Penny plays favorites and doesn’t hold anyone accountable. His son and A lo shouldn’t even be playing and he put Bates in a role he isn’t ready for. Also the upperclassmen are just trying to get to the league. They don’t care enough to mentor anyone.

He just has no idea what he’s doing

(12-04-2021 07:10 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You can't improve until you figure out what is causing the problem-- Now that Penny has figured out what the problem is I'm sure this is going to correct itself pretty quick.

As soon as the upperclassmen start mentoring Bates this team will take off!

I'm glad Penny figured this out because I was thinking the problem was that Penny was playing his favorites who are not good enough to play at this level and that Penny subsitutes too often and never lets the players get in a rhythm. I had the problem completely mis-diagnosed.

Penny decided that the team was going to play through Bates and Duren. When they haven't played all that well it's the veterans fault. It seems like Penny helped cause that divide between veterans and rookies and keeps pushing it farther apart.

(12-06-2021 10:29 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(12-04-2021 07:10 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You can't improve until you figure out what is causing the problem-- Now that Penny has figured out what the problem is I'm sure this is going to correct itself pretty quick.

As soon as the upperclassmen start mentoring Bates this team will take off!

I'm glad Penny figured this out because I was thinking the problem was that Penny was playing his favorites who are not good enough to play at this level and that Penny subsitutes too often and never lets the players get in a rhythm. I had the problem completely mis-diagnosed.

Penny decided that the team was going to play through Bates and Duren. When they haven't played all that well it's the veterans fault. It seems like Penny helped cause that divide between veterans and rookies and keeps pushing it farther apart.

Penny on one side and LB on the other and nobody is listening to anyone. Civil War! Somebody call the negotiator! OR maybe they have?

I think it's climate change that is causing our issues.

None of this has anything to do with having a "dynamic" PG. None.

People acting like the PG is the only player allowed to assist or the only player allowed to initiate offense.

Michigan was as high as #2 in the polls and a #1 seed. Went to the E8 last year with a 5'7 PG who averaged single digits. Ohio State was a #2 seed with a PG who scored single digits.

Florida went to the E8 with 7 ppg 3.8 ast Chris Chiozza running the point.

In the NBA, the Bulls and Lakers won titles with PG's who were single digit scorers. Derek Fisher couldn't break down a shoebox let alone an NBA defender.

All of those teams needed their PG mostly to anchor the defense and to make sure the dynamic scorers on those teams got the ball to do dynamic stuff.

The main issue, with Memphis, is that Bates is not who we thought he was. He can't beat people off the dribble, he can't post, and he isn't a reliable enough outside shooter to make teams fear/respect that part of his game. And he hasn't really grasped the defense side of things.

Memphis was considered a fringe top 30 team by most folks in mid-July. When Duren signed, Memphis became a top 20 team and the signing of Bates is what propelled Memphis into the upper echelon.

This is an NBA scout summation:

Emoni Bates is a special NBA draft prospect, potentially a generational talent, who had committed to Michigan State before opening up his recruitment and now committing to Memphis.

Bates has a special combination of size, natural talent and work ethic that makes him an elite level prospect and a potential top 2 or 3 pick. He’s a fierce competitor with a will to win and will to be great. He’s got the fire that it takes to turn natural talent into transcendent talent.

His offensive package is elite for any player, let alone a high school underclassman. Bates has the look of a young Kevin Durant (he’s got a bit less length but just as much skill and a more dominant game than KD had in high school).

He’s got the complete package including the ability to light it up from downtown, take it to the hoop and finish above the rim and warp the defense, opening up space for his teammates.

Bates is a really good ball handler and is basically a 6-8 guard. He can beat his man one on one with his quick first step and he’s a creative finisher in the lane or with his smooth mid range game.

Although he’s not the most powerful athlete and is still very skinny, he’s got wiry strength and takes it hard to the rim. He’s also not a huge wingspan guy but has more than enough size, strength and length to warrant all of the hype that comes his way.

That is what Memphis expected on the offensive end. AND--if Bates were doing that, I'd imagine Memphis would be 8-0 and a top five team.

It's not his FAULT--it's just what people's expectations and how reality changes expectations.

(12-06-2021 11:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  None of this has anything to do with having a "dynamic" PG. None.

People acting like the PG is the only player allowed to assist or the only player allowed to initiate offense.

Michigan was as high as #2 in the polls and a #1 seed. Went to the E8 last year with a 5'7 PG who averaged single digits. Ohio State was a #2 seed with a PG who scored single digits.

Florida went to the E8 with 7 ppg 3.8 ast Chris Chiozza running the point.

In the NBA, the Bulls and Lakers won titles with PG's who were single digit scorers. Derek Fisher couldn't break down a shoebox let alone an NBA defender.

All of those teams needed their PG most anchor the defense and to make sure the dynamic scorers on those teams got the ball to do dynamic stuff.

