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UMTiger117 Offline
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Post: #1
MyBB #5?
CBS aka G. Parrish have us at #5:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ngs/top25/

Personally, I would not rank us that high until the TO issues ahve been addressed. Your thoughts?
11-17-2021 06:46 PM
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Fluke Offline
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RE: #5?
The turnovers need to drop that’s true but my thoughts are people keep wanting to focus on this one thing that we currently are bad at and ignore the strength of our defense and other statistics. No team is perfect. It’s a matter of if what we are good at is elite enough to make up for other facets and our defense is for sure.
11-17-2021 08:04 PM
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Seabee TIger Fan Offline
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RE: #5?
We moved up by default. We’re going to our talent 90% of our opponents this year. I suspect we will see the rotation tighten up Friday in preparation for the next month of games. The top 7-8 guys are really good and the starters/ Nolley have proven they can really turn it on.
11-17-2021 08:04 PM
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Hernando Hills Tiger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: #5?
Too early for polls to be accurate.
11-17-2021 08:33 PM
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memtigbb Online
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Post: #5
RE: #5?
As of right now today, we are a legit good team. If things go as they should, we will be a great team by March. Unless things fall apart, we may very well be one of the best 5 teams in the country when we enter the tournament. As of now I would say top 10 no lower than top 15.
11-17-2021 08:38 PM
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Hernando Hills Tiger Offline
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RE: #5?
(11-17-2021 08:38 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  As of right now today, we are a legit good team. If things go as they should, we will be a great team by March. Unless things fall apart, we may very well be one of the best 5 teams in the country when we enter the tournament. As of now I would say top 10 no lower than top 15.

I hope so. We just haven't played enough and I haven't seen enough of the top teams.

Just trying not to get too excited.
11-17-2021 08:54 PM
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TigerBall Offline
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Post: #7
RE: #5?
Interesting little snipit from Arkansas's capsule:
Quote:Connor Vanover finished with 19 points and seven rebounds in Saturday's 86-69 win over Gardner-Webb. The Razorbacks' next game is Wednesday against Northern Iowa.
11-18-2021 08:40 AM
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SeñorTiger Offline
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Post: #8
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 08:40 AM)TigerBall Wrote:  Interesting little snipit from Arkansas's capsule:
Quote:Connor Vanover finished with 19 points and seven rebounds in Saturday's 86-69 win over Gardner-Webb. The Razorbacks' next game is Wednesday against Northern Iowa.

Looks like he might have gotten hurt last night. He started but only played 5 minutes.
11-18-2021 08:52 AM
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holyterror Offline
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RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 08:52 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:40 AM)TigerBall Wrote:  Interesting little snipit from Arkansas's capsule:
Quote:Connor Vanover finished with 19 points and seven rebounds in Saturday's 86-69 win over Gardner-Webb. The Razorbacks' next game is Wednesday against Northern Iowa.

Looks like he might have gotten hurt last night. He started but only played 5 minutes.

Related, High Point actually led Notre Dame 33-32 at the half the other night. Tubby told his players to back off so as to not raise expectations too high in High Point Nation.
11-18-2021 08:58 AM
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micman Offline
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RE: #5?
I'm surprised he ranked us that high. His formula normally depends solely on Ken Pom and recruiting rankings. If Ken Pom has us around 15th, and he highly values Bates, but doesn't value Jalen Duren, I'm very surprised he doesn't have us around 10th (because he at best ranks Bates 3rd behind Banchero and Holmgren).

That said, I've heard him place value on KenPom's offensive and defensive efficiency scores for Final Four teams. I think I read somewhere in here that we are top 15 in offensive efficiency and top 5 in defensive efficiency. If so, he may have used that as part of his ranking metrics.

Or maybe he knows that he was wrong about Duren, but won't admit it.
11-18-2021 11:51 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Online
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Post: #11
RE: #5?
(11-17-2021 08:04 PM)Fluke Wrote:  The turnovers need to drop that’s true but my thoughts are people keep wanting to focus on this one thing that we currently are bad at and ignore the strength of our defense and other statistics. No team is perfect. It’s a matter of if what we are good at is elite enough to make up for other facets and our defense is for sure.

It's not just 1 thing, it's 3 things, Turnovers, free throw shooting and rebounding. I'm pleased with #5 regardless.
11-18-2021 12:46 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #12
RE: #5?
St Louis had 10 less turnovers than we did. lol
11-18-2021 01:02 PM
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cmt Offline
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Post: #13
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 12:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 08:04 PM)Fluke Wrote:  The turnovers need to drop that’s true but my thoughts are people keep wanting to focus on this one thing that we currently are bad at and ignore the strength of our defense and other statistics. No team is perfect. It’s a matter of if what we are good at is elite enough to make up for other facets and our defense is for sure.

It's not just 1 thing, it's 3 things, Turnovers, free throw shooting and rebounding. I'm pleased with #5 regardless.

I heard Cody Toppert talking about rebounding. He brought up a point I never really thought about before. But first, he agreed that St Louis got way too many offensive rebounds/loose balls. I found it interesting that he brought up rebounding stats include rebounds from free throws. If the opposing team misses a lot of free throws, a player or teams rebounds can look better than they really are. We miss a lot of free throws.

We've missed 34 free throws (shooting 61%) already this season, had 60 turnovers and we have 126 rebounds.

Our opponents have missed 23 (shooting 68%) free throws, 55 TOV and have 112 rebounds

We are 15th in the country in FTA and 304th in FT% and 331st in TOV

If we make 3 more free throws and commit 3 less turnovers per game, that alone would really change all the stats drastically.

