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Would you have done recent expansion differently?
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 11:17 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Agree, I think the only way UNC and UVA leave the ACC is if the SEC creates an ACC division, ie jump to 24 with 8 ACC schools.

While I like that setup historically and see a lot of synergy in it, and I assume you are speaking of 2 Virginias, UNC/NCSt/Duke, Clemson, Ga Tech, and FSU, the corporate overlords would likely have it as other. They have the SEC covered already in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Their inclination would be to create a premier T1 conference and a highly competitive second conference in order to continue there hegemony over every thing South of Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri.

The obstacle they have to a highly competitive 2nd conference is Duke, UNC and UVa's hold on the identity and objectives of the ACC. If a premier T1 conference is ever to be made from the SEC then basketball prowess needs to match that of football.

The solution is a synergistic exchange. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia join Kentucky and another in the SEC. I'm thinking ESPN darling Kansas.

ESPN now balances the football setup's top heavy branding and creates premium value by having Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, and Virginia together.

When the NCAA no longer has control over hoops distributions brand vs brand in hoops will be a massive content multiplier. Early Texas influence has a bent in this direction. They like the enhanced associations and ESPN likes them too.

Then by keeping Clemson, F.S.U., N.C. St, Va Tech, and Ga Tech in the ACC, and keeping ND's partial membership ESPN has a the gravitas to build a more valuable football rival out of the ACC.

Sometimes in order to increase yield you have to remove a few stumps. When there's a viable market for stumps elsewhere it's a win win.
11-18-2021 11:38 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
The ACC has no problem that is not cured by the exit of Duke. 04-cheers
11-18-2021 12:25 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 12:25 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The ACC has no problem that is not cured by the exit of Duke. 04-cheers

It could be a win-win.03-wink
11-18-2021 12:35 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
Duke, Carolina, South Carolina, UVa., Kentucky
Florida, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Alabama, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU, Arkansas
Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
07-coffee3
11-18-2021 12:41 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 11:38 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 11:17 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Agree, I think the only way UNC and UVA leave the ACC is if the SEC creates an ACC division, ie jump to 24 with 8 ACC schools.

While I like that setup historically and see a lot of synergy in it, and I assume you are speaking of 2 Virginias, UNC/NCSt/Duke, Clemson, Ga Tech, and FSU, the corporate overlords would likely have it as other. They have the SEC covered already in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Their inclination would be to create a premier T1 conference and a highly competitive second conference in order to continue there hegemony over every thing South of Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri.

The obstacle they have to a highly competitive 2nd conference is Duke, UNC and UVa's hold on the identity and objectives of the ACC. If a premier T1 conference is ever to be made from the SEC then basketball prowess needs to match that of football.

The solution is a synergistic exchange. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia join Kentucky and another in the SEC. I'm thinking ESPN darling Kansas.

ESPN now balances the football setup's top heavy branding and creates premium value by having Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, and Virginia together.

When the NCAA no longer has control over hoops distributions brand vs brand in hoops will be a massive content multiplier. Early Texas influence has a bent in this direction. They like the enhanced associations and ESPN likes them too.

Then by keeping Clemson, F.S.U., N.C. St, Va Tech, and Ga Tech in the ACC, and keeping ND's partial membership ESPN has a the gravitas to build a more valuable football rival out of the ACC.

Sometimes in order to increase yield you have to remove a few stumps. When there's a viable market for stumps elsewhere it's a win win.

I'm Hokie Mark, and I approve this message.
07-coffee3
11-18-2021 03:12 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #46
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?


It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco. 04-cheers

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.
11-18-2021 05:59 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #47
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
I think they should have owned the East Coast in 2004 and added 7 from the Big East:

Miami
VT
BC
Pitt
Cuse
Rutgers
WVU

They could have pioneered the Mega Conference.
11-18-2021 07:38 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 05:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco. 04-cheers

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.

For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons
11-18-2021 08:42 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #49
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-18-2021 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco. 04-cheers

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.

For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons

You mean exactly what North Carolina or any other ACC would do in their own self interest.
11-19-2021 12:26 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-19-2021 12:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.

For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons

You mean exactly what North Carolina or any other ACC would do in their own self interest.


https://ospir.nd.edu/university-strategi...ty-values/
Teamwork
Works Cooperatively as a member of a team and is committed to the overall team objectives rather than own interests.
11-19-2021 05:25 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-19-2021 05:25 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.

For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons

You mean exactly what North Carolina or any other ACC would do in their own self interest.


https://ospir.nd.edu/university-strategi...ty-values/
Teamwork
Works Cooperatively as a member of a team and is committed to the overall team objectives rather than own interests.

