This would have been the best football friendly zipper based on performance up to 2003:

ACC West - Pitt, VT, WF, Duke, Clemson, FSU
ACC East - MD, UVa, NCSU, UNC, GT, Miami

Wake and Duke are counter balanced in the West by FSU, then Clemson, VT, and Pitt.
In the east Miami is the power, but the other five present no weak football schools (Remember this is before Wake's 2006 title run and the collapse of FSU).

Maryland is not isolated by this alignment and keeps their relationship with Miami, sleight as it was.

Now with the B10 implementing their TV set, retain PSU at all cost strategy their move to the 14 is Syracuse and Rutgers for the most eyeballs.

(11-16-2021 12:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:22 AM)bluesox Wrote:  i always thought the acc should have jumped to 12 when the sec did. Add Florida state, Miami, Rutgers for the market and either V tech or South Carolina for the cohesion.

By the time the SEC expanded to 12, Penn State was in the Big Ten, Pitt was tanking, VT hadn't yet ascended, and Syracuse was winning 10 games per season.

And Rutgers was just awful athletic department; a really really awful football program with high school type of facilities (and I don't mean Texas HS). There is no way RU would have been taken by any other conference back then, even for that hypothetical NY market. They were in the same sphere as Temple, and not even the Temple of today. If you wanted NYC, you went after Syracuse. It's still who you'd take today to get into NY, even though they've been down.

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 12:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:22 AM)bluesox Wrote:  i always thought the acc should have jumped to 12 when the sec did. Add Florida state, Miami, Rutgers for the market and either V tech or South Carolina for the cohesion.

By the time the SEC expanded to 12, Penn State was in the Big Ten, Pitt was tanking, VT hadn't yet ascended, and Syracuse was winning 10 games per season.

And Rutgers was just awful athletic department; a really really awful football program with high school type of facilities (and I don't mean Texas HS). There is no way RU would have been taken by any other conference back then, even for that hypothetical NY market. They were in the same sphere as Temple, and not even the Temple of today. If you wanted NYC, you went after Syracuse. It's still who you'd take today to get into NY, even though they've been down.

In 1990 when the SEC went to 12 ACC Basketball Tournament Books were still gold.

Miami had serious image problems at that time and UNC academics were bad mouthing VT and it was still too soon for SC to come back - it had only been 20 years.

Has anyone left any of the major conferences while mad and come back? The SoCon/ACC has only two examples - SC in 1971 and MD in 2012. The SEC has one - GT in 1964. The Big 12 has Nebraska and TAMU exiting in 2011.

I can't think of anyone who has come back after leaving mad.

VT and West Virginia were effectively kicked out in 1954 over their vote on the bowl ban. The PCC collapsed in 1959 due to UCLA's cheating and Stanford's drive to get rid of them but when they reformed UCLA was there.

There has not been that much change in conferences these last 100 years. Almost all the major schools that played football in 1930 still play in their geographic/cultural homes as they existed before WWII.

MD and Rutgers are outliers in the B10.
BC and Syracuse are outliers in the ACC.
Mizzou is an outlier in the SEC.
Colorado and Utah are somewhat outliers in the PAC
West Virginia is an outlier in the B12.

8 out of 65

(11-16-2021 08:12 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:56 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 12:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:22 AM)bluesox Wrote:  i always thought the acc should have jumped to 12 when the sec did. Add Florida state, Miami, Rutgers for the market and either V tech or South Carolina for the cohesion.

By the time the SEC expanded to 12, Penn State was in the Big Ten, Pitt was tanking, VT hadn't yet ascended, and Syracuse was winning 10 games per season.

And Rutgers was just awful athletic department; a really really awful football program with high school type of facilities (and I don't mean Texas HS). There is no way RU would have been taken by any other conference back then, even for that hypothetical NY market. They were in the same sphere as Temple, and not even the Temple of today. If you wanted NYC, you went after Syracuse. It's still who you'd take today to get into NY, even though they've been down.

In 1990 when the SEC went to 12 ACC Basketball Tournament Books were still gold.

Miami had serious image problems at that time and UNC academics were bad mouthing VT and it was still too soon for SC to come back - it had only been 20 years.

