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What has happened to Texas?
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #21
RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 09:45 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 09:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Sark, on the other hand, strikes me as a kind of offensive technician, the guy who can be an excellent OC but is not head coach material.

The Washington job was a total reclamation project. Most people don't remember that the Huskies were 12-47 (including 0-12 in 2008) in the 5 seasons before Sarkisian took over in 2009.

In his 5 years there, Washington was 35-29, with 4 bowls. He set the stage for Chris Petersen's success there.

I think that the Texas job may be a bit of a rebuild (not like Washington, of course), and that success may be delayed until 2023.

The Texas job is in no way a rebuild, but it will be pitched that way. Texas has had a top 10 recruiting class for the past 4 out of 5 years, I believe. There is a lot of talent on the roster, even if it's not in all the right places for Sark's systems. Yes, they lost some good talent to the transfer portal, but not nearly enough to bring them down to the level they're playing at. For reference both of the QBs who are said to be lacking were 4 stars coming out of high school. Thompson had a breakout game in the Alamo Bowl last year. As we tend to lament around here, even 4 star players need to be developed. There has been very little development for the horns this year. That's directly on Sark and staff.

In the long run, Sark may succeed. Herman most certainly would have succeeded too had he been able to beat OU and win the conference. Unfortunately, the expectations for the program way exceed the ability of the coaching, so don't hold your breath until the horns can finally lure Saban away from Bama.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2021 03:15 PM by markbrindley.)
11-22-2021 03:08 PM
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RiceFootball2K5 Offline
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
The SEC schools have been printing money the last decade while Texas has been puttering around losing games. Texas has been stuck in a spiral of coaching turnover (which begets roster turnover) of their own making. Meanwhile they have been playing teams their fan base looks down upon in a second tier league. Their gameday atmosphere is subpar as the arrogant Texas fans sit on their hands or stay home (or go to music festivals or Formula One whatever other million things are going on in Austin that particular Saturday). And they no longer hold the recruiting edge they once did in Texas, for many different reasons.

The result of all this is that the SEC has caught up, and in many ways passed, Texas. Texas is no longer, as they loved to refer to themselves, "The Joneses." IMO they are in no way ready for what they are about to get into with their SEC move. Those schools all have plenty of money too, and have been much more committed to doing what it takes to win at the high level they expect (including pay top dollar for coaches and recruits alike).
11-22-2021 05:02 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:02 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  The SEC schools have been printing money the last decade while Texas has been puttering around losing games. Texas has been stuck in a spiral of coaching turnover (which begets roster turnover) of their own making. Meanwhile they have been playing teams their fan base looks down upon in a second tier league. Their gameday atmosphere is subpar as the arrogant Texas fans sit on their hands or stay home (or go to music festivals or Formula One whatever other million things are going on in Austin that particular Saturday). And they no longer hold the recruiting edge they once did in Texas, for many different reasons.

The result of all this is that the SEC has caught up, and in many ways passed, Texas. Texas is no longer, as they loved to refer to themselves, "The Joneses." IMO they are in no way ready for what they are about to get into with their SEC move. Those schools all have plenty of money too, and have been much more committed to doing what it takes to win at the high level they expect (including pay top dollar for coaches and recruits alike).

Agree. I think the over under for average SEC wins by the whorns over the next 10 years is about 4. They just don't know what they are getting into (this is a league that fires national champs coaches in a heartbeat). And all of what has happened to them (and true for Rice also) is their own making, particularly being in a second tier league. So sad.....
11-22-2021 05:21 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 03:08 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 09:45 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 09:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Sark, on the other hand, strikes me as a kind of offensive technician, the guy who can be an excellent OC but is not head coach material.

The Washington job was a total reclamation project. Most people don't remember that the Huskies were 12-47 (including 0-12 in 2008) in the 5 seasons before Sarkisian took over in 2009.

In his 5 years there, Washington was 35-29, with 4 bowls. He set the stage for Chris Petersen's success there.

I think that the Texas job may be a bit of a rebuild (not like Washington, of course), and that success may be delayed until 2023.

The Texas job is in no way a rebuild, but it will be pitched that way. Texas has had a top 10 recruiting class for the past 4 out of 5 years, I believe. There is a lot of talent on the roster, even if it's not in all the right places for Sark's systems. Yes, they lost some good talent to the transfer portal, but not nearly enough to bring them down to the level they're playing at. For reference both of the QBs who are said to be lacking were 4 stars coming out of high school. Thompson had a breakout game in the Alamo Bowl last year. As we tend to lament around here, even 4 star players need to be developed. There has been very little development for the horns this year. That's directly on Sark and staff.

In the long run, Sark may succeed. Herman most certainly would have succeeded too had he been able to beat OU and win the conference. Unfortunately, the expectations for the program way exceed the ability of the coaching, so don't hold your breath until the horns can finally lure Saban away from Bama.

The UT offensive line has been suspect for a number of years.