So, yes, we need to work on rebounding, but more than that we need to work on free throws and turnovers.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2021 01:54 PM by cmt.)
11-18-2021 01:53 PM
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Hernando Hills Tiger Offline
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Post: #14
RE: #5?
Young team will have turnovers. We are good enough to overcome them now with the schedule. I would expect them to come down as the team becomes more comfortable playing together.
11-18-2021 01:58 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 01:53 PM)cmt Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 12:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 08:04 PM)Fluke Wrote:  The turnovers need to drop that’s true but my thoughts are people keep wanting to focus on this one thing that we currently are bad at and ignore the strength of our defense and other statistics. No team is perfect. It’s a matter of if what we are good at is elite enough to make up for other facets and our defense is for sure.

It's not just 1 thing, it's 3 things, Turnovers, free throw shooting and rebounding. I'm pleased with #5 regardless.

I heard Cody Toppert talking about rebounding. He brought up a point I never really thought about before. But first, he agreed that St Louis got way too many offensive rebounds/loose balls. I found it interesting that he brought up rebounding stats include rebounds from free throws. If the opposing team misses a lot of free throws, a player or teams rebounds can look better than they really are. We miss a lot of free throws.

We've missed 34 free throws (shooting 61%) already this season, had 60 turnovers and we have 126 rebounds.

Our opponents have missed 23 (shooting 68%) free throws, 55 TOV and have 112 rebounds

We are 15th in the country in FTA and 304th in FT% and 331st in TOV

If we make 3 more free throws and commit 3 less turnovers per game, that alone would really change all the stats drastically.

So, yes, we need to work on rebounding, but more than that we need to work on free throws and turnovers.

Never thought about it either.
Wonder what the average (all teams) defensive rebounding % is for FT's?
I'd guess it's ~90%.
So a missed FT gives the opponent a reb.
Except when LQ is on the lane line - with his spin move.
He gets more than 1 out of 10.
11-18-2021 05:12 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 01:58 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  Young team will have turnovers. We are good enough to overcome them now with the schedule. I would expect them to come down as the team becomes more comfortable playing together.

We are not THAT young. But we do play "position-less", so we have a lot of different guys setting the offense - not just the PG.
11-18-2021 05:14 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 11:51 AM)micman Wrote:  I'm surprised he ranked us that high. His formula normally depends solely on Ken Pom and recruiting rankings. If Ken Pom has us around 15th, and he highly values Bates, but doesn't value Jalen Duren, I'm very surprised he doesn't have us around 10th (because he at best ranks Bates 3rd behind Banchero and Holmgren).

That said, I've heard him place value on KenPom's offensive and defensive efficiency scores for Final Four teams. I think I read somewhere in here that we are top 15 in offensive efficiency and top 5 in defensive efficiency. If so, he may have used that as part of his ranking metrics.

Or maybe he knows that he was wrong about Duren, but won't admit it.

Well the last sentence reminds me of someone else...but enough trolling.
We are #41 on KenPom offensive efficiency. Not the teen's, but better than other recent years. But KP won't be worth much for another few weeks until teams get connected and his preseason bias is removed.
I think GP is pretty consistent in his early polls. He looks at prior year performance, who is returning, and who are you adding. He's felt all along that with how we finished, the experience we have returning, and adding 2 lotto frosh, that we should be top-10.
11-18-2021 05:18 PM
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Hernando Hills Tiger Offline
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Post: #18
RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 05:14 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 01:58 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  Young team will have turnovers. We are good enough to overcome them now with the schedule. I would expect them to come down as the team becomes more comfortable playing together.

We are not THAT young. But we do play "position-less", so we have a lot of different guys setting the offense - not just the PG.

We start two youngsters who should be in high school this year.

Perhaps I should have said we have 8 new scholarship players instead?
11-18-2021 05:50 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 05:50 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:14 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 01:58 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  Young team will have turnovers. We are good enough to overcome them now with the schedule. I would expect them to come down as the team becomes more comfortable playing together.

We are not THAT young. But we do play "position-less", so we have a lot of different guys setting the offense - not just the PG.

We start two youngsters who should be in high school this year.

Perhaps I should have said we have 8 new scholarship players instead?

We are unique with those 2 who are 2 of the best AND youngest in college bb this year. But our other 4 "starters" are returnees and very experienced.

I just don't think we can use youth as an excuse for TO's this year. I think it's more simply style of play - positionless playmakers, fast, gambling. Plus the offensive fouls called against us are ridiculous (reputation).
11-18-2021 06:27 PM
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SeñorTiger Offline
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RE: #5?
(11-18-2021 06:27 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:50 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:14 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 01:58 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  Young team will have turnovers. We are good enough to overcome them now with the schedule. I would expect them to come down as the team becomes more comfortable playing together.

We are not THAT young. But we do play "position-less", so we have a lot of different guys setting the offense - not just the PG.

We start two youngsters who should be in high school this year.

Perhaps I should have said we have 8 new scholarship players instead?

We are unique with those 2 who are 2 of the best AND youngest in college bb this year. But our other 4 "starters" are returnees and very experienced.

I just don't think we can use youth as an excuse for TO's this year. I think it's more simply style of play - positionless playmakers, fast, gambling. Plus the offensive fouls called against us are ridiculous (reputation).

I agree. Not only do we have a lot of experienced players who still turn the ball over consistently but this has been a very consistent problem for Penny's teams every year he has been here.
11-19-2021 08:50 AM
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