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Towson @ Kent State
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fallsdog Offline
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Towson @ Kent State
Towson will present the Golden Flashes with a stiff challenge. The Tigers are 5-3 with wins over New Mexico, Penn, Albany and Hampton. The played both Pitt and San Francisco tough in defeat.

KSU has certainly played some good mid - major competition and that continues tonight.

It appears that Cam Holden is quite a load...

https://towsontigers.com/sports/mens-bas...ts/2021-22
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2021 01:24 PM by fallsdog.)
12-06-2021 10:46 AM
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Albert Flasher Online
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
For what it's worth... Towson was chosen to finish eighth (of ten) in the CAA pre-season poll. Their out of conference results may indicate otherwise.
12-06-2021 11:22 AM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-06-2021 11:22 AM)Albert Flasher Wrote:  For what it's worth... Towson was chosen to finish eighth (of ten) in the CAA pre-season poll. Their out of conference results may indicate otherwise.

Ouch!!!!
12-06-2021 09:10 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
Vicious combination of us not making any shots while they're not missing any. At least in the first half.

Good comeback attempt. The no call on Hamilton's layup attempt down 3 was pretty much game over. They scored it felt like before Hamilton even got to his feet and it seemed like it took us off our game from that point out. Gotta learn better composure than that. Bad calls happen. Not the reason we lost. Getting down 20 something in the first 10 minutes is why we lost.

PS. The refs should be subjected to eye tests though. Can't think of many uncalled fouls I've seen more obvious than that. It wasn't even in traffic so they weren't blocked out.
12-06-2021 09:37 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-06-2021 09:37 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Vicious combination of us not making any shots while they're not missing any. At least in the first half.

Good comeback attempt. The no call on Hamilton's layup attempt down 3 was pretty much game over. They scored it felt like before Hamilton even got to his feet and it seemed like it took us off our game from that point out. Gotta learn better composure than that. Bad calls happen. Not the reason we lost. Getting down 20 something in the first 10 minutes is why we lost.

PS. The refs should be subjected to eye tests though. Can't think of many uncalled fouls I've seen more obvious than that. It wasn't even in traffic so they weren't blocked out.

I know it happens to a lot of mid-majors with post injuries blowing up a season ... but no inside game is a killer no matter how good your guards are. For years Kent has always had a decent go-to scorer on the baseline, but not now.

Have to go back to pre-Gary Waters to find a collection of baseline players as tepid as JHam, Beck, Johnson. No physicality with that bunch at all. ... Clearly Odusipe and Hornbeack aren't ready and Garcia is still a ??? ... if not done.

A roster that looked good on paper back in July-August doesn't look the same now. Senderoff must be pulling his hair out ... think about that!!!
12-06-2021 09:49 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
I don't know. I was calling this a rebuild season. Although I don't know what we're rebuilding from. Haven't won a title in 5 years now. (All thanks to Jimmy Hall lighting up on a weekend in March '17.)
The Sendy "watch-pint-dry offense" I've been seeing for a decade it getting really old and, frankly, not worth more than a movie ticket.
I've never seen a team come out of timeouts and not score like Senderoff's teams. I wish there were a stat for that.
12-06-2021 10:02 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-06-2021 10:02 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  I don't know. I was calling this a rebuild season. Although I don't know what we're rebuilding from. Haven't won a title in 5 years now. (All thanks to Jimmy Hall lighting up on a weekend in March '17.)
The Sendy "watch-pint-dry offense" I've been seeing for a decade it getting really old and, frankly, not worth more than a movie ticket.
I've never seen a team come out of timeouts and not score like Senderoff's teams. I wish there were a stat for that.

Your mind is playing tricks on you ... first, just last season that 'paint dry offense' was averaging better than 80 ppg until injuries and meltdown the last two weeks of the season ...

As for scoring out of timeouts, this was always a strength not a weakness, specifically because of KSU's ability to score on the block. Go on ESPN and pick 2-3 random games from last year or the year before ... then go through the PBP and see how well Kent either scored or went to the line coming out of timeouts.

Goodness knows Senderoff has his flaws, but the two you picked are off the mark.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2021 10:32 PM by cleveland.)
12-06-2021 10:31 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
In Kent’s three losses its offensive output has been:

59
51
58

The defense isn’t good enough right now to win games when you don’t even crack 60.