Other than Cosmi (sp?) '21, I don't' recall a UT o-lineman being drafted the last 4 years.

Is that development or recruiting or a little of both? Seems like size + speed is more of a recruiting issue.
11-22-2021 05:26 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: What has happened to Texas?
Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2021 05:29 PM by westsidewolf1989.)
11-22-2021 05:27 PM
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texowl2 Offline
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:26 PM)ausowl Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:08 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 09:45 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 09:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Sark, on the other hand, strikes me as a kind of offensive technician, the guy who can be an excellent OC but is not head coach material.

The Washington job was a total reclamation project. Most people don't remember that the Huskies were 12-47 (including 0-12 in 2008) in the 5 seasons before Sarkisian took over in 2009.

In his 5 years there, Washington was 35-29, with 4 bowls. He set the stage for Chris Petersen's success there.

I think that the Texas job may be a bit of a rebuild (not like Washington, of course), and that success may be delayed until 2023.

The Texas job is in no way a rebuild, but it will be pitched that way. Texas has had a top 10 recruiting class for the past 4 out of 5 years, I believe. There is a lot of talent on the roster, even if it's not in all the right places for Sark's systems. Yes, they lost some good talent to the transfer portal, but not nearly enough to bring them down to the level they're playing at. For reference both of the QBs who are said to be lacking were 4 stars coming out of high school. Thompson had a breakout game in the Alamo Bowl last year. As we tend to lament around here, even 4 star players need to be developed. There has been very little development for the horns this year. That's directly on Sark and staff.

In the long run, Sark may succeed. Herman most certainly would have succeeded too had he been able to beat OU and win the conference. Unfortunately, the expectations for the program way exceed the ability of the coaching, so don't hold your breath until the horns can finally lure Saban away from Bama.

The UT offensive line has been suspect for a number of years.

Other than Cosmi (sp?) '21, I don't' recall a UT o-lineman being drafted the last 4 years.

Is that development or recruiting or a little of both? Seems like size + speed is more of a recruiting issue.

Connor Williams starts for Jerry's team in Arlington-like the first lineman drafted (17) from tu in some crazy number of years (10, I think).
11-22-2021 05:42 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:27 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.

I never understood why they ran Akers out on a rail-he was one punt muff and Joe Montana away from winning two national championships. But his teams were "too boring"....
11-22-2021 05:50 PM
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #28
What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:27 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.


This is the reality that no Texas fan wants to admit. Texas has only occasionally been elite on the field. They’re NCs and the money they bring in as an athletic department hide an inconsistent program historically in comparison to Bama and a few others.


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11-22-2021 05:57 PM
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Post: #29
What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:02 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  The SEC schools have been printing money the last decade while Texas has been puttering around losing games. Texas has been stuck in a spiral of coaching turnover (which begets roster turnover) of their own making. Meanwhile they have been playing teams their fan base looks down upon in a second tier league. Their gameday atmosphere is subpar as the arrogant Texas fans sit on their hands or stay home (or go to music festivals or Formula One whatever other million things are going on in Austin that particular Saturday). And they no longer hold the recruiting edge they once did in Texas, for many different reasons.

The result of all this is that the SEC has caught up, and in many ways passed, Texas. Texas is no longer, as they loved to refer to themselves, "The Joneses." IMO they are in no way ready for what they are about to get into with their SEC move. Those schools all have plenty of money too, and have been much more committed to doing what it takes to win at the high level they expect (including pay top dollar for coaches and recruits alike).


Texas is the highest earning and most profitable athletic department in the NCAA and has been for years. There is definitely no downfall on that front.


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11-22-2021 06:01 PM
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #30
What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:50 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:27 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.

I never understood why they ran Akers out on a rail-he was one punt muff and Joe Montana away from winning two national championships. But his teams were "too boring"....


Akers unfortunate mistake was timing. He followed Royal and wasn’t the first choice of all who held the purse at the time.


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11-22-2021 06:10 PM
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Post: #31
RE: What has happened to Texas?
I think urban planning has really messed up UT's campus. It's just a mess. The stadium is huge but it's buried within mazes of other buildings, and there really aren't many places to tailgate around the stadium. They add new features to the stadium to try to modernize it, but they're stuck with a lot of 1940's-1960's elements that they just can't get rid of. They're building a huge new basketball arena just to the north of Frank Erwin, and quite honestly, they need to start over with their football stadium too.

But barring a new site out in the suburbs, is there any place in Austin even close to the campus where they could build a 100,000 seat stadium? In a lot of ways, UT is like a number of massive campuses in big cities that play D1 football in a P5 campus (I realize Austin isn't as populated as Los Angeles or Chicago, but UCLA, USC, Northwestern and maybe Vanderbilt too). They're just land-locked and stuck. I can't feel sorry for them though. They should have planned ahead 30-40 years ago.
11-22-2021 06:16 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 05:57 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:27 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.


