I said above people need to have, 5 year patience. We also need to have 5 year continuity. And with the now handicapped recruit classes when you get a coaching change, due to the early Dec signing, really 6 year continuity.

New HCs 2014, 2016, 2019. And each of those recruit classes took a hit, esp 2019 with the early Dec signing period.
Last 7 seasons: 3 HCs. 4? offensive coordinators. 4? defensive coordinators.

"But NDSU has had coaching changes (2014 and 2019) and they didn't miss a beat". And they also hired from within. Big difference.

We didnt make adjustments in the opening drive of the second half we just ran the same offense we've run all season. The biggest problem is Cignetti decided to open the game with a run up the middle and then two swing passes. Most conservative opening series imaginable and it set the tone for the rest of the half. Could have taken a lot of life out of the stadium with just a few first downs after stopping NDSU

Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

Great post BDK. What you've outlined sums it up very well. The next 5-6 years should be a hell of a ride. I hope people have the patience to enjoy it.

PS: to the numerous complaints about clock management by multiple posters on just about every social media outlet... please find me a coach that doesn't get criticized for this. Seems to be the most common post of all football fans anytime their team doesn't win a game.

Man o man..it's not complaining - there are basic rules to managing a football game, and this crew (and Houston's) have real problems. Put a nerd in the box that has a stats sheet (which the best coaches have memorized).. let's stop acting like this is just part of the game!

(12-19-2021 01:23 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

(12-19-2021 02:17 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 01:23 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

LOL! Yep.

I believe Cignetti is a good, maybe even great, FCS coach (it really doesn't matter if he is good or great for my point). JMU needs a good or great G5 coach. That isn't Cignetti. On an admittedly simple, but accurate, basis; you don't get a good/great G5 coach from Elon, 2 years removed from D2, when they have 40 years of coaching experience. Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired.

EDIT: And to clarify, I support HCCC leading us through this transition period (and not just the 1/2 year NCAA mandate, but the entire transition period of several recruiting classes to that the red-shirt seniors were the ones who committed to a SBC transition team). I hope he is super successful. I hope he is so successful he leads us long past the transition period. And I hope we are ready to pull the trigger as soon as it is evident that he isn't the one to make the next step after that period.

(12-19-2021 03:39 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  I believe Cignetti is a good, maybe even great, FCS coach (it really doesn't matter if he is good or great for my point). JMU needs a good or great G5 coach. That isn't Cignetti. On an admittedly simple, but accurate, basis; you don't get a good/great G5 coach from Elon, 2 years removed from D2, when they have 40 years of coaching experience. Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired.

Wut? Where do you think Kelly (formerly at Norte Dame, now the head coach at LSU) got his start? How about the current Wake Forest HC? There are many other examples. Jim Tressel anyone?

JMU’s HC didn’t get his “start” in coaching as a D2 coach, and your willful distortion of his coaching pedigree makes everything you subsequently have to share worthless.

Cig has the perfect background and level of experience and success to lead JMU through this transition to FBS.

Merry Christmas. Hope you get some balm for your butthurt over not winning multiple, successive NCs since Houston left town.

(12-19-2021 03:50 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 03:39 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  I believe Cignetti is a good, maybe even great, FCS coach (it really doesn't matter if he is good or great for my point). JMU needs a good or great G5 coach. That isn't Cignetti. On an admittedly simple, but accurate, basis; you don't get a good/great G5 coach from Elon, 2 years removed from D2, when they have 40 years of coaching experience. Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired.

Wut? Where do you think Kelly (formerly at Norte Dame, now the head coach at LSU) got his start? How about the current Wake Forest HC? There are many other examples. Jim Tressel anyone?

JMU’s HC didn’t get his “start” in coaching as a D2 coach, and your willful distortion of his coaching pedigree makes everything you subsequently have to share worthless.

Cig has the perfect background and level of experience and success to lead JMU through this transition to FBS.

Merry Christmas. Hope you get some balm for your butthurt over not winning multiple, successive NCs since Houston left town.

