for offense that is...?

Please stop playing street AAU style ball:
- Please have a O-game plan
- teach these kids basic offense and plays (it was beautiful to see I state execute that with grit and grind
- Please define roles and responsibilities
- if O is struggling, TAKE A TO! and re-group (don't let them get down more than 4-6 points)
- continute to coach these kids once they come to the bench or during TO's
- Bates is not a PG. Please figure out who would distrubute the ball and run the O-game plan
- Too many 1:1 plays trying to look pretty instead of playing basic basket ball. So many unforced turnovers, it was nauseating to watch.

I want to understand--do we even have a plan for O?

Kudos to Iowa state, but last night game was the worst offensive effor that I have seen from my 30+ years of watching tiger basketball.

I'm furious (rather more disappinted, as we are uch better team) with all these loaded recuits and coaches, our boys are struggling to play a decent offense. All team has poor shooting night, but our problem was not shooting, we couldn't run an offense with turning the ball over; and settle for too many 1:1 plays; no game plan on offense and it gotten worse. Pennny should own uop to this poor coaching, planning and execution.

Listen to Penny postgame interview if you want a real facepalm.

(11-27-2021 11:34 AM)Dak10 Wrote:  Listen to Penny postgame interview if you want a real facepalm.

I looked for it, couldn't find a link on Youtube. Can you share the link please?

https://youtu.be/huX1B15qW_A

You’ll get to hear him talk about 1vs1 ball as our problem for over ten minutes. Well, Penny, that’s been a problem since you started coaching. What are you doing about it? At least one person on the bench can run an offense, let him run it. At least I assume Larry knows how to run an offense.

Alo dribble pass halfcourt, pass to a big out top, refuse to get the ball back when the big has nowhere to go (he waved off Malcolm when malcolm looked to give the ball back to Alo. Result, malcolm then decided to drive the ball leading to a CHARGE), camps at the 3pnt line and watches the other 4 try and create offense.

A pg who takes NO perimeter shots is exactly what the defense wants. He's NO threat therefore teams don't defend him and uses that defender to harass the other players w/quick doubles. His game has not improved in ANY areas since high school.

In the 2nd half, Duren got a quick double, saw Alo all alone in the corner but knew he couldn't shoot so Duren forced the pass back out top to a shooter where the defense was waiting. Turnover. Teams won't guard Alo, ever until he starts TAKING & making perimeter shots. Can't just hide on offensive end..

With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

I agree we can't play Lomax. We do appear to be running sets to me, I see some wing action and hand offs and screens that generated a few open looks. Lomax just kills the offense by standing out there directing things for 15 seconds and then disappearing.

(11-27-2021 12:34 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I agree we can't play Lomax. We do appear to be running sets to me, I see some wing action and hand offs and screens that generated a few open looks. Lomax just kills the offense by standing out there directing things for 15 seconds and then disappearing.

Agree. And the offense has to keep moving - there were plays were there was zero rotation last night. Reminded me of the Pastner years where everyone would just stand still. Nothing drives me crazier than people standing around on offense.

We need a true PG so badly.

(11-27-2021 12:39 PM)TGTiger Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:34 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I agree we can't play Lomax. We do appear to be running sets to me, I see some wing action and hand offs and screens that generated a few open looks. Lomax just kills the offense by standing out there directing things for 15 seconds and then disappearing.

Agree. And the offense has to keep moving - there were plays were there was zero rotation last night. Reminded me of the Pastner years where everyone would just stand still. Nothing drives me crazier than people standing around on offense.

We need a true PG so badly.

it's not so much a PG as somebody who can get into the middle of the defense and then cause it to collapse and rotate and start to break down. Lomax and Tyler aren't that guy. I suspect that is what the staff is thinking by trying to use Bates. Once we get the defense scrambling we'll have closeouts we can attack and open shots and whole thing opens up. Our offense dies on the vine because lomax doesn't get into the middle or when he does he's wild and out of control.

The other option would be to try to play out of the paint through Duren and Williams and make the defense collapse there. Our main issue is we haven't had that dynamic scorer who demands extra defensive attention really since Jeremiah Martin.

Pastner's offenses were exquisitely bad because almost all of the action were pin down screens where the players would then come sprinting up towards the ball and all their momentum was going away from the basket. At least thats what I remember seeing over and over as I lost my mind.

Penny's offensive plan is ok....its his rotations that are destroying what he is trying to do.

The NBA style he wants to run needs floor spacers...guys who are threats to knock down multiple 3pt shots.

