(03-18-2022 10:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Finally someone goes analytic and points out what is hurting conferences like the MAC. I share this post, unedited:

'kreed5120 Wrote:
I feel what often gets missed is how much NCAA division one has grown. Someone shared in another room that compared to 1985 when the tournament was 64, division 1 has added 158 more teams. Before 32% of teams made it (64/200=0.32) teams made it. Now only about 19% do (68/358). This means it's considerably tougher now to make the field than what it was for the MAC teams of the 80s and 90s.

Outside of a once in a decade season by a team like Buffalo who instead of winning AQ loses in the conference tournament, I just don't see the MAC producing at-large bids under the current format. The tournament would need to expand to ~96 IMO for the MAC to become a more consistent bid league. Even with 96 teams only 27% of current teams would make the tournament, which is still fewer compared to 1985.

So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

(03-17-2022 11:06 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 10:07 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  We’ll, Akron up by 1 at half against UCLA. A low scoring defensive battle at 26-25.

Akron 51 UCLA 47 3 minutes left! Win or lose, Akron made the MAC proud! What Groce has done in 3 seasons is very impressive!

Unfortunately, I fell asleep. And unfortunately it ended as a loss. But indeed, Akron played admirably. Groce did well at Ohio. Then not stellar at Illinois but by no means a failure there either. Seems to be doing well at Akron. Wondering if he will be picked for another high major job…

(03-18-2022 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Finally someone goes analytic and points out what is hurting conferences like the MAC. I share this post, unedited:

'kreed5120 Wrote:
I feel what often gets missed is how much NCAA division one has grown. Someone shared in another room that compared to 1985 when the tournament was 64, division 1 has added 158 more teams. Before 32% of teams made it (64/200=0.32) teams made it. Now only about 19% do (68/358). This means it's considerably tougher now to make the field than what it was for the MAC teams of the 80s and 90s.

Outside of a once in a decade season by a team like Buffalo who instead of winning AQ loses in the conference tournament, I just don't see the MAC producing at-large bids under the current format. The tournament would need to expand to ~96 IMO for the MAC to become a more consistent bid league. Even with 96 teams only 27% of current teams would make the tournament, which is still fewer compared to 1985.

So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

Your last two posts were fabulous.

Kreed pointed out something I did not realize. The NCAA has changed in a seismic manner. Remember the famous John Wooden and all those NCAA championships? In those days the tourney was a 16 team field and the regionals, like the Midwest regional only had teams from the Midwest. Wooden played in the West where nobody really played ball then and beat two patsies to get to the final four. Win two more and you go home with the trophy, a much easier road than today than today's gauntlet.

The tourney clearly needs expansion, a 128 team field would only add one extra round. It could also eliminate the injustice of the MAC or Horizon League regular season winner being left at home if upset in the conference tourney. Nevertheless the MAC still just is not getting the horses today, the NBA draft is proof of that.

Your comment on coaching is spot on as well. The Mark Few comparison, however, is fuzzy at best. Few indeed coaches at a private University, an institution where his compensation is under far less scrutiny than that of a MAC school. His published salary of $1.8M is far higher than anyone in the MAC and one could question if that figure if that is all-inclusive.

Still, you nailed it, the quality of MAC coaches has precipitated the decline of the league. Monty, Murph, Whitford and Keno in the MAC West all had at least NINE years at their schools with unremarkable results. Either they were "mailing it in" or just were not capable, yet they had some awfully long tenures at their schools. Their performance provided fertile ground for Oats, Boals and the return of Groce.

I like a 96 team tourney which instead of "First Four" is really "First Sixty Four."

32 teams will be winners which is good for them and should weed out really poor automatic qualifiers. Maybe the SWAC qualifier might be seeded in the 90s rather than in the 60s and a 16 seed. This eliminates some bad 1 / 16 games. Say a team ranked 1 - 4 in the NCAA Net playing a team which might be ranked 200+.

After the "First Sixty Four" round held over two days, say the Tuesday and Wednesday, theoretically we have the 64 best teams. We can not say that now as many invitees are clearly top 64 (or even top 100 caliber).

OR we could have the "First 32" which produces 16 winners to go with 48 team which go directly to the first round. That would be 48 + 32 for the play-in round for a total of 80.

In the WOMEN's side I watched on ESPN #1 overall S. Carolina take on Howard, ranked #247. WBB can be brutal in the tourney. Lot less parity than men.

S.Carolina led 22 - 2 after the first quarter and 44 - 4 at the half... Awful show to watch. I turned on the Tigers pre-season game.

(03-18-2022 04:55 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Finally someone goes analytic and points out what is hurting conferences like the MAC. I share this post, unedited:

'kreed5120 Wrote:
I feel what often gets missed is how much NCAA division one has grown. Someone shared in another room that compared to 1985 when the tournament was 64, division 1 has added 158 more teams. Before 32% of teams made it (64/200=0.32) teams made it. Now only about 19% do (68/358). This means it's considerably tougher now to make the field than what it was for the MAC teams of the 80s and 90s.