This is the reality that no Texas fan wants to admit. Texas has only occasionally been elite on the field. They’re NCs and the money they bring in as an athletic department hide an inconsistent program historically in comparison to Bama and a few others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To nitpick, I'd actually Texas is a pretty consistently above average program, but I agree with the point you're making. Here's the number of seasons Texas has won each # of games. 75% of the seasons they've won six or more games and 80% of seasons have seen them notch between 5 and 10 wins.

13 games - 2
12 games - 1
11 games - 7
10 games - 14
9 games - 16
8 games - 16
7 games - 18
6 games - 15
5 games - 19
4 games - 8
3 games - 0
2 games - 2
1 game - 2

Compare that to Oklahoma in 113 seasons. Oklahoma has a whopping 41 double-digit seasons (compared to Texas' 24), but they've had slightly more crappy seasons (4 or less wins by my non-scientific definition) than Texas (17 to 12), so they've had a touch more performance variance overall.

13 games - 1
12 games - 8
11 games - 17
10 games - 15
9 games - 8
8 games - 11
7 games - 9
6 games - 15
5 games - 12
4 games - 6
3 games - 9
2 games - 2
11-22-2021 06:26 PM
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #33
What has happened to Texas?
(11-22-2021 06:26 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:57 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:27 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Texas' expectations of winning 10 games every year are just not realistic. This is their 120th season of football and they have won more than 9 games in exactly 1 out of every 5 seasons. That's it. Of those 24 seasons with 10 or more wins, here is the breakdown by coach:

9 - Mack Brown
7 - Darrell Royal
3 - Fred Akers
1 - Tom Herman
1- John Mackovic
1- David McWilliams
1 - Blair Cherry
1 - Dana Bible

Texas is a 7-3 ballclub on average over 120 years. Not 10-0, not 9-1, but 7-3. If you take that average from 1945 (first season of 10 wins) they are 8-3. Texas had no idea how good they had it with Mack Brown until it was too late. Now they'll be a bottom-feeder in the SEC West or whatever pod they're in.


This is the reality that no Texas fan wants to admit. Texas has only occasionally been elite on the field. They’re NCs and the money they bring in as an athletic department hide an inconsistent program historically in comparison to Bama and a few others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To nitpick, I'd actually Texas is a pretty consistently above average program, but I agree with the point you're making. Here's the number of seasons Texas has won each # of games. 75% of the seasons they've won six or more games and 80% of seasons have seen them notch between 5 and 10 wins.

13 games - 2
12 games - 1
11 games - 7
10 games - 14
9 games - 16
8 games - 16
7 games - 18
6 games - 15
5 games - 19
4 games - 8
3 games - 0
2 games - 2
1 game - 2

Compare that to Oklahoma in 113 seasons. Oklahoma has a whopping 41 double-digit seasons (compared to Texas' 24), but they've had slightly more crappy seasons (4 or less wins by my non-scientific definition) than Texas (17 to 12), so they've had a touch more performance variance overall.

13 games - 1
12 games - 8
11 games - 17
10 games - 15
9 games - 8
8 games - 11
7 games - 9
6 games - 15
5 games - 12
4 games - 6
3 games - 9
2 games - 2


Above average, absolutely. Elite, like the expectations on the 40 acres, not so much. In other words, they have consistently been top 20, but not top 5. The fan base has expectations of top 4 every year which does not meet the history based reality.


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11-22-2021 06:43 PM
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owl40 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: What has happened to Texas?
Sark was a risky hire. I remember when it was announced thinking that given his past.

Lots of rumors about his alcohol issues. I had an influential friend of mine at USC talk about Sark having a cooler in coaches locker room during games and would drink before the game and openly in front of other coaches during halftime adjustments and have a 'full time' cooler in the trunk of his car. Plenty of other juicy stories on the internet but Saban took a chance on him to rehabilitate his image and refocus him on the game. That seemed to work.

Sure he has plenty of demons and this season he has endured is probably making it even more difficult to tame them. I'm cheering for him but hard to see this being right situation for him.

I heard a stat that P5 programs are paying nearly $50M this year in buyouts of coaches contracts. Wonder what Horns will do?
11-22-2021 08:19 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
article in texas monthly-lot of ouch there

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entert...7-53257259
11-24-2021 12:18 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-24-2021 12:18 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  article in texas monthly-lot of ouch there

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entert...7-53257259

Makes 58-0 look even worse.
11-24-2021 12:38 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-24-2021 12:38 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Makes 58-0 look even worse.

I think 57-56 already took care of that.
11-24-2021 01:36 PM
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Texasowl Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What has happened to Texas?
He needs to clean house and find players who want to play and get rid of the rest. Fire the quarterback coach too.
11-24-2021 11:37 PM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
11-26-2021 09:58 AM
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RE: What has happened to Texas?
(11-26-2021 09:58 AM)grol Wrote:  UT giving athletes $6000 / year

This ought to help the sense of entitlement for the student athletes. Do they still get to keep the "ill-gotten gains" too?
11-26-2021 09:04 PM
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