plan. You can only make adjustments in policy as conditions change.

The booster shots definitely reduce severe symptoms against Omicron (as I've said up thread-I'm boosted), but to say they prevent infection is specious in the long run. Data shows that their efficacy against infection wanes quite quickly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/healt...icron.html

That’s been my understanding as well - boosters probably help a bit to reduce spread, but it’s not clear that they are significant spread reducers.

Like Rice said in their communication, this is an endemic virus now, so they likely want to limit spikes of cases and make sure students don’t get hospitalized while attending.
12-29-2021 12:57 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 11:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-28-2021 05:53 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  
(12-26-2021 10:40 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  There's no "long flu", but there is "long COVID" which can affect those of college age AND, definitely can affect older individuals, such as faculty and staff.

Wise precaution by the administration.


Sorry, this is a ludicrous decision. Makes no sense.

Which part is ludicrous in your opinion and why?

Delaying the start of in-person teaching for 50+ student classes? Requiring booster shots? Or both?

To me, this seems like a fairly minor adjustment - students can come back as they want on the normal timeline, small/medium classes aren’t affected if professors want to teach in person, and boosters are showing to reduce impacts of infection. There isn’t a major delay or complete shift to online instruction (except for our largest classes for two weeks).

It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

??? And how do you figure that? Mandating boosters will, according to studies conducted so far, WILL help reduce the incidences of Omicron. As for the long term plan, given the volatility of COVID, absolutely no one-- including the CDC-- has a long term plan. You can only make adjustments in policy as conditions change.

Imagine Walt typing that when Trump was in office 03-lmfao
12-29-2021 04:17 PM
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greyowl72 Online
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Post: #45
RE: Rice Omicron Update
As I recall, the primary end point of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials was to reduce serious illness and death from Covid 19. Not the elimination of infection. Boosters are just part of this equation.
And they have succeeded in that regard. In a big way.
I think that there have been a lot of good studies that show that the vaccines also reduce viral shedding. Which probably contributes to decreasing overall infectivity. But this Omicron is…as one noted virologist put it…. the most contagious respiratory virus we have ever seen. So, I don’t really know, exactly, how well the vaccines are holding up in preventing infections. Somebody’s getting the data as we speak, without a doubt.
12-29-2021 04:37 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 12:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I don’t think any university is attempting to avoid any COVID cases, but rather minimize spikes when possible. From the university’s announcement:

Quote: Most public health experts believe there will not be a clear end to the pandemic as COVID-19 transitions into more of an ongoing endemic condition that is always with us, but generally significantly less life threatening with available vaccines and treatments.

I remember a number of thoughtful folks forecasting this outcome 18 months ago. At the time they were considered crackpots and heretics.
12-29-2021 07:09 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #47
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 07:09 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 12:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I don’t think any university is attempting to avoid any COVID cases, but rather minimize spikes when possible. From the university’s announcement:

Quote: Most public health experts believe there will not be a clear end to the pandemic as COVID-19 transitions into more of an ongoing endemic condition that is always with us, but generally significantly less life threatening with available vaccines and treatments.

I remember a number of thoughtful folks forecasting this outcome 18 months ago. At the time they were considered crackpots and heretics.

But to be fair, 18 months ago we were dealing with a more deadly virus and no vaccines. Looking to make COVID endemic at that pinyin was literally, with no exaggeration, condemning millions more to death.

Once vaccines came into the picture, the equation completely changed. We didn’t have a vaccine in mid-2020.
12-29-2021 09:09 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 09:09 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 07:09 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 12:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I don’t think any university is attempting to avoid any COVID cases, but rather minimize spikes when possible. From the university’s announcement:

Quote: Most public health experts believe there will not be a clear end to the pandemic as COVID-19 transitions into more of an ongoing endemic condition that is always with us, but generally significantly less life threatening with available vaccines and treatments.

I remember a number of thoughtful folks forecasting this outcome 18 months ago. At the time they were considered crackpots and heretics.

But to be fair, 18 months ago we were dealing with a more deadly virus and no vaccines. Looking to make COVID endemic at that pinyin was literally, with no exaggeration, condemning millions more to death.

Once vaccines came into the picture, the equation completely changed. We didn’t have a vaccine in mid-2020.

You seem to be criticizing a point that I didn't make. Vaccine development was part of the forecasts I was referring to. Even so, such forecasts were criticized for not aligning with the idea that simply locking down hard enough and long enough would somehow eliminate COVID altogether. That was never a realistic idea.
12-29-2021 09:49 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #49
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 09:49 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:09 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 07:09 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 12:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I don’t think any university is attempting to avoid any COVID cases, but rather minimize spikes when possible. From the university’s announcement:

Quote: Most public health experts believe there will not be a clear end to the pandemic as COVID-19 transitions into more of an ongoing endemic condition that is always with us, but generally significantly less life threatening with available vaccines and treatments.