Outside of a once in a decade season by a team like Buffalo who instead of winning AQ loses in the conference tournament, I just don't see the MAC producing at-large bids under the current format. The tournament would need to expand to ~96 IMO for the MAC to become a more consistent bid league. Even with 96 teams only 27% of current teams would make the tournament, which is still fewer compared to 1985.

So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

Your last two posts were fabulous.

Kreed pointed out something I did not realize. The NCAA has changed in a seismic manner. Remember the famous John Wooden and all those NCAA championships? In those days the tourney was a 16 team field and the regionals, like the Midwest regional only had teams from the Midwest. Wooden played in the West where nobody really played ball then and beat two patsies to get to the final four. Win two more and you go home with the trophy, a much easier road than today than today's gauntlet.

The tourney clearly needs expansion, a 128 team field would only add one extra round. It could also eliminate the injustice of the MAC or Horizon League regular season winner being left at home if upset in the conference tourney. Nevertheless the MAC still just is not getting the horses today, the NBA draft is proof of that.

Your comment on coaching is spot on as well. The Mark Few comparison, however, is fuzzy at best. Few indeed coaches at a private University, an institution where his compensation is under far less scrutiny than that of a MAC school. His published salary of $1.8M is far higher than anyone in the MAC and one could question if that figure if that is all-inclusive.

Still, you nailed it, the quality of MAC coaches has precipitated the decline of the league. Monty, Murph, Whitford and Keno in the MAC West all had at least NINE years at their schools with unremarkable results. Either they were "mailing it in" or just were not capable, yet they had some awfully long tenures at their schools. Their performance provided fertile ground for Oats, Boals and the return of Groce.

It's these contracts that is if you have one above average year win you get another year. They are not based on quality of wins but on quantity.

(03-19-2022 06:00 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 04:55 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Finally someone goes analytic and points out what is hurting conferences like the MAC. I share this post, unedited:

'kreed5120 Wrote:
I feel what often gets missed is how much NCAA division one has grown. Someone shared in another room that compared to 1985 when the tournament was 64, division 1 has added 158 more teams. Before 32% of teams made it (64/200=0.32) teams made it. Now only about 19% do (68/358). This means it's considerably tougher now to make the field than what it was for the MAC teams of the 80s and 90s.

Outside of a once in a decade season by a team like Buffalo who instead of winning AQ loses in the conference tournament, I just don't see the MAC producing at-large bids under the current format. The tournament would need to expand to ~96 IMO for the MAC to become a more consistent bid league. Even with 96 teams only 27% of current teams would make the tournament, which is still fewer compared to 1985.

So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

Your last two posts were fabulous.

Kreed pointed out something I did not realize. The NCAA has changed in a seismic manner. Remember the famous John Wooden and all those NCAA championships? In those days the tourney was a 16 team field and the regionals, like the Midwest regional only had teams from the Midwest. Wooden played in the West where nobody really played ball then and beat two patsies to get to the final four. Win two more and you go home with the trophy, a much easier road than today than today's gauntlet.

The tourney clearly needs expansion, a 128 team field would only add one extra round. It could also eliminate the injustice of the MAC or Horizon League regular season winner being left at home if upset in the conference tourney. Nevertheless the MAC still just is not getting the horses today, the NBA draft is proof of that.

Your comment on coaching is spot on as well. The Mark Few comparison, however, is fuzzy at best. Few indeed coaches at a private University, an institution where his compensation is under far less scrutiny than that of a MAC school. His published salary of $1.8M is far higher than anyone in the MAC and one could question if that figure if that is all-inclusive.

Still, you nailed it, the quality of MAC coaches has precipitated the decline of the league. Monty, Murph, Whitford and Keno in the MAC West all had at least NINE years at their schools with unremarkable results. Either they were "mailing it in" or just were not capable, yet they had some awfully long tenures at their schools. Their performance provided fertile ground for Oats, Boals and the return of Groce.

It's these contracts that is if you have one above average year win you get another year. They are not based on quality of wins but on quantity.

Somewhat. I believe I read an article on a contract extension (Murphy's???). It was wins OR a post season appearance OR...

As we have discussed apparently this type of contract is fairly standard in college sports today.

(03-19-2022 08:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-19-2022 06:00 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 04:55 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Finally someone goes analytic and points out what is hurting conferences like the MAC. I share this post, unedited:

'kreed5120 Wrote:
I feel what often gets missed is how much NCAA division one has grown. Someone shared in another room that compared to 1985 when the tournament was 64, division 1 has added 158 more teams. Before 32% of teams made it (64/200=0.32) teams made it. Now only about 19% do (68/358). This means it's considerably tougher now to make the field than what it was for the MAC teams of the 80s and 90s.

Outside of a once in a decade season by a team like Buffalo who instead of winning AQ loses in the conference tournament, I just don't see the MAC producing at-large bids under the current format. The tournament would need to expand to ~96 IMO for the MAC to become a more consistent bid league. Even with 96 teams only 27% of current teams would make the tournament, which is still fewer compared to 1985.

So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

Your last two posts were fabulous.