The main issue, with Memphis, is that Bates is not who we thought he was. He can't beat people off the dribble, he can't post, and he isn't a reliable enough outside shooter to make teams fear/respect that part of his game. And he hasn't really grasped the defense side of things.

Memphis was considered a fringe top 30 team by most folks in mid-July. When Duren signed, Memphis became a top 20 team and the signing of Bates is what propelled Memphis into the upper echelon.

This is an NBA scout summation:

Emoni Bates is a special NBA draft prospect, potentially a generational talent, who had committed to Michigan State before opening up his recruitment and now committing to Memphis.

Bates has a special combination of size, natural talent and work ethic that makes him an elite level prospect and a potential top 2 or 3 pick. He’s a fierce competitor with a will to win and will to be great. He’s got the fire that it takes to turn natural talent into transcendent talent.

His offensive package is elite for any player, let alone a high school underclassman. Bates has the look of a young Kevin Durant (he’s got a bit less length but just as much skill and a more dominant game than KD had in high school).

He’s got the complete package including the ability to light it up from downtown, take it to the hoop and finish above the rim and warp the defense, opening up space for his teammates.

Bates is a really good ball handler and is basically a 6-8 guard. He can beat his man one on one with his quick first step and he’s a creative finisher in the lane or with his smooth mid range game.

Although he’s not the most powerful athlete and is still very skinny, he’s got wiry strength and takes it hard to the rim. He’s also not a huge wingspan guy but has more than enough size, strength and length to warrant all of the hype that comes his way.

That is what Memphis expected on the offensive end. AMD--if Bates were doing that, I'd imagine Memphis would be 8-0 and a top five team.

It's not his FAULT--it's just what people's expectations and how reality changes expectations.

That is 1,000% correct, on all points. And, why you don't prop up player before he steps on campus. If he's the real deal, he'll earn it and the repsect of his teammates.

Btw...this point applies to every player AND coach.

(12-06-2021 11:24 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 11:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  None of this has anything to do with having a "dynamic" PG. None.

People acting like the PG is the only player allowed to assist or the only player allowed to initiate offense.

Michigan was as high as #2 in the polls and a #1 seed. Went to the E8 last year with a 5'7 PG who averaged single digits. Ohio State was a #2 seed with a PG who scored single digits.

Florida went to the E8 with 7 ppg 3.8 ast Chris Chiozza running the point.

In the NBA, the Bulls and Lakers won titles with PG's who were single digit scorers. Derek Fisher couldn't break down a shoebox let alone an NBA defender.

All of those teams needed their PG most anchor the defense and to make sure the dynamic scorers on those teams got the ball to do dynamic stuff.

The main issue, with Memphis, is that Bates is not who we thought he was. He can't beat people off the dribble, he can't post, and he isn't a reliable enough outside shooter to make teams fear/respect that part of his game. And he hasn't really grasped the defense side of things.

Memphis was considered a fringe top 30 team by most folks in mid-July. When Duren signed, Memphis became a top 20 team and the signing of Bates is what propelled Memphis into the upper echelon.

This is an NBA scout summation:

Emoni Bates is a special NBA draft prospect, potentially a generational talent, who had committed to Michigan State before opening up his recruitment and now committing to Memphis.

Bates has a special combination of size, natural talent and work ethic that makes him an elite level prospect and a potential top 2 or 3 pick. He’s a fierce competitor with a will to win and will to be great. He’s got the fire that it takes to turn natural talent into transcendent talent.

His offensive package is elite for any player, let alone a high school underclassman. Bates has the look of a young Kevin Durant (he’s got a bit less length but just as much skill and a more dominant game than KD had in high school).

He’s got the complete package including the ability to light it up from downtown, take it to the hoop and finish above the rim and warp the defense, opening up space for his teammates.

Bates is a really good ball handler and is basically a 6-8 guard. He can beat his man one on one with his quick first step and he’s a creative finisher in the lane or with his smooth mid range game.

Although he’s not the most powerful athlete and is still very skinny, he’s got wiry strength and takes it hard to the rim. He’s also not a huge wingspan guy but has more than enough size, strength and length to warrant all of the hype that comes his way.

That is what Memphis expected on the offensive end. AMD--if Bates were doing that, I'd imagine Memphis would be 8-0 and a top five team.

It's not his FAULT--it's just what people's expectations and how reality changes expectations.

That is 1,000% correct, on all points. And, why you don't prop up player before he steps on campus. If he's the real deal, he'll earn it and the repsect of his teammates.

Btw...this point applies to every player AND coach.

Agreed. FWIW, I was impressed with Bates supposedly telling Penny he needs to come off the bench & not start prior to the OM game. I don't think he's trying to push his way into star role just yet - I think he's willing to take a step back & learn.
However, Penny seems to be pushing him out there to see how he performs, & the older players aren't helping.

Told You So!-- Penny has figured this out and " THE WORST IS OVER! "

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXG94fdJPwb/