I remember a number of thoughtful folks forecasting this outcome 18 months ago. At the time they were considered crackpots and heretics.

But to be fair, 18 months ago we were dealing with a more deadly virus and no vaccines. Looking to make COVID endemic at that pinyin was literally, with no exaggeration, condemning millions more to death.

Once vaccines came into the picture, the equation completely changed. We didn’t have a vaccine in mid-2020.

You seem to be criticizing a point that I didn't make. Vaccine development was part of the forecasts I was referring to. Even so, such forecasts were criticized for not aligning with the idea that simply locking down hard enough and long enough would somehow eliminate COVID altogether. That was never a realistic idea.

But vaccine development could have been part of a solution that did not involve an endemic virus. With so much uncertainty about how the virus can, would, or will mutate, the idea of letting the virus run through the population at that time (see Sweden’s herd immunity) was a perspective that welcomed death even more than we already experienced, full stop.

The idea of letting COVID become endemic now, 18 months later, is very different.

But this is likely a matter of perspective that we won’t come to agree on.
12-29-2021 11:11 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-29-2021 12:57 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 11:26 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 11:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Which part is ludicrous in your opinion and why?

Delaying the start of in-person teaching for 50+ student classes? Requiring booster shots? Or both?

To me, this seems like a fairly minor adjustment - students can come back as they want on the normal timeline, small/medium classes aren’t affected if professors want to teach in person, and boosters are showing to reduce impacts of infection. There isn’t a major delay or complete shift to online instruction (except for our largest classes for two weeks).

It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

??? And how do you figure that? Mandating boosters will, according to studies conducted so far, WILL help reduce the incidences of Omicron. As for the long term plan, given the volatility of COVID, absolutely no one-- including the CDC-- has a long term plan. You can only make adjustments in policy as conditions change.

The booster shots definitely reduce severe symptoms against Omicron (as I've said up thread-I'm boosted), but to say they prevent infection is specious in the long run. Data shows that their efficacy against infection wanes quite quickly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/healt...icron.html

That’s been my understanding as well - boosters probably help a bit to reduce spread, but it’s not clear that they are significant spread reducers.

Like Rice said in their communication, this is an endemic virus now, so they likely want to limit spikes of cases and make sure students don’t get hospitalized while attending.

Maybe all that Rice has accomplished is move the on-campus spike out to February. Then what? At what point is endemic taken to mean endemic?
12-30-2021 12:41 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #51
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(12-30-2021 12:41 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 12:57 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 11:26 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 11:20 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-29-2021 10:18 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It won't stop omicron, just spread the cases out across more of the semester.

What's the university's long-term plan? I don't think they have one.

??? And how do you figure that? Mandating boosters will, according to studies conducted so far, WILL help reduce the incidences of Omicron. As for the long term plan, given the volatility of COVID, absolutely no one-- including the CDC-- has a long term plan. You can only make adjustments in policy as conditions change.

The booster shots definitely reduce severe symptoms against Omicron (as I've said up thread-I'm boosted), but to say they prevent infection is specious in the long run. Data shows that their efficacy against infection wanes quite quickly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/healt...icron.html

That’s been my understanding as well - boosters probably help a bit to reduce spread, but it’s not clear that they are significant spread reducers.

Like Rice said in their communication, this is an endemic virus now, so they likely want to limit spikes of cases and make sure students don’t get hospitalized while attending.

Maybe all that Rice has accomplished is move the on-campus spike out to February. Then what? At what point is endemic taken to mean endemic?

And it just might. Something tells me there isn’t a perfect solution to managing a university in the middle of a global pandemic…

If I had to guess, should there be no major change in the virus in the next year, we will see Rice have minimal to no on-campus restrictions regarding masking/delayed start dates in Fall 2022. But this isn’t exactly a static situation, so be prepared for change.

Rice seems to be taking a rather reasonable and measured approach to manage students returning and they clearly want to have in-person classes.
12-30-2021 01:17 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Rice Omicron Update
https://ninernationcares.charlotte.edu/campus-updates

Charlotte going virtual for the first two weeks, and are limiting attendance at sporting events on campus.
12-31-2021 09:27 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Rice Omicron Update
Stanford banning attendance at indoor events and requiring limited capacity and masks at outdoor events. Insane. Especially the latter.
01-04-2022 06:34 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Rice Omicron Update
Colleges maintain strict vaccine mandates despite reports of unexpected heart risks in young adults

Medical professor demands colleges show the science behind "martial law" for student populations already required to be vaccinated.