First off, could you be any bigger of a prick on here towards other posters? It drives me crazy how much of a pompous ass you are towards everyone but I digress…

I’m pretty sure DDD was referring to HC’ing experience and pedigree with the number of years / tenure he has in the coaching profession. I personally have no idea if any of the coaches you referred to would be good comps with those specific parameters in mind or if there are a number of successful coaches that have a similar coaching path to HCCC in that regard that have been extremely successful after breaking into FBS HC’ing with a similar number of years / experience as he has — I assume there are — but think that was the point he was getting at here.

Either way, I hope you can one day find it in you to have a little humility and not talk down to everyone as though you are all knowing and so much smarter than everyone else, as your shtick is exhausting.

I have struggled w LH at times here...sometimes intensely..but i must say that his demeanor has changed for the better a lot in the last month - Dukes.

(12-18-2021 08:42 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-18-2021 07:47 AM)jmu007 Wrote:  This thread is something. Coaching is fine. People need realistic expectations.

(12-18-2021 08:26 AM)formerjmusprinter84 Wrote:  Did Cignetti miss a wide open Thornton and throw a pick into double coverage instead? Did Cignetti not tackle #44 or not cover him on the long passes he caught? I think our coaching staff is fine. A few execution miscues lost the game last night.

Stop making sense, that’s not allowed around here.

LOL. I am Sr. underwriter and a very analytical and logical thinker. Can't put too much emotion into analyzing a football game performance.

(12-18-2021 01:29 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  If any of this critics are current or former college football coaches with an overall winning record to lean on then what you say comes from experience and has merit. Everyone else is just farting out of their mouths. I'm glad to root for a team that has built up high expectations through winning year in and year out. I'm not going to pretend I know better than the head coach on how to do his job.

100%

(12-19-2021 02:56 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:17 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 01:23 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

LOL! Yep.

Or clock management cost us 4 points from the 5 yard line. My math isnt too good but wouldnt that mean we win that game even with the two missed kicks? Also going into half up 31-16 is much more demoralizing but keep blaming the kicker especially with the entire offense failing to convert those chip shot FGs to TDs

(12-19-2021 03:50 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 03:39 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  I believe Cignetti is a good, maybe even great, FCS coach (it really doesn't matter if he is good or great for my point). JMU needs a good or great G5 coach. That isn't Cignetti. On an admittedly simple, but accurate, basis; you don't get a good/great G5 coach from Elon, 2 years removed from D2, when they have 40 years of coaching experience. Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired.

Wut? Where do you think Kelly (formerly at Norte Dame, now the head coach at LSU) got his start? How about the current Wake Forest HC? There are many other examples. Jim Tressel anyone?

JMU’s HC didn’t get his “start” in coaching as a D2 coach, and your willful distortion of his coaching pedigree makes everything you subsequently have to share worthless.

Cig has the perfect background and level of experience and success to lead JMU through this transition to FBS.

Merry Christmas. Hope you get some balm for your butthurt over not winning multiple, successive NCs since Houston left town.

I agree 100%! Cig not only has ample FBS experience, he also has plenty of P5 experience. He knows intimately what it takes to win at that level because he has been a part of it for a long time. He was part of Saban's original staff that turned Alabama from a pitiful loser to the power they are today. Most importantly, Cig was Saban's Recruiting Coordinator, watching first-hand a master recruiter at work and learning the ropes.

I don't believe there is anyone who could better take us to the next level than Curt Cignetti.

My greatest concern has been our deficiency at quarterback. Since Mr. Undercuffler is coming to JMU, I believe we are set!

And, BDK, I feel comfortable saying that we will compete in at least one SBC championship game by 2027. I believe it will be more than one, but I am very comfortable predicting at least one.

(12-19-2021 04:33 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:56 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:17 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 01:23 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

LOL! Yep.

Or clock management cost us 4 points from the 5 yard line. My math isnt too good but wouldnt that mean we win that game even with the two missed kicks? Also going into half up 31-16 is much more demoralizing but keep blaming the kicker especially with the entire offense failing to convert those chip shot FGs to TDs

So it was Coach Cignetti’s clock management in the 1st half they closed with a 27-16 lead, now it’s the offense failing to convert? Which one was it, because I’m sure most here would look at those shanks as more of the reason.

