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Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 03:19 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 02:11 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 10:40 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  … two short years ago, because it certainly does not look like it.
Ryan has managed to turn us into a mediocre football program in just his 2nd year. Impressive.

He has made mistakes but there was nothing wrong with the coaching against Houston. The gameplan was solid, the play calling was fine and the kids competed like crazy. What was much more worrisome was the huge talent gap between us and Houston. In 2019, we were better than Cincinnati is this year, and better than Houston last week.

It isn't possible that that we have anyone with the talent of Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Gainwell or Coxie on the roster, and Silverfield and the entire staff aren't able to develop them. It is obvious that we have a lot less talent than we did in 2019. Norvell and Fuente couldn't do much better with what we have, and Silverfield wouldn't be 5-5 with the 2019 roster.

The most confusing part is that we have been recruiting at our highest sustained level ever, over the last 4 years; and yet there isn't anyone emerging as anywhere close to the talent that we had during Norvell's tenure. Either we were super lucky before (which is highly possible) and we are highly unlucky now (also possible).

Besides Austin and Dykes, I would say that the only above average players on offense are Ivory and I think Lewis is going to continue to get better. It is very weird watching us play these days.

I agree, Norvell and RS ( he help recruit for NOrvell) found the diamonds in the rough. rankings are a crap shoot sometimes. TBH, finding Parish a 4* recruit is mind boggling.

GUSNOB- Waiting for data to back up your DS.

We had an unusual amount of walk-ons turn into stars didn't we? Gainewell, Taylor, Pollard maybe?
11-22-2021 05:44 PM
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TigersRuleAll Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 05:44 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:19 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 02:11 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 10:40 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  … two short years ago, because it certainly does not look like it.
Ryan has managed to turn us into a mediocre football program in just his 2nd year. Impressive.

He has made mistakes but there was nothing wrong with the coaching against Houston. The gameplan was solid, the play calling was fine and the kids competed like crazy. What was much more worrisome was the huge talent gap between us and Houston. In 2019, we were better than Cincinnati is this year, and better than Houston last week.

It isn't possible that that we have anyone with the talent of Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Gainwell or Coxie on the roster, and Silverfield and the entire staff aren't able to develop them. It is obvious that we have a lot less talent than we did in 2019. Norvell and Fuente couldn't do much better with what we have, and Silverfield wouldn't be 5-5 with the 2019 roster.

The most confusing part is that we have been recruiting at our highest sustained level ever, over the last 4 years; and yet there isn't anyone emerging as anywhere close to the talent that we had during Norvell's tenure. Either we were super lucky before (which is highly possible) and we are highly unlucky now (also possible).

Besides Austin and Dykes, I would say that the only above average players on offense are Ivory and I think Lewis is going to continue to get better. It is very weird watching us play these days.

I agree, Norvell and RS ( he help recruit for NOrvell) found the diamonds in the rough. rankings are a crap shoot sometimes. TBH, finding Parish a 4* recruit is mind boggling.

GUSNOB- Waiting for data to back up your DS.

We had an unusual amount of walk-ons turn into stars didn't we? Gainewell, Taylor, Pollard maybe?

None of those were walk ons.
11-22-2021 05:50 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 03:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Under Norvell; Thomas, Clark, Watkins, Martin, Ivory, Lewis and Rogers would have been world beaters, and under Silverfield; Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Miller, and Coxie would have been average?

Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.
11-22-2021 05:58 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 05:39 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:32 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  You are a delusional dingbat. There is no point with you. Ruin is a clown, y'all must be in a secret club together

Yes, if Norvell had Clark, Watkins, Martin and Weaver, he would have developed them all into NFL running backs. If Silverfield had Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, and Gainwell, they would be average D1 backs at best.

You keep getting funnier and funnier with age.

Yeah, everybody knew they would be NFL guys when the signed with memphis. Do you know how dumb that sounds.

Are you drunk?

Yes, because Norvell developed them. Norvell would have developed Clark, Watkins, Martin and Weaver into NFL draft picks. Henderson, Gainwell, Gibson, and Pollard would have been average D1 backs, nothing more under Silverfield.