And just a side note, Jimmy Hall gets all the credit for carrying Kent to the MAC title in 2017 but no one seems to remember Jaylin Walker averaged 20 points in each of those four tournament games, including a game-high 30 in the finals.
12-07-2021 08:30 AM
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Muskrat Online
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
It's way too early to know for sure, of course, but what I see is a typical team in the Senderoff era - about 20 wins, give or take and about 10 MAC wins. Fans spoiled by the Waters/Heath/Christian/Ford era when Kent State basketball was the marquee name in the MAC will find that, if it comes to pass, disappointing. Those of us who have been around longer (I started following Kent State sports in the fall of 1963) and experienced countless horrors (the nadir being back-to-back home losses to Mount Union and Steubenville, with neither game being particularly close) will be less so. The game has changed over the last 10 years, with the constant transfers all over the nation being a big factor. I've come to appreciate Senderoff. He's not a great coach but is certainly a darned good one. Avoiding having even a single losing season at a mid-major with limited resources is, actually, quite an accomplishment.
12-07-2021 09:48 AM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 08:30 AM)JimJoyce Wrote:  In Kent’s three losses its offensive output has been:

59
51
58

The defense isn’t good enough right now to win games when you don’t even crack 60.

And just a side note, Jimmy Hall gets all the credit for carrying Kent to the MAC title in 2017 but no one seems to remember Jaylin Walker averaged 20 points in each of those four tournament games, including a game-high 30 in the finals.

Yeah, I always felt that both deserve all the credit.
12-07-2021 09:59 AM
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fallsdog Offline
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2021 11:41 AM by fallsdog.)
12-07-2021 11:40 AM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

Hmm maybe THAT’S why we couldnt even get 1400 people there to see it.
12-07-2021 01:41 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

Not sure of your point. Are you saying that after decades of mostly "lows", then a decade of real "highs", Kent State basketball, reached its new normal?
12-07-2021 01:46 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

I came to this conclusion about 8 years ago. Even Geno developed players and managed games better. Christian was incredible. Sendy seemed like the right guy at the time, but ever since we have declined. I'm not basing this off last night. His career hangs on Jaylin Walker/Jimmy Hall coming out of nowhere and having a blowout weekend in 2017. Since then its been several 20-win seasons developed off weak scheduling.
12-07-2021 03:52 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 03:52 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

I came to this conclusion about 8 years ago. Even Geno developed players and managed games better. Christian was incredible. Sendy seemed like the right guy at the time, but ever since we have declined. I'm not basing this off last night. His career hangs on Jaylin Walker/Jimmy Hall coming out of nowhere and having a blowout weekend in 2017. Since then its been several 20-win seasons developed off weak scheduling.

Since you mentioned Jaylin Walker ... I would think the consensus on this board is he 'developed' over the course of his career. His main issue was his biggest strength was also his weakness ... and if you don't think Jaylen Avery improved from freshmen to senior I can't help you. ADR certainly improved his two years at Kent ... Now, did Mitch Peterson improve, not much, but he was still a productive player. Did Whittington improve ... not much, but he was a productive player as well. Did Jimmy Hall improve, certainly. Dev Manley certainly improved, Kris Brewer improved, Derek Jackson improved ... this kind of cherry-pickin about coaching -- be it football or basketball -- seems to dismiss the fact other teams have gotten better not to mention how much the game has changed over the 10 years RS has been the coach.

Eight years ago Kent and Akron were the top of the league ... Buffalo, Toledo, BG were mid-pack. Now look. Kent and Akron are mid-pack (upper middle) and observers seem to feel those other three teams have leap-frogged NE Ohio.

As someone mentioned earlier ... Senderoff may not be the best coach in the league, but (1) he has proven to be a consistent winner and (2) he has proven he can rise to the occasion with enough talent at hand.

Let's not forget, that JHall NCAA team had to beat a team with the leading scorer in the nation (thanks JAvery) in overtime, a Buffalo team looking for a NCAA Tournament repeat, an Ohio team that was favored and Akron which was not only favored, but had won the league by 2-3 games and had the MAC POY.

As the saying goes ... you're usually better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

And I'll add this ... for those who remember the last regulation sequence of the CMU OTime game, coming out of a timeout (!!!!) Kent got the ball to JHall on the block where he was mauled so bad he could barely get the ball above his head before it was knocked away. CMU missed a bustout 3-pointer to win. The So-Jr JHall likely would have gotten a tech complaining about the missed call. The Sr. JHall kept his composure and played to the end. ..... He improved.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2021 06:02 PM by cleveland.)
12-07-2021 05:55 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 05:55 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 03:52 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

I came to this conclusion about 8 years ago. Even Geno developed players and managed games better. Christian was incredible. Sendy seemed like the right guy at the time, but ever since we have declined. I'm not basing this off last night. His career hangs on Jaylin Walker/Jimmy Hall coming out of nowhere and having a blowout weekend in 2017. Since then its been several 20-win seasons developed off weak scheduling.