Quote:Growing evidence of an unexpectedly high incidence of heart inflammation in young adults following two-dose mRNA vaccination is also shining a light on vaccination requirements imposed by colleges.

"Students are the lowest risk population on planet Earth," and yet colleges are "imposing a kind of martial law" on them, Johns Hopkins University medical professor Marty Makary wrote in a scathing essay Tuesday about COVID "dogma" in higher education, particularly elite schools.

"Over the last six months, the risk of a person in the broader age group (15-24) dying of Covid or dying with Covid … was 0.001%," and all or nearly all were "unvaccinated people with a medical comorbidity," said Makary, a member of the National Academy of Medicine.

Universities' Covid Policies Defy Science and Reason
by:
Marty Makary M.D., M.P.H., Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine

Quote:Parents and students should challenge university dogma with data.

Universities are supposed to be bastions of critical thinking, reason and logic. But the Covid policies they have adopted—policies that have derailed two years of students’ education and threaten to upend the upcoming spring semester—have exposed them as nonsensical, anti-scientific and often downright cruel....

Students are the lowest risk population on planet Earth. Over the last six months, the risk of a person in the broader age group (15-24) dying of Covid or dying with Covid (the CDC does not clearly distinguish), was 0.001%. All or nearly all of those deaths were in a very specific subgroup: unvaccinated people with a medical comorbidity. But despite Georgetown’s strict vaccination, masking, testing, and quarantine requirements, the university announced late last month that “all University events, including meetings with visitors, will need to be held virtually or outdoors,” among many other restrictions....

At these institutions of higher learning and thousands more, science is supposedly held in the highest esteem. So where is the scientific support for masking outdoors? Where is the scientific support for constantly testing fully vaccinated young people? Where is the support for the confinement of asymptomatic, young people who test positive for a virus to which they are already immune on a campus of other immune people?

The data simply do not justify any of it.

According to the CDC, the risk of a fully vaccinated adult ending up in the hospital for Covid was 1 in 26,000 for the week ending in November 27. Who was that one person? Not a college student. One analysis of breakthrough infections by age found that the average age of a vaccinated person being hospitalized is 72 years, and the average age of a vaccinated person dying of Covid is 80. The data clearly tell us that the risk of a breakthrough Covid infection resulting in severe illness is extremely rare. When it does occur, it is profoundly skewed toward septuagenarians and octogenarians....

From the beginning of this pandemic, the risk of Covid to young people has always been extremely low, a finding public health officials have downplayed instead of acknowledged. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, children have represented 0.00%-0.27% of all Covid-19 deaths.

In other words, a total of 803 American children have died from Covid or with Covid over the last two years. That’s less than the number of total deaths from both influenza and RSV infection in a typical year before the pandemic. A recent study of children in Germany found that no healthy child between the ages of 5 and 17 died of Covid during a 15-month period when nearly all were unvaccinated. Zero. In the whole country.

And yet there is very much a public health crisis facing young people. It is a crisis that’s been created by these draconian Covid policies—a crisis that’s the result of depriving young Americans of the basic enjoyment of life and the benefits of human connection....

Last week, the CDC reported that weekly deaths in people age 18-29 has decreased to zero from one in five million the week prior. That’s lower than the number of deaths from car accidents, suicide, and firearms in young people. So why are we imposing a kind of martial law on students to ever so slightly reduce the chance that they develop a mild illness?

Current data actually tips the risk to benefit analysis in favor of not boosting young healthy people. Of course, that data could change in the future, at which time we may need to shift our strategy. But at the moment it is not compelling. A recent Israeli study in the New England Journal of Medicine noted zero Covid deaths among double-vaccinated people 16-29 years old without a booster. You can’t lower a risk of zero any further with a booster. But the risk of myocarditis in young people is quite real. A new study published last week by Kaiser Permanente Northwest researchers found that as many as 1 in 1,860 men 18-24 years old developed myocarditis after the second shot. In another New England Journal of Medicine study of 136 people who developed myocarditis, two cases were critical and one 22-year old died.

Schools like Emory, Tulane, Wake Forest and Johns Hopkins, my own university, which are now requiring boosters in healthy young people are venturing into uncharted waters. They are risking health complications in young people for the sake of beating back mild and asymptomatic infections.

Students, parents and university donors should voice their concerns. They should ask good questions, such as: New data last week from the U.K. found that booster efficacy at 10 weeks dropped to 35% with Pfizer and 45% with Moderna, will the university require another booster at that time? And will boosters be required every 3-6 months in perpetuity? How many healthy college students have died from Covid during the pandemic? Will we continue to take all these precautions next year if influenza poses the same case fatality rate? If I have circulating antibodies from prior Covid illness, will the university recognize those antibodies as countries in Europe do? Does the university or CDC have any updated data on mental health problems among students each year over the last three years?