What does that have to do with the Tar Heels?
05-nono
11-19-2021 07:15 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-19-2021 07:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 05:25 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 05:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Onus for what, exactly?

ND keeps the deal with the remainder of the ACC, plus back fills.

For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons

You mean exactly what North Carolina or any other ACC would do in their own self interest.


https://ospir.nd.edu/university-strategi...ty-values/
Teamwork
Works Cooperatively as a member of a team and is committed to the overall team objectives rather than own interests.

What does that have to do with the Tar Heels?
05-nono

We were talking about Notre Dame's responsibility05-mafia.
11-19-2021 08:00 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #53
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-19-2021 08:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 07:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 05:25 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-18-2021 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  For not doing the "right" thing when possible, for purely selfish reasons

You mean exactly what North Carolina or any other ACC would do in their own self interest.


https://ospir.nd.edu/university-strategi...ty-values/
Teamwork
Works Cooperatively as a member of a team and is committed to the overall team objectives rather than own interests.

What does that have to do with the Tar Heels?
05-nono

We were talking about Notre Dame's responsibility05-mafia.

It has zero "responsibility" to harm itself just to benefit North Carolina or any other program, whether you look up its Strategic Plan or the Code of Hammurabi.

Z-E-R-O.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021 08:14 AM by TerryD.)
11-19-2021 08:13 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-19-2021 08:13 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 08:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  We were talking about Notre Dame's responsibility05-mafia.

It has zero "responsibility" to harm itself just to benefit North Carolina or any other program, whether you look up its Strategic Plan or the Code of Hammurabi.

Z-E-R-O.

[Image: hammurabi-3.jpg]
My name is Hammurabi, and I approve this message.
11-19-2021 10:54 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
I would assert that a purely transactional, self-centered policy is un-Christian and therefore at odds with ND's underlying moral code.

Of course Martin Luther has already addressed this I suppose.04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021 12:57 PM by Statefan.)
11-19-2021 12:57 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
I actually prefer the smaller 8-10 conference setups that we had in the past. I wish the SWC still existed. I wish the Metro Conference had existed as a football playing conference with Louisville, FSU, South Carolina, GT, Miami (I believe they would have been targeted as they fit the profile), Cincinnati, Memphis, Southern Miss and Tulane. Maybe with ECU and USF too.
11-19-2021 02:39 PM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
I thought back then Syracuse was a head scratcher and still feel that way. Academics aside, WVU should have had that spot.
11-20-2021 12:09 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-20-2021 12:09 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  I thought back then Syracuse was a head scratcher and still feel that way. Academics aside, WVU should have had that spot.

Up until recently, Syracuse has traditionally been the better program. In 2003 when the ACC first attempted to invite SU, Syracuse was the much better program and team. It has been the last 10 to 15 years that WV caught up to SU and passed them because SU has had some really bad seasons, while WV has had some really great seasons with Pat White and Steve Slaton and company. Besides the head to head advantage, the real advantage for SU is that SU is in a very, very rich State with 20 million sets of eyeballs and WV is in a very poor State with 1.7 million sets of eyeballs
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2021 10:11 AM by cuseroc.)
11-20-2021 10:07 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-20-2021 10:07 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(11-20-2021 12:09 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  I thought back then Syracuse was a head scratcher and still feel that way. Academics aside, WVU should have had that spot.

Up until recently, Syracuse has traditionally been the better program. In 2003 when the ACC first attempted to invite SU, Syracuse was the much better program and team. It has been the last 10 to 15 years that WV caught up to SU and passed them because SU has had some really bad seasons, while WV has had some really great seasons with Pat White and Steve Slaton and company. Besides the head to head advantage, the real advantage for SU is that SU is in a very, very rich State with 20 million sets of eyeballs and WV is in a very poor State with 1.7 million sets of eyeballs

And don't forget men's basketball.
11-20-2021 11:47 AM
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random asian guy Online
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Post: #60
RE: Would you have done recent expansion differently?
(11-20-2021 11:47 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(11-20-2021 10:07 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(11-20-2021 12:09 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  I thought back then Syracuse was a head scratcher and still feel that way. Academics aside, WVU should have had that spot.

Up until recently, Syracuse has traditionally been the better program. In 2003 when the ACC first attempted to invite SU, Syracuse was the much better program and team. It has been the last 10 to 15 years that WV caught up to SU and passed them because SU has had some really bad seasons, while WV has had some really great seasons with Pat White and Steve Slaton and company. Besides the head to head advantage, the real advantage for SU is that SU is in a very, very rich State with 20 million sets of eyeballs and WV is in a very poor State with 1.7 million sets of eyeballs

And don't forget men's basketball.

And don’t forget academics.
11-20-2021 12:08 PM
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