Hopefully, God will have mercy on you and you will pass out from drinking before you post again. It's no fun getting old.

Ok. Ok.

I'm through taking you serious.

You have some sort of cognitive impairment or you're fricking with me.

07-coffee3

Now you are just getting clowned and spouting gibberish. You are sad that Silverfield isn't developing players. Do you seriously think Norvell would get any of our current running backs into the NFL draft? You are asking me if I'm drunk? I hope you are.

Norvell's 3rd season he went 8-6 with a team that had White, Henderson, Pollard, Taylor, Gibson, Gainwell, Magnifico, Austin, Pop Williams, Riley Patterson, TJ Carter, Eze, JJ Russell, Austin Hall, Tim Hart, Pickens, Claybrooks, and Jonathan Wilson.

If this year's team had Riley Patterson, it would probably be 8-3. If the 2019 team had this year's kickers, they might have gone 10-4 and wouldn't have even made the conference championship game.

Patterson was the #16 kicker in the country. Kemp was the #8 kicker in the country. Norvell the player developer and Silverfield the player killer? 01-wingedeagle03-lmfao
11-22-2021 06:28 PM
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tpaw09 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 06:28 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:39 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:32 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:19 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Yes, if Norvell had Clark, Watkins, Martin and Weaver, he would have developed them all into NFL running backs. If Silverfield had Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, and Gainwell, they would be average D1 backs at best.

You keep getting funnier and funnier with age.

Yeah, everybody knew they would be NFL guys when the signed with memphis. Do you know how dumb that sounds.

Are you drunk?

Yes, because Norvell developed them. Norvell would have developed Clark, Watkins, Martin and Weaver into NFL draft picks. Henderson, Gainwell, Gibson, and Pollard would have been average D1 backs, nothing more under Silverfield.

Hopefully, God will have mercy on you and you will pass out from drinking before you post again. It's no fun getting old.

Ok. Ok.

I'm through taking you serious.

You have some sort of cognitive impairment or you're fricking with me.

07-coffee3

Now you are just getting clowned and spouting gibberish. You are sad that Silverfield isn't developing players. Do you seriously think Norvell would get any of our current running backs into the NFL draft? You are asking me if I'm drunk? I hope you are.

Norvell's 3rd season he went 8-6 with a team that had White, Henderson, Pollard, Taylor, Gibson, Gainwell, Magnifico, Austin, Pop Williams, Riley Patterson, TJ Carter, Eze, JJ Russell, Austin Hall, Tim Hart, Pickens, Claybrooks, and Jonathan Wilson.

If this year's team had Riley Patterson, it would probably be 8-3. If the 2019 team had this year's kickers, they might have gone 10-4 and wouldn't have even made the conference championship game.

Patterson was the #16 kicker in the country. Kemp was the #8 kicker in the country. Norvell the player developer and Silverfield the player killer? 01-wingedeagle03-lmfao

Too many facts which doesn’t fit their motive. Besides supporting the team, they want gripe and complain
11-22-2021 06:32 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 05:58 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Under Norvell; Thomas, Clark, Watkins, Martin, Ivory, Lewis and Rogers would have been world beaters, and under Silverfield; Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Miller, and Coxie would have been average?

Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.

The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.
11-22-2021 06:39 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
I told y'all what would happen

It happened


Keep watching dummies.

They'll let the program bleed to death a little more and fire him.

Continue your stupid musings

07-coffee3
11-22-2021 06:46 PM
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2tigers Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 06:46 PM)shere khan Wrote:  I told y'all what would happen

It happened


Keep watching dummies.

They'll let the program bleed to death a little more and fire him.

Continue your stupid musings

07-coffee3

I don't remember any of your posts that told us dummies what would happen. Could you please show us these past posts again so us dummies can become smart like you. Look forward to reading your past posts but I will keep watching no matter who the coach is. I most be really dumb because I will be there this Saturday. Go Tigers!
11-22-2021 07:18 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 06:39 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:58 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Under Norvell; Thomas, Clark, Watkins, Martin, Ivory, Lewis and Rogers would have been world beaters, and under Silverfield; Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Miller, and Coxie would have been average?

Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.

The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.
11-22-2021 08:25 PM
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tpaw09 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 08:25 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 06:39 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:58 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Under Norvell; Thomas, Clark, Watkins, Martin, Ivory, Lewis and Rogers would have been world beaters, and under Silverfield; Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Miller, and Coxie would have been average?

Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.

The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.

Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.
11-22-2021 08:37 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 08:37 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:25 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 06:39 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:58 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 03:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Under Norvell; Thomas, Clark, Watkins, Martin, Ivory, Lewis and Rogers would have been world beaters, and under Silverfield; Henderson, Pollard, Gibson, Miller, and Coxie would have been average?

Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.

The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.

Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.

True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.
11-22-2021 10:02 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 07:18 PM)2tigers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 06:46 PM)shere khan Wrote:  I told y'all what would happen

It happened


Keep watching dummies.

They'll let the program bleed to death a little more and fire him.

Continue your stupid musings

07-coffee3

I don't remember any of your posts that told us dummies what would happen. Could you please show us these past posts again so us dummies can become smart like you. Look forward to reading your past posts but I will keep watching no matter who the coach is. I most be really dumb because I will be there this Saturday. Go Tigers!

Ok

https://csnbbs.com/thread-924095.html

Teh Decline

" He is not a good coach. Look at our games last year. We won off talent. Period. It was like watching a dog die."

I made an icon bet that I would change my icon to eeyore if we had a winning record this year.

Looks safe right now.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2021 01:12 AM by shere khan.)
11-23-2021 01:10 AM
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MvETigers Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-22-2021 10:02 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:37 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:25 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 06:39 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 05:58 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Like you said it is subjective and we won't truly know. But based on how I see it most, if not all, of the former group would have performed better under Norvell's play calling. On the flip side I believe the latter would have performed worse in some capacity than they did if they were under Johns/Silverfield.

The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.

Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.

True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.

NONE of those teams had the injuries in the OL we have had this season. That single thing has hurt us more than anything. We had a player that was expected to be a game one starter get hurt and so we are playing a true freshman. The other major grinder has been hit and miss on playing time because of nagging injuries. We've had one stud OL that has remained mostly injury free all season, but that's the entire list. I am blown away by Likes, he will be a stud in the next couple of years.

The rest of the BS in this thread just makes me want to laugh.
11-25-2021 11:56 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-25-2021 11:56 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 10:02 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:37 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:25 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 06:39 PM)Stammers Wrote:  The 68 yard run that Gibson had against SMU would have been a 3 yard gain for any of our current running backs and our kickers would have missed a couple of extra points, and at least 2 out of the 4 field goals. All of Henderson and Gainwell's 40+ yard runs would have been 2-10 yard gains by any of our current running backs.

Anecdotal examples for sure, but all of that talent on the field on every play, made all the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.

Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.

True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.

NONE of those teams had the injuries in the OL we have had this season. That single thing has hurt us more than anything. We had a player that was expected to be a game one starter get hurt and so we are playing a true freshman. The other major grinder has been hit and miss on playing time because of nagging injuries. We've had one stud OL that has remained mostly injury free all season, but that's the entire list. I am blown away by Likes, he will be a stud in the next couple of years.

The rest of the BS in this thread just makes me want to laugh.

Those injuries didn't prevent better play calling for the playmakers on this team. I gave the offense a chance after what you said before, but the offense being run was still ugly before certain injuries. The injuries haven't changed what was being called last year. They just made an ugly offense worse.
11-26-2021 12:28 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-26-2021 12:28 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-25-2021 11:56 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 10:02 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:37 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:25 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Maybe, maybe not. Watkins had a 72-yard run under Norvell. That game though was against South Alabama where Gainwell had a 71-yard run as well. And I have also talked about how Watkins has a bad habit of "dancing" instead of just getting up field so I do feel he hurts himself when it comes to consistently breaking longer runs.

I disagree saying they would have made 2-10 yard gains in the same situation. Maybe 15-20 at worst. And out of the current running backs, I think Brandon Thomas would have performed near or equal to the other world beaters if he played under Norvell at Memphis.

Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.