Since you mentioned Jaylin Walker ... I would think the consensus on this board is he 'developed' over the course of his career. His main issue was his biggest strength was also his weakness ... and if you don't think Jaylen Avery improved from freshmen to senior I can't help you. ADR certainly improved his two years at Kent ... Now, did Mitch Peterson improve, not much, but he was still a productive player. Did Whittington improve ... not much, but he was a productive player as well. Did Jimmy Hall improve, certainly. Dev Manley certainly improved, Kris Brewer improved, Derek Jackson improved ... this kind of cherry-pickin about coaching -- be it football or basketball -- seems to dismiss the fact other teams have gotten better not to mention how much the game has changed over the 10 years RS has been the coach.

Eight years ago Kent and Akron were the top of the league ... Buffalo, Toledo, BG were mid-pack. Now look. Kent and Akron are mid-pack (upper middle) and observers seem to feel those other three teams have leap-frogged NE Ohio.

As someone mentioned earlier ... Senderoff may not be the best coach in the league, but (1) he has proven to be a consistent winner and (2) he has proven he can rise to the occasion with enough talent at hand.

Let's not forget, that JHall NCAA team had to beat a team with the leading scorer in the nation (thanks JAvery) in overtime, a Buffalo team looking for a NCAA Tournament repeat, an Ohio team that was favored and Akron which was not only favored, but had won the league by 2-3 games and had the MAC POY.

As the saying goes ... you're usually better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

And I'll add this ... for those who remember the last regulation sequence of the CMU OTime game, coming out of a timeout (!!!!) Kent got the ball to JHall on the block where he was mauled so bad he could barely get the ball above his head before it was knocked away. CMU missed a bustout 3-pointer to win. The So-Jr JHall likely would have gotten a tech complaining about the missed call. The Sr. JHall kept his composure and played to the end. ..... He improved.

Players will improve with Senderoff and his coaches IF they stick around and IF they are coachable. Now, lots don't stick around anywhere, and lots are prima donnas who don't take to coaching. Anthony Roberts improved, but thought the grass was greener elsewhere. It has been mentioned how things have changed, and I've said so myself many times. I admit I don't know, and can't know, if any of our past successful coaches would be winning more than Senderoff in today's mid-major basketball.
12-07-2021 06:57 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-07-2021 06:57 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 05:55 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 03:52 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

I came to this conclusion about 8 years ago. Even Geno developed players and managed games better. Christian was incredible. Sendy seemed like the right guy at the time, but ever since we have declined. I'm not basing this off last night. His career hangs on Jaylin Walker/Jimmy Hall coming out of nowhere and having a blowout weekend in 2017. Since then its been several 20-win seasons developed off weak scheduling.

Since you mentioned Jaylin Walker ... I would think the consensus on this board is he 'developed' over the course of his career. His main issue was his biggest strength was also his weakness ... and if you don't think Jaylen Avery improved from freshmen to senior I can't help you. ADR certainly improved his two years at Kent ... Now, did Mitch Peterson improve, not much, but he was still a productive player. Did Whittington improve ... not much, but he was a productive player as well. Did Jimmy Hall improve, certainly. Dev Manley certainly improved, Kris Brewer improved, Derek Jackson improved ... this kind of cherry-pickin about coaching -- be it football or basketball -- seems to dismiss the fact other teams have gotten better not to mention how much the game has changed over the 10 years RS has been the coach.

Eight years ago Kent and Akron were the top of the league ... Buffalo, Toledo, BG were mid-pack. Now look. Kent and Akron are mid-pack (upper middle) and observers seem to feel those other three teams have leap-frogged NE Ohio.

As someone mentioned earlier ... Senderoff may not be the best coach in the league, but (1) he has proven to be a consistent winner and (2) he has proven he can rise to the occasion with enough talent at hand.

Let's not forget, that JHall NCAA team had to beat a team with the leading scorer in the nation (thanks JAvery) in overtime, a Buffalo team looking for a NCAA Tournament repeat, an Ohio team that was favored and Akron which was not only favored, but had won the league by 2-3 games and had the MAC POY.

As the saying goes ... you're usually better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

And I'll add this ... for those who remember the last regulation sequence of the CMU OTime game, coming out of a timeout (!!!!) Kent got the ball to JHall on the block where he was mauled so bad he could barely get the ball above his head before it was knocked away. CMU missed a bustout 3-pointer to win. The So-Jr JHall likely would have gotten a tech complaining about the missed call. The Sr. JHall kept his composure and played to the end. ..... He improved.

Players will improve with Senderoff and his coaches IF they stick around and IF they are coachable. Now, lots don't stick around anywhere, and lots are prima donnas who don't take to coaching. Anthony Roberts improved, but thought the grass was greener elsewhere. It has been mentioned how things have changed, and I've said so myself many times. I admit I don't know, and can't know, if any of our past successful coaches would be winning more than Senderoff in today's mid-major basketball.