He constantly plays lineups with no 3pt threats on the floor. When he does defenses just play the drives they know are coming. Duren has no space to work and the other guys drives into the paint result in turnovers and charges.

He has 3 maybe 4 decent 3pt threats:
Nolley
Harris
Lester
Jayden is the maybe.

Bates seems to be a decent 3pt shooter but he wants him running the offense and playmaking.

For his style of offense to work he needs two 3pt threats on the floor at all times. Yet he keeps running lineups with none on the floor. Alo and Timberlake should NEVER play together. Dandridge and Duren should NEVER play together.

The lineups with guys who can ONLY score at the rim must stop.

If he is insistent on running this offense his rotations must fit what he is trying to run.

(11-27-2021 12:32 PM)howboutthemtigers Wrote:  With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

If I remember correctly, Boogie was asked about this last year and he talked they practiced defense in practice way more than offense and it shows....

(11-27-2021 12:32 PM)howboutthemtigers Wrote:  With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

(11-27-2021 01:14 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:32 PM)howboutthemtigers Wrote:  With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

If I remember correctly, Boogie was asked about this last year and he talked they practiced defense in practice way more than offense and it shows....

Defense is easy to coach and easy to comprehend. Maybe this has something to do with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(11-27-2021 11:42 AM)Dak10 Wrote:  https://youtu.be/huX1B15qW_A

You’ll get to hear him talk about 1vs1 ball as our problem for over ten minutes. Well, Penny, that’s been a problem since you started coaching. What are you doing about it? At least one person on the bench can run an offense, let him run it. At least I assume Larry knows how to run an offense.

At least he's taking ownership.

(11-27-2021 04:23 PM)T-County Tiger Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 01:14 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:32 PM)howboutthemtigers Wrote:  With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

If I remember correctly, Boogie was asked about this last year and he talked they practiced defense in practice way more than offense and it shows....

Defense is easy to coach and easy to comprehend. Maybe this has something to do with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If its easy as you say, that's even more reason to spend MORE time coaching the offense and installing sets.... the defense/hustle should come easy.

Team who scores the most wins games. NOT practicing real offense and relying on hero ball at the end of shot clock don't win meaningful games. Recipe for misusing talent....

(11-27-2021 07:37 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 04:23 PM)T-County Tiger Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 01:14 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:32 PM)howboutthemtigers Wrote:  With all the experience on the bench, it blows me away that there is no sign that these players have ever practiced together. I don’t mean that our office needs some work or looks kind of sloppy at times. It is literally nonexistent! Usually the first person that brings the ball across half-court just jacks up a shot from wherever he wants to. But if not, he stands there dribbling in one spot while the other four player stand in one spot looking at them. This has been the offense since Penny started. We’re in year four with a loaded roster and coaching staff and we still don’t understand basic basketball.

If I remember correctly, Boogie was asked about this last year and he talked they practiced defense in practice way more than offense and it shows....

Defense is easy to coach and easy to comprehend. Maybe this has something to do with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If its easy as you say, that's even more reason to spend MORE time coaching the offense and installing sets.... the defense/hustle should come easy.

Team who scores the most wins games. NOT practicing real offense and relying on hero ball at the end of shot clock don't win meaningful games. Recipe for misusing talent....

Why re-post that clown, and why should any Tigers fan care what he says? He's a notorious Tigers troll. Posts nothing in good times, and comes hard in bad times. Come to think of it...he is likely a poster in this thread.

(11-27-2021 12:47 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Penny's offensive plan is ok....its his rotations that are destroying what he is trying to do.

The NBA style he wants to run needs floor spacers...guys who are threats to knock down multiple 3pt shots.

He constantly plays lineups with no 3pt threats on the floor. When he does defenses just play the drives they know are coming. Duren has no space to work and the other guys drives into the paint result in turnovers and charges.

He has 3 maybe 4 decent 3pt threats:
Nolley
Harris
Lester
Jayden is the maybe.

Bates seems to be a decent 3pt shooter but he wants him running the offense and playmaking.

For his style of offense to work he needs two 3pt threats on the floor at all times. Yet he keeps running lineups with none on the floor. Alo and Timberlake should NEVER play together. Dandridge and Duren should NEVER play together.

The lineups with guys who can ONLY score at the rim must stop.

If he is insistent on running this offense his rotations must fit what he is trying to run.