(12-19-2021 03:50 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 03:39 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  I believe Cignetti is a good, maybe even great, FCS coach (it really doesn't matter if he is good or great for my point). JMU needs a good or great G5 coach. That isn't Cignetti. On an admittedly simple, but accurate, basis; you don't get a good/great G5 coach from Elon, 2 years removed from D2, when they have 40 years of coaching experience. Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired.

Wut? Where do you think Kelly (formerly at Norte Dame, now the head coach at LSU) got his start? How about the current Wake Forest HC? There are many other examples. Jim Tressel anyone?

JMU’s HC didn’t get his “start” in coaching as a D2 coach, and your willful distortion of his coaching pedigree makes everything you subsequently have to share worthless.

Cig has the perfect background and level of experience and success to lead JMU through this transition to FBS.

Merry Christmas. Hope you get some balm for your butthurt over not winning multiple, successive NCs since Houston left town.

You failed miserably to understand the point. Worse, you were a "prick" as already pointed out (except I would have said d!ck). But in an extreme case of irony, you were a prick while literally proving my point (to the exact percentage I might add!).

Kelly got his start at D2, moved to G5 and is now a great P5 coach. That is your point? Your point is Kelly did it so HCCC can? Are you failing to understand that Kelly became a D2 head coach after only 8 years? That he was a P5 HC after 28 years? My point is it took HCCC 28 years to become a HC, and well, at that point he was just a D2 HC that Kelly was after only 8 years. My point is that by the time Kelly reached 28 years of experience he had been the head coach at 4 different programs, and again HCCC was about to start his first (in D2). After coaching for almost 40 years, including lots of years at the FBS level, HCCC still isn't an FBS coach. Kelly became a FBS head coach, with significantly less FBS experience, in half the time it has taken HCCC. Presently at the same age, Kelly has been hired by 4 different FBS programs to be a HC over the last 17 years, yet HCCC hasn't even been hired by a single fBS program to be just a coordinator.

Dave Clawson has a similar resume to HCCC in that he started in FBS, dropped down divisions to take a larger role, and then built back up as a HC. But again you failed to miss the point so I'm going to say it really really really slow so that you don't miss it again. First, I'll quote myself "Absolutely, you could hire a future good/great P5 coach at the FCS level, but they probably had 25% of the coaching experience that Cignetti had when hired." Now, I'll do some math. Clawson was hired as a FCS head coach after 8 years (1991 was first non-GA position, 1999 Fordham HC). HCCC was hired as a FCS head coach after 32 years (1985 first non-GA position, 2017 Elon HC). Now hold on, I'm going to say this very slow, 8 years is 25% of 32 years. You said Merry Christmas, but I didn't realize we were exchanging gifts until you literally gave me an example proving my exact point on a f'ing silver platter. To add, Clawson was a G5 HC at 42, while HCCC is already 60 and still isn't one. Again, further supporting my point that if HCCC had the skills to be/become a good/great G5 coach, history shows that he would already be/been one.

Jim Tressel? Really? That is who you want to run a comparison with? Ha okay! The guy "retired" a decade ago after a storied career coaching. A decade ago he was HCCC's current age. So should we compare their careers from start to age 60? Tressel's first HC job was after 7 years of paid coaching. What is 7 years as a percentage of 32 years? Darn, not 25%? Can we say close enough for hand grenades? Moving on, by the time Tressel was 45, he had 4 FCS national titles. At that age HCCC was a position coach at his 6th school. By the time Tressel was HCCC's current age he had added an FBS national title and 6 Big 10 titles.

"Willful distortion"? Ha! Put down the thesaurus and pull out a calculator so you don't look like an idiot going forward.

(12-19-2021 05:10 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 04:33 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:56 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:17 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 01:23 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Clock management in the villanova game before half cost us the 2 seed and clock management cost us in the first half friday night

If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

LOL! Yep.