True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.

NONE of those teams had the injuries in the OL we have had this season. That single thing has hurt us more than anything. We had a player that was expected to be a game one starter get hurt and so we are playing a true freshman. The other major grinder has been hit and miss on playing time because of nagging injuries. We've had one stud OL that has remained mostly injury free all season, but that's the entire list. I am blown away by Likes, he will be a stud in the next couple of years.

The rest of the BS in this thread just makes me want to laugh.

Those injuries didn't prevent better play calling for the playmakers on this team. I gave the offense a chance after what you said before, but the offense being run was still ugly before certain injuries. The injuries haven't changed what was being called last year. They just made an ugly offense worse.

I usually agree with you and like how analytical you are, but I will always disagree with you on this. A lot of the play calling was White handing the ball off to Henderson, Gibson, and Gainwell, and them running 40-80 yards. When you have running backs that can do that, every defense you played is screwed. You can literally do anything you want on offense and everything will work.

If we had the same coaches we have now, the same players from 2016-2019, Henderson, Gibson and Gainwell would still be scoring 40-80 yard touchdowns. If we had Norvell with the current roster, none of our current running backs would be. None of our current running backs will be in the NFL.

I don't see anyone at Florida State lighting it up.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2021 12:18 PM by Stammers.)
11-26-2021 12:16 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-26-2021 12:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-26-2021 12:28 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-25-2021 11:56 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 10:02 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 08:37 PM)tpaw09 Wrote:  Thomas is a grinder, never stops which is great, he has to protect the ball better.

True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.

NONE of those teams had the injuries in the OL we have had this season. That single thing has hurt us more than anything. We had a player that was expected to be a game one starter get hurt and so we are playing a true freshman. The other major grinder has been hit and miss on playing time because of nagging injuries. We've had one stud OL that has remained mostly injury free all season, but that's the entire list. I am blown away by Likes, he will be a stud in the next couple of years.

The rest of the BS in this thread just makes me want to laugh.

Those injuries didn't prevent better play calling for the playmakers on this team. I gave the offense a chance after what you said before, but the offense being run was still ugly before certain injuries. The injuries haven't changed what was being called last year. They just made an ugly offense worse.

I usually agree with you and like how analytical you are, but I will always disagree with you on this. A lot of the play calling was White handing the ball off to Henderson, Gibson, and Gainwell, and them running 40-80 yards. When you have running backs that can do that, every defense you played is screwed. You can literally do anything you want on offense and everything will work.

If we had the same coaches we have now, the same players from 2016-2019, Henderson, Gibson and Gainwell would still be scoring 40-80 yard touchdowns. If we had Norvell with the current roster, none of our current running backs would be. None of our current running backs will be in the NFL.

I don't see anyone at Florida State lighting it up.

Haha, same for me on your posts. And yeah we'll continue to disagree on this situation. My view will always be that the play calling gave them a better chance at accomplishing those longer runs and that they would not perform at the same level under the current staff. And I'm not just talking about the plays they actually score on.

Don't underestimate White's role back then. He still had 392 pass attempts in 2018. Then in 2019 he had 420 which I say was thanks to Norvell leaving and White getting 51 pass attempts against PSU. If Norvell called the bowl game I doubt we see him have that many attempts and he ends up closer to that 392. On the flipside I believe we would have seen more rushing attempts and plays that create opportunities for Gainwell to have a long run. We definitely ran more those two years vs passes, but with the amount of attempts its hard for me to say a lot of them were 40-80 runs.

Going back to what I said about not just the plays they scored on, Norvell (and Fuente) were good at using misdirection and mixing things up. In a thread I made awhile back I posted two FSU-based links that summarized what Norvell did in Memphis.

https://247sports.com/college/florida-st...48295660_1

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...ll-memphis

The guys you mention had the ability to make long runs longer, but the way the system was run created more opportunities for that to happen.