Kreed pointed out something I did not realize. The NCAA has changed in a seismic manner. Remember the famous John Wooden and all those NCAA championships? In those days the tourney was a 16 team field and the regionals, like the Midwest regional only had teams from the Midwest. Wooden played in the West where nobody really played ball then and beat two patsies to get to the final four. Win two more and you go home with the trophy, a much easier road than today than today's gauntlet.

The tourney clearly needs expansion, a 128 team field would only add one extra round. It could also eliminate the injustice of the MAC or Horizon League regular season winner being left at home if upset in the conference tourney. Nevertheless the MAC still just is not getting the horses today, the NBA draft is proof of that.

Your comment on coaching is spot on as well. The Mark Few comparison, however, is fuzzy at best. Few indeed coaches at a private University, an institution where his compensation is under far less scrutiny than that of a MAC school. His published salary of $1.8M is far higher than anyone in the MAC and one could question if that figure if that is all-inclusive.

Still, you nailed it, the quality of MAC coaches has precipitated the decline of the league. Monty, Murph, Whitford and Keno in the MAC West all had at least NINE years at their schools with unremarkable results. Either they were "mailing it in" or just were not capable, yet they had some awfully long tenures at their schools. Their performance provided fertile ground for Oats, Boals and the return of Groce.

It's these contracts that is if you have one above average year win you get another year. They are not based on quality of wins but on quantity.

Somewhat. I believe I read an article on a contract extension (Murphy's???). It was wins OR a post season appearance OR...

As we have discussed apparently this type of contract is fairly standard in college sports today.

Creighton's new contract.

(03-19-2022 08:52 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(03-19-2022 08:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-19-2022 06:00 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 04:55 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  So the B1G still gets its 9 bids and the mid majors share the same number of at large bids among many more teams, in more conferences.

Sure a team or two or half dozen will rise to the top of the mid-major for one reason or another. Everyone loves to talk about Gonzaga. Gonzaga is and have been a power for a long time because Few has stayed seemingly forever at a mid-major.

What would have happened it Rick Majerus had stayed at Ball State for 10 or 15 years. Ditto Ben Braun at EMU. Oats at UB.

The best way to get to the top and stay there, HM or MM, or P5 or G5, is to get a great coach and hope he stays there for decades. It could be Bo at UofM, Saban at Alabama, Joe Paterno at PSU. Maybe if P.J. would have stayed at WMU.

And, of course, in this March Madness, the legendary Coach K. And Dean Smith from the past.

Your last two posts were fabulous.

Kreed pointed out something I did not realize. The NCAA has changed in a seismic manner. Remember the famous John Wooden and all those NCAA championships? In those days the tourney was a 16 team field and the regionals, like the Midwest regional only had teams from the Midwest. Wooden played in the West where nobody really played ball then and beat two patsies to get to the final four. Win two more and you go home with the trophy, a much easier road than today than today's gauntlet.

The tourney clearly needs expansion, a 128 team field would only add one extra round. It could also eliminate the injustice of the MAC or Horizon League regular season winner being left at home if upset in the conference tourney. Nevertheless the MAC still just is not getting the horses today, the NBA draft is proof of that.

Your comment on coaching is spot on as well. The Mark Few comparison, however, is fuzzy at best. Few indeed coaches at a private University, an institution where his compensation is under far less scrutiny than that of a MAC school. His published salary of $1.8M is far higher than anyone in the MAC and one could question if that figure if that is all-inclusive.

Still, you nailed it, the quality of MAC coaches has precipitated the decline of the league. Monty, Murph, Whitford and Keno in the MAC West all had at least NINE years at their schools with unremarkable results. Either they were "mailing it in" or just were not capable, yet they had some awfully long tenures at their schools. Their performance provided fertile ground for Oats, Boals and the return of Groce.

It's these contracts that is if you have one above average year win you get another year. They are not based on quality of wins but on quantity.

Somewhat. I believe I read an article on a contract extension (Murphy's???). It was wins OR a post season appearance OR...

As we have discussed apparently this type of contract is fairly standard in college sports today.

Creighton's new contract.

Yes. It was his, I believe. MLive? OR someone elses but same general terms.

What if the MAC capped spending on football and heavily invested in basketball - Toledo Blade

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0220326091


Maybe it’s because a men’s basketball team from the Mid-American Conference damn near won a game in a fourth straight NCAA tournament.

Maybe it’s because a team from the Mountain West — which got FOUR bids this year — still hasn’t won in the dance since 2018.

Or maybe it’s just because we’re prisoners of this spellbinding month (how about Saint Peter’s of the other MAAC?!) and really have gone hoops mad.

(03-27-2022 06:10 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  What if the MAC capped spending on football and heavily invested in basketball - Toledo Blade

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0220326091


Maybe it’s because a men’s basketball team from the Mid-American Conference damn near won a game in a fourth straight NCAA tournament.

Maybe it’s because a team from the Mountain West — which got FOUR bids this year — still hasn’t won in the dance since 2018.

Or maybe it’s just because we’re prisoners of this spellbinding month (how about Saint Peter’s of the other MAAC?!) and really have gone hoops mad.

You make a valid point.

Unfortunately, the money is in FOOTBALL!
https://www.espn.com/blog/bigeast/post/_...l-revenues