Thanks for this, I was trying to figure out what exactly I was seeing, this explains most of it. Also, I would play whole lines of experienced players vs. newbies (like we did when the game was out of reach). There are enough issues with Bates wanting to play 1 and 1 with Duren.

(11-27-2021 12:45 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:39 PM)TGTiger Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:34 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I agree we can't play Lomax. We do appear to be running sets to me, I see some wing action and hand offs and screens that generated a few open looks. Lomax just kills the offense by standing out there directing things for 15 seconds and then disappearing.

Agree. And the offense has to keep moving - there were plays were there was zero rotation last night. Reminded me of the Pastner years where everyone would just stand still. Nothing drives me crazier than people standing around on offense.

We need a true PG so badly.

it's not so much a PG as somebody who can get into the middle of the defense and then cause it to collapse and rotate and start to break down. Lomax and Tyler aren't that guy. I suspect that is what the staff is thinking by trying to use Bates. Once we get the defense scrambling we'll have closeouts we can attack and open shots and whole thing opens up. Our offense dies on the vine because lomax doesn't get into the middle or when he does he's wild and out of control.

The other option would be to try to play out of the paint through Duren and Williams and make the defense collapse there. Our main issue is we haven't had that dynamic scorer who demands extra defensive attention really since Jeremiah Martin.

Pastner's offenses were exquisitely bad because almost all of the action were pin down screens where the players would then come sprinting up towards the ball and all their momentum was going away from the basket. At least thats what I remember seeing over and over as I lost my mind.

I think Tyler has a better chance at doing something useful than Alo. It’s gonna require Tyler taking more shots than normal but if he can get separation from his man off the initial pick them for a second or two he’s open at the free throw line for an easy 15 footer. If he knocks down a couple of those then the defense has to cheat up every time he comes off the pick, that or the big has to quickly switch on to Tyler leaving a guy open rolling to the rim.

Tyler is small and quick enough to beat a big off the dribbling forcing someone to come off their man to pick him up which leaves someone open. Either way the starting pg needs to be someone who can penetrate and be a credible threat to score once he gets to the middle of the defense.

Alo won’t shoot the ball even tho he’s a good free throw shooter you would think a 15 footer would be in his comfort zone. Earl isn’t a pg he can break his man down and get to the rim but he’s looking to draw a foul or score not find his teammates.

To me Memphis only has 4 options at pg

Alo, Tyler, Lester, and Jayden. I think Lester and Jayden should be in consideration cause they will simply just do what they are asked to do with little deviation.

(11-29-2021 11:02 AM)Bill83 Wrote:  

(11-27-2021 12:47 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Penny's offensive plan is ok....its his rotations that are destroying what he is trying to do.

The NBA style he wants to run needs floor spacers...guys who are threats to knock down multiple 3pt shots.

He constantly plays lineups with no 3pt threats on the floor. When he does defenses just play the drives they know are coming. Duren has no space to work and the other guys drives into the paint result in turnovers and charges.

He has 3 maybe 4 decent 3pt threats:
Nolley
Harris
Lester
Jayden is the maybe.

Bates seems to be a decent 3pt shooter but he wants him running the offense and playmaking.

For his style of offense to work he needs two 3pt threats on the floor at all times. Yet he keeps running lineups with none on the floor. Alo and Timberlake should NEVER play together. Dandridge and Duren should NEVER play together.

The lineups with guys who can ONLY score at the rim must stop.

If he is insistent on running this offense his rotations must fit what he is trying to run.

Thanks for this, I was trying to figure out what exactly I was seeing, this explains most of it. Also, I would play whole lines of experienced players vs. newbies (like we did when the game was out of reach). There are enough issues with Bates wanting to play 1 and 1 with Duren.

There was a play in the Iowa State game that ended at the 13:52 mark of the first half....

On the floor were ALO, Malcolm, Earl Timberlake, Josh Minott, and Jayden Hardaway.

Alo and Malcolm are in pick and roll on the wing the defending big steps out so alo sends a pocket pass to Malcolm at the top of the circle, who proceeds to drive into a charge with 4 defenders in the lane while Minott and Timberlake were setting screens for Hardaway to pop out to the opposite corner.

The play was sound but you are asking Malcolm Dandridge to make the play. OF COURSE it will end in a Turnover.

When Malcolm catches the pass there SIX players in the lane...

was Malcolm wrong for driving in there? Hell Yeah!

Wasnt it even more stupid that the coach put him in that position?

There are better lineups to run that play.

Looking forward
We'll have two Dudes next yr who can
BUST THE TREY BALL