And I still believe that if Brandon Thomas was under Norvell, we would be putting him up there with the others that made it to the NFL. Despite everything that has happened he still had a season as good as Doroland Dorceus' second best season (2015). There would be no point in criticizing a coach for player development if that was a non-issue. The player has to have the talent and/or work ethic (some players can overcome the lack of talent by working hard and vice versa). The coach has to have the teaching ability and/or the system that maximizes player ability (also recruiting ability in college). When all of those things come together, that's when you have great seasons. When they don't you have bad to mediocre seasons. As of today I still view the problem as primarily on the coaching side.

With FSU I guess it depends on how you are defining "lighting it up". They have two RBs in the top 25 for yards per rush. Both average 6.4 which puts them with Gainwell who had 6.3.
11-27-2021 12:00 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Posts: 34,316
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Post: #77
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-27-2021 12:00 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-26-2021 12:16 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-26-2021 12:28 AM)Alanda Wrote:  
(11-25-2021 11:56 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  
(11-22-2021 10:02 PM)Alanda Wrote:  True. Henderson and Taylor had their fumble moments as well. It felt like they were still put in better positions to succeed before and after those moments.

NONE of those teams had the injuries in the OL we have had this season. That single thing has hurt us more than anything. We had a player that was expected to be a game one starter get hurt and so we are playing a true freshman. The other major grinder has been hit and miss on playing time because of nagging injuries. We've had one stud OL that has remained mostly injury free all season, but that's the entire list. I am blown away by Likes, he will be a stud in the next couple of years.

The rest of the BS in this thread just makes me want to laugh.

Those injuries didn't prevent better play calling for the playmakers on this team. I gave the offense a chance after what you said before, but the offense being run was still ugly before certain injuries. The injuries haven't changed what was being called last year. They just made an ugly offense worse.

I usually agree with you and like how analytical you are, but I will always disagree with you on this. A lot of the play calling was White handing the ball off to Henderson, Gibson, and Gainwell, and them running 40-80 yards. When you have running backs that can do that, every defense you played is screwed. You can literally do anything you want on offense and everything will work.

If we had the same coaches we have now, the same players from 2016-2019, Henderson, Gibson and Gainwell would still be scoring 40-80 yard touchdowns. If we had Norvell with the current roster, none of our current running backs would be. None of our current running backs will be in the NFL.

I don't see anyone at Florida State lighting it up.

Haha, same for me on your posts. And yeah we'll continue to disagree on this situation. My view will always be that the play calling gave them a better chance at accomplishing those longer runs and that they would not perform at the same level under the current staff. And I'm not just talking about the plays they actually score on.

Don't underestimate White's role back then. He still had 392 pass attempts in 2018. Then in 2019 he had 420 which I say was thanks to Norvell leaving and White getting 51 pass attempts against PSU. If Norvell called the bowl game I doubt we see him have that many attempts and he ends up closer to that 392. On the flipside I believe we would have seen more rushing attempts and plays that create opportunities for Gainwell to have a long run. We definitely ran more those two years vs passes, but with the amount of attempts its hard for me to say a lot of them were 40-80 runs.

Going back to what I said about not just the plays they scored on, Norvell (and Fuente) were good at using misdirection and mixing things up. In a thread I made awhile back I posted two FSU-based links that summarized what Norvell did in Memphis.

https://247sports.com/college/florida-st...48295660_1

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...ll-memphis

The guys you mention had the ability to make long runs longer, but the way the system was run created more opportunities for that to happen.

And I still believe that if Brandon Thomas was under Norvell, we would be putting him up there with the others that made it to the NFL. Despite everything that has happened he still had a season as good as Doroland Dorceus' second best season (2015). There would be no point in criticizing a coach for player development if that was a non-issue. The player has to have the talent and/or work ethic (some players can overcome the lack of talent by working hard and vice versa). The coach has to have the teaching ability and/or the system that maximizes player ability (also recruiting ability in college). When all of those things come together, that's when you have great seasons. When they don't you have bad to mediocre seasons. As of today I still view the problem as primarily on the coaching side.

With FSU I guess it depends on how you are defining "lighting it up". They have two RBs in the top 25 for yards per rush. Both average 6.4 which puts them with Gainwell who had 6.3.