Or clock management cost us 4 points from the 5 yard line. My math isnt too good but wouldnt that mean we win that game even with the two missed kicks? Also going into half up 31-16 is much more demoralizing but keep blaming the kicker especially with the entire offense failing to convert those chip shot FGs to TDs

So it was Coach Cignetti’s clock management in the 1st half they closed with a 27-16 lead, now it’s the offense failing to convert? Which one was it, because I’m sure most here would look at those shanks as more of the reason.

Hold on can you double check my work? 31 is more than 28 right? So if we scored 31 pts we would have won the game right? Not positive though, please confirm

Also the fact we couldnt convert from inside the 20 points to coaching as well

(12-19-2021 04:13 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  I have struggled w LH at times here...sometimes intensely..but i must say that his demeanor has changed for the better a lot in the last month - Dukes.

Fair enough and now that you mention it have noticed that a bit lately as well, which is probably why his reverting back to his old ways is rather annoying. We are all Dukes and all want the same end goal for the most part — for our Dukes and beloved university to be the best it can be and regarded as one of the best in the country at sports, academics etc — but we are all humans and will therefore not always agree on things and have different opinions on matters. We should treat each other with respect even when we disagree. With that in mind, I’m sure my responses to LH have been a bit chippy, as his approach frustrated me and has for many years, so for that, I’ll apologize for anything I said that could have been said with more respect and less emotion.

Cheers and happy holidays to all the Dukes and non-Dukes that are on these boards

(12-19-2021 05:35 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 05:10 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 04:33 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:56 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:17 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  If “clock management” is code for the most prolific kicker in college football history shanking 2 chip shot field goals I agree.

LOL! Yep.

Or clock management cost us 4 points from the 5 yard line. My math isnt too good but wouldnt that mean we win that game even with the two missed kicks? Also going into half up 31-16 is much more demoralizing but keep blaming the kicker especially with the entire offense failing to convert those chip shot FGs to TDs

So it was Coach Cignetti’s clock management in the 1st half they closed with a 27-16 lead, now it’s the offense failing to convert? Which one was it, because I’m sure most here would look at those shanks as more of the reason.

Hold on can you double check my work? 31 is more than 28 right? So if we scored 31 pts we would have won the game right? Not positive though, please confirm

Also the fact we couldnt convert from inside the 20 points to coaching as well

No need to be a total condescending tool about it. Having a full 30 minutes to make up for a 12 point lead at halftime as opposed to a 15 point lead is nowhere near having your kicker shank 2 FGs on your last 2 possessions of the game. There’s no adjusting for that. Coaches coach, player execute…or don’t, and we don’t convert. But then again, if it wasn’t the clock management it would be coach’s fault in some other way, perhaps he had them call heads instead of tails.

(12-19-2021 05:45 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 05:35 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 05:10 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 04:33 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(12-19-2021 02:56 PM)Purple Wrote:  LOL! Yep.

Or clock management cost us 4 points from the 5 yard line. My math isnt too good but wouldnt that mean we win that game even with the two missed kicks? Also going into half up 31-16 is much more demoralizing but keep blaming the kicker especially with the entire offense failing to convert those chip shot FGs to TDs

So it was Coach Cignetti’s clock management in the 1st half they closed with a 27-16 lead, now it’s the offense failing to convert? Which one was it, because I’m sure most here would look at those shanks as more of the reason.

Hold on can you double check my work? 31 is more than 28 right? So if we scored 31 pts we would have won the game right? Not positive though, please confirm

Also the fact we couldnt convert from inside the 20 points to coaching as well

No need to be a total condescending tool about it. Having a full 30 minutes to make up for a 12 point lead at halftime as opposed to a 15 point lead is nowhere near having your kicker shank 2 FGs on your last 2 possessions of the game. There’s no adjusting for that. Coaches coach, player execute…or don’t, and we don’t convert. But then again, if it wasn’t the clock management it would be coach’s fault in some other way, perhaps he had them call heads instead of tails.

So 30 minutes with 0 points is also not on the coach? Bottom line great coaches win games against teams with equal talent and cignetti is 0-5 against them, that is not arguable.

Btw you started the condescending tone, sorry for dishing it back