Man ... you nailed it about the prima donnas ... and that's on all levels from P5 on down to DIII. As for the past coaches, I think it's interesting to see how GFord's career has tracked in terms of wins and losses since Kent. Even Stan Heath's, although he is now back at a mid-major where it looks like he will be successful again. ... While who could have known it at the time, looking back Gary Waters was the poster MM coach at the start of this transfer mess and he could not adapt.

Look at Dambrot at Duquesne ... it's a different world for him now. Again, Senderoff may not be the best, but look at the coaches in the MAC he's outlasted, not just based on years of service, but winning record. Mid-Major basketball 2021-2022 and beyond is not for the faint of heart.
12-08-2021 07:17 AM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-08-2021 07:17 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 06:57 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 05:55 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 03:52 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  
(12-07-2021 11:40 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Losing at home by 15 to a solid mid major is just the way things are now guys. Its not the offense, its not the coach, its not the defense, its not recruiting, its not culture. None of those things matter anymore. Sheesh.

I came to this conclusion about 8 years ago. Even Geno developed players and managed games better. Christian was incredible. Sendy seemed like the right guy at the time, but ever since we have declined. I'm not basing this off last night. His career hangs on Jaylin Walker/Jimmy Hall coming out of nowhere and having a blowout weekend in 2017. Since then its been several 20-win seasons developed off weak scheduling.

Since you mentioned Jaylin Walker ... I would think the consensus on this board is he 'developed' over the course of his career. His main issue was his biggest strength was also his weakness ... and if you don't think Jaylen Avery improved from freshmen to senior I can't help you. ADR certainly improved his two years at Kent ... Now, did Mitch Peterson improve, not much, but he was still a productive player. Did Whittington improve ... not much, but he was a productive player as well. Did Jimmy Hall improve, certainly. Dev Manley certainly improved, Kris Brewer improved, Derek Jackson improved ... this kind of cherry-pickin about coaching -- be it football or basketball -- seems to dismiss the fact other teams have gotten better not to mention how much the game has changed over the 10 years RS has been the coach.

Eight years ago Kent and Akron were the top of the league ... Buffalo, Toledo, BG were mid-pack. Now look. Kent and Akron are mid-pack (upper middle) and observers seem to feel those other three teams have leap-frogged NE Ohio.

As someone mentioned earlier ... Senderoff may not be the best coach in the league, but (1) he has proven to be a consistent winner and (2) he has proven he can rise to the occasion with enough talent at hand.

Let's not forget, that JHall NCAA team had to beat a team with the leading scorer in the nation (thanks JAvery) in overtime, a Buffalo team looking for a NCAA Tournament repeat, an Ohio team that was favored and Akron which was not only favored, but had won the league by 2-3 games and had the MAC POY.

As the saying goes ... you're usually better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

And I'll add this ... for those who remember the last regulation sequence of the CMU OTime game, coming out of a timeout (!!!!) Kent got the ball to JHall on the block where he was mauled so bad he could barely get the ball above his head before it was knocked away. CMU missed a bustout 3-pointer to win. The So-Jr JHall likely would have gotten a tech complaining about the missed call. The Sr. JHall kept his composure and played to the end. ..... He improved.

Players will improve with Senderoff and his coaches IF they stick around and IF they are coachable. Now, lots don't stick around anywhere, and lots are prima donnas who don't take to coaching. Anthony Roberts improved, but thought the grass was greener elsewhere. It has been mentioned how things have changed, and I've said so myself many times. I admit I don't know, and can't know, if any of our past successful coaches would be winning more than Senderoff in today's mid-major basketball.

Man ... you nailed it about the prima donnas ... and that's on all levels from P5 on down to DIII. As for the past coaches, I think it's interesting to see how GFord's career has tracked in terms of wins and losses since Kent. Even Stan Heath's, although he is now back at a mid-major where it looks like he will be successful again. ... While who could have known it at the time, looking back Gary Waters was the poster MM coach at the start of this transfer mess and he could not adapt.

Look at Dambrot at Duquesne ... it's a different world for him now. Again, Senderoff may not be the best, but look at the coaches in the MAC he's outlasted, not just based on years of service, but winning record. Mid-Major basketball 2021-2022 and beyond is not for the faint of heart.

Easy to be the coach, when you’re not the coach .

Give me a break , let the season play out awhile longer
12-08-2021 10:53 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Towson @ Kent State
After reading Senderoff's comments in today's Record-Courier, I'm not terribly optimistic.
12-09-2021 01:46 PM
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RE: Towson @ Kent State
(12-09-2021 01:46 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  After reading Senderoff's comments in today's Record-Courier, I'm not terribly optimistic.

I'm going to watch this season through the lens of rebuilding. I'm very interested in these young players. Hopefully they won't get sucked into the transfer portal.
12-09-2021 03:57 PM
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