Quote:Then in 2019 he had 420 which I say was thanks to Norvell leaving and White getting 51 pass attempts against PSU. If Norvell called the bowl game I doubt we see him have that many attempts and he ends up closer to that 392.

I don't get it. We ran the ball 33 times and averaged 1.9 yards per carry. How much more did you want us to run?

PSU
Points Allowed
39 Memphis
31 Minnesota
28 Ohio State
27 Indiana
21 Michigan
13 Buffalo
12 Iowa
10 Pitt
7 Purdue
7 Michigan State
7 Idaho
6 Rutgers
0 Maryland

Yards Allowed
542 Memphis
462 Indiana
459 Minnesota
429 Buffalo
417 Ohio State
417 Michigan
396 Pitt
383 Rutgers
356 Iowa
265 Michigan State
145 Idaho
128 Maryland
104 Purdue

Passing Yards Allowed
479 Memphis
372 Pitt
371 Indiana
339 Minnesota
286 Iowa
276 Michigan
245 Buffalo
199 Rutgers
188 Ohio State
182 Michigan State
141 Idaho
123 Purdue
68 Maryland

Memphis Yards Per Carry
7.9 ULM
6.9 USA
5.8 Tulsa
5.6 USF
5.2 Cincinnati 1
4.3 Cincinnati 2
4.2 Southern
4.2 Navy
4.2 SMU
4.2 Houston
3.9 Temple
3.8 Ole Piss
3.3 Tulane
1.9 Penn State

Gainwell 2019
231 - 1,459 - 4.7

Memphis 2021
382 - 1,589 - 4.2

That isn't even counting Gibson and Taylor.

I don't know how you can look at the data and say that we should have run the ball more, or find fault in any way with the gameplan. Also, keep in mind that we were were missing Dill. Orona-Lopez took his place and got destroyed. If not, we would have probably put up 50 on them.

Quote:And I still believe that if Brandon Thomas was under Norvell, we would be putting him up there with the others that made it to the NFL.

Florida State Scoring
2018 - 21.2
2019 - 27.9
2020 - 25.8
2021 - 28.2
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2021 05:03 AM by Stammers.)
11-27-2021 04:48 AM
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tpaw09 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
Nice info… data and logic is hard for these posters bc it doesn’t work for their agenda. They are falling apart on then thread on a November bb game…
11-27-2021 09:04 AM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Is this the same program that went to the Cotton Bowl…
(11-27-2021 04:48 AM)Stammers Wrote:  I don't get it. We ran the ball 33 times and averaged 1.9 yards per carry. How much more did you want us to run?

PSU
Points Allowed
39 Memphis
31 Minnesota
28 Ohio State
27 Indiana
21 Michigan
13 Buffalo
12 Iowa
10 Pitt
7 Purdue
7 Michigan State
7 Idaho
6 Rutgers
0 Maryland

Yards Allowed
542 Memphis
462 Indiana
459 Minnesota
429 Buffalo
417 Ohio State
417 Michigan
396 Pitt
383 Rutgers
356 Iowa
265 Michigan State
145 Idaho
128 Maryland
104 Purdue

Passing Yards Allowed
479 Memphis
372 Pitt
371 Indiana
339 Minnesota
286 Iowa
276 Michigan
245 Buffalo
199 Rutgers
188 Ohio State
182 Michigan State
141 Idaho
123 Purdue
68 Maryland

Memphis Yards Per Carry
7.9 ULM
6.9 USA
5.8 Tulsa
5.6 USF
5.2 Cincinnati 1
4.3 Cincinnati 2
4.2 Southern
4.2 Navy
4.2 SMU
4.2 Houston
3.9 Temple
3.8 Ole Piss
3.3 Tulane
1.9 Penn State

Gainwell 2019
231 - 1,459 - 4.7

Memphis 2021
382 - 1,589 - 4.2

That isn't even counting Gibson and Taylor.

I don't know how you can look at the data and say that we should have run the ball more, or find fault in any way with the gameplan. Also, keep in mind that we were were missing Dill. Orona-Lopez took his place and got destroyed. If not, we would have probably put up 50 on them.

Quote:And I still believe that if Brandon Thomas was under Norvell, we would be putting him up there with the others that made it to the NFL.