The medical establishment is intoxicated with groupthink, just as it had in believing that Covid spreads through surface transmission, in instituting barbaric policies that prohibited people from visiting their dying loved ones, and in shutting children out of school for a less contagious variant last year. Concerned citizens should challenge medical dogma with data....

It’s time to learn to live with Covid by using some common sense practices: If you’re sick, stay home. If you’re around someone vulnerable, be careful. If you’ve been exposed, wear a real, quality, N95 mask. For the young who have natural or vaccinated immunity, it’s a mild virus that will circulate for the rest of their lives.

I worked at Georgetown hospital for five years as a resident. One crucial lesson my mentors there hammered into me was: Treat the person, not the lab result. When students return to campus later this month—as I hope they will to alleviate a worsening mental health crisis—college administrators need to heed this essential advice.
01-05-2022 04:32 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Rice Omicron Update
From an e-mail late this afternoon…

Dear Owl Club Member,

With the rapidly spreading omicron variant of COVID-19, the university is reinstating a few precautions at Rice Men’s and Women’s Basketball home games to help keep all fans and student-athletes healthy and safe. We want to make sure you have a positive game day experience so please see the information below to help you prepare for the upcoming basketball games.

Until further notice, All Rice Basketball home games will be limited to season ticket members and student-athlete families only.
Until further notice, The Trauber Suite will be limited to a 50 person maximum capacity for eligible Owl Club members.
Rice University’s Face Mask Policy was updated on 12/26/21, and now requires a face covering to be worn at all times when indoors. A person can only remove their mask when they’re actively eating or drinking in the Trauber suite or in the stands.

We’re hopeful that we’ll be in a position sooner rather than later to return to more of a normal game day experience, and we appreciate your patience and partnership as we navigate this time.
01-05-2022 07:21 PM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #56
RE: Rice Omicron Update
(01-05-2022 07:21 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  From an e-mail late this afternoon…

Dear Owl Club Member,

With the rapidly spreading omicron variant of COVID-19, the university is reinstating a few precautions at Rice Men’s and Women’s Basketball home games to help keep all fans and student-athletes healthy and safe. We want to make sure you have a positive game day experience so please see the information below to help you prepare for the upcoming basketball games.

Until further notice, All Rice Basketball home games will be limited to season ticket members and student-athlete families only.
Until further notice, The Trauber Suite will be limited to a 50 person maximum capacity for eligible Owl Club members.
Rice University’s Face Mask Policy was updated on 12/26/21, and now requires a face covering to be worn at all times when indoors. A person can only remove their mask when they’re actively eating or drinking in the Trauber suite or in the stands.

We’re hopeful that we’ll be in a position sooner rather than later to return to more of a normal game day experience, and we appreciate your patience and partnership as we navigate this time.

I'm just happy we didn't go the Stanford route, and I'm especially pleasantly surprised that the Trauber Suite will be open given that all campus serveries are closed until the week of January 26th, and the Cohen House is back to take out only.

BTW, I'll be posting in a separate thread, but the annual RBI Club dinner at Reckling is officially on for the evening of Tuesday, January 18th.
01-05-2022 08:53 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Rice Omicron Update
It's a complete joke-how can we ever expect to have fans when every other team in the city is in a full house and we're shut down to the casual person? Especially in Texas.

Even in generally more restrictive NYC-I can go to a St. Johns game, Seton Hall game, Iona game, etc, with no restriction at all.
01-05-2022 09:11 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Rice Omicron Update
Just for an anecdote-my sister's former roommate at Wash U St. Louis is transferring from Wash U to the University of Missouri due to the comparative covid restrictions at the two schools and the degeneration of the student experience at Wash U. They'll be having in-person classes at UM whereas Wash U is online until early February. She's simply had it with 3+ semesters of restrictions while her friends from the KC area have had a RELATIVELY normal college experience at UM.

I don't believe this is an excuse for an academic issue either-as she is interning for a FAANG company as a software engineer next summer and the company has not rescinded her offer.

Wonder if Rice is seeing any similar transfers out.
01-05-2022 09:18 PM
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Ricefootballnet Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Rice Omicron Update
I suspect that our university administrators look over to New Haven, to Cambridge Mass, to Morningside Heights, and whatever they do in those places, we up the ante slightly and then respond accordingly.
01-06-2022 12:46 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Rice Omicron Update
Rice has tried very diligently and systematically, although perhaps not intentionally, to do everything possible to drive away any fan base over at least the last 50+ years. They have succeeded with me.
01-06-2022 07:23 AM
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