Florida State Scoring
2018 - 21.2
2019 - 27.9
2020 - 25.8
2021 - 28.2

Seems like you made a mistake and mentioned the team's yards per rush instead of Gainwell's 2019 number which like I mentioned before was 6.3. I'm guessing that because you said that doesn't include Gibson or Taylor. But that doesn't change that I believe the numbers this year would be higher with better play calling or that Gainwell would likely perform worse in the current system. That goes back to the subjectiveness you mentioned.

And the data supports what I watched. That's how I can say what I do about that game. Saying we averaged 1.9 yards per carry is misleading at best. It ignores the whole picture. Sacks count as rushing attempts. Brady White is listed as having 11 carries for -23 yards. I'm assuming you know that sacks count as rushing in college football. Here is how BW's "rushing" looked like:

Runs

(5:34 - 1st) Brady White run for 3 yds to the PnSt 40
(3:36 - 1st) Brady White run for 8 yds to the PnSt 19
(7:40 - 2nd) Brady White run for 5 yds to the Memph 17
(14:33 - 3rd) Brady White run for 5 yds to the Memph 32
(12:16 - 3rd) Brady White run for 1 yd for a TD, (Riley Patterson KICK)

Sacks

(10:36 - 2nd) Brady White sacked by Micah Parsons for a loss of 9 yards to the Memph 11 Brady White fumbled, forced by Micah Parsons, recovered by Memph Obinna Eze , return for 0 yards
(9:16 - 2nd) Brady White sacked by Yetur Gross-Matos for a loss of 10 yards to the Memph 6
(12:09 - 3rd) Brady White sacked by PJ Mustipher for a loss of 9 yards to the PnSt 38
(12:59 - 4th) Brady White sacked by Micah Parsons for a loss of 9 yards to the PnSt 35
(5:44 - 4th) Brady White sacked by Robert Windsor for a loss of 4 yards to the PnSt 46
(0:00 - 4th) Brady White sacked by Jayson Oweh for a loss of 4 yards to the Memph 32

On actual runs BW had 22 yards on five carries averaging 4.4 per carry. He was sacked six times for -45 yards. His "rushes" were 1/3 of the team carries and over half of those were sacks.

Other than that Austin had two carries for -6 yards. The first for -10 in the 1st qtr and the second +4 in the 2nd.

Then look at our main running backs. Patrick Taylor had eight carries for 50 yards at 6.3 per carry. Gainwell 9-34-3.8, and Gibson 2-6-3.0.

I don't know if the staff was concerned about PSU and/or wanted to change it up, but there was not much effort to try and run like we usually did that season. Gainwell had a season low for carries that game and the only game he had single-digit carries. He only had one carry that lost yards and it was his last carry of the game.

(1:53 - 3rd) Kenneth Gainwell run for a loss of 3 yards to the Memph 19

Three of his carries were for no gain and two for 10 and 19. He also had an 11 yard run that was called back due to penalty. Taylor only had one run for a loss also on his last carry of the game.

(15:00 - 4th) Patrick Taylor Jr. run for a loss of 1 yard to the Memph 48

Taylor had runs of 13, 13, and 10.

PSU definitely wasn't shutting down the run. We did that on our own by not trying enough.

We relied early and way too often on passing. In the first drive, the first five plays and seven out of 10 (ignoring the FG) were pass plays. And I'm not saying BW wasn't capable. I also think we score more not because of a healthy lineman, but because we should have stuck to our identity that got us in the NY6 in the first place.

All of this of course leaves out that on defense we should have made them beat us passing.

And I'm not sure what FSU's team scoring average has to do with individual running back performance. Like I showed, per rush they have two RB's currently on par with Gainwell. Heck Brandon Thomas' 5.8 average is right there with Patrick Taylor's best of 5.9 (2016). Again with it being subjective I believe that 5.8 would be higher under Norvell.

(11-27-2021 09:04 AM)tpaw09 Wrote:  Nice info… data and logic is hard for these posters bc it doesn’t work for their agenda.

Depends on the individual. 03-wink
11-27-2021 07:00 PM
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