Has anyone left any of the major conferences while mad and come back? The SoCon/ACC has only two examples - SC in 1971 and MD in 2012. The SEC has one - GT in 1964. The Big 12 has Nebraska and TAMU exiting in 2011.

I can't think of anyone who has come back after leaving mad.

VT and West Virginia were effectively kicked out in 1954 over their vote on the bowl ban. The PCC collapsed in 1959 due to UCLA's cheating and Stanford's drive to get rid of them but when they reformed UCLA was there.

There has not been that much change in conferences these last 100 years. Almost all the major schools that played football in 1930 still play in their geographic/cultural homes as they existed before WWII.

MD and Rutgers are outliers in the B10.
BC and Syracuse are outliers in the ACC.
Mizzou is an outlier in the SEC.
Colorado and Utah are somewhat outliers in the PAC
West Virginia is an outlier in the B12.

8 out of 65

Add Pitt and Penn State to your outlier list then. They are traditional eastern independents, not southern or midwestern. Pretty much any eastern independent is now an outlier wherever they ended up. You can pretty much also add any Texas team not playing a schedule almost exclusively made up of other Texas schools to that list too.

Pitt, Syracuse, and BC...and you can throw in Miami because it is in no way a southern school... fit in the ACC because they share similar institutional profiles with other ACC members and because Pitt, Miami, BC, and Syracuse and half of ND are also in the conference and have histories with each other as independents.

(11-16-2021 11:54 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Add Pitt and Penn State to your outlier list then. They are traditional eastern independents, not southern or midwestern. Pretty much any eastern independent is now an outlier wherever they ended up. You can pretty much also add any Texas team not playing a schedule almost exclusively made up of other Texas schools to that list too.

Pitt, Syracuse, and BC...and you can throw in Miami because it is in no way a southern school... fit in the ACC because they share similar institutional profiles with other ACC members and because Pitt, Miami, BC, and Syracuse and half of ND are also in the conference and have histories with each other as independents.

^^^ THIS ^^^

But the knife cuts both ways. Those who think of the ACC as a "Southern" conference are just as mistaken... there's room for just one "Southern" conference, and it's name begins with "S" (the "eastern" part is a misnomer).

What the ACC is now - and has been for some time, is the P5's "Eastern" conference. "Atlantic" is mostly right (much like "Southeastern" is mostly but not 100% correct). Old school ACC fans need to recognize that BC, Syracuse, and Pitt all belong in the ACC now - this is their home as much as it is UNC's or NC State's.

JMO

(11-16-2021 07:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This would have been the best football friendly zipper based on performance up to 2003:

ACC West - Pitt, VT, WF, Duke, Clemson, FSU
ACC East - MD, UVa, NCSU, UNC, GT, Miami

Wake and Duke are counter balanced in the West by FSU, then Clemson, VT, and Pitt.
In the east Miami is the power, but the other five present no weak football schools (Remember this is before Wake's 2006 title run and the collapse of FSU).

Maryland is not isolated by this alignment and keeps their relationship with Miami, sleight as it was.

Now with the B10 implementing their TV set, retain PSU at all cost strategy their move to the 14 is Syracuse and Rutgers for the most eyeballs.

I wonder about Pitt in the 2003 expansion. Miami & VT were essential to enhance football…but 12 teams were also necessary to have a CCG. I thought the debate was academic versus cultural fit (exemplified by the choice of BC or WV).

Maybe Pitt would have been the perfect compromise. A gradual expansion beyond the Tidewater & Southern footprint. Sharing that Appalachia heritage with VT, as well as the city mindset of Miami. Pitt’s strong reputation in research and medicine (as well as football championships), provides cover for the inevitable need to keep growing. Modernizing the country club without starting a culture war.

With regards to your proposed divisions, (you’ve stated it yourself many times) NFW on separating UNC-Duke-UVa. You need a compelling argument to separate the trio.

(11-15-2021 12:11 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Without Penn State the B10 might be willing to guarantee ND placement in the East.

If they did under the above scenario I could see a 14 school B10 as:

East - Rutgers, Pitt, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, ND, MSU
West - Kansas, Minn, Michigan, Ill, NW, Neb, Wisky

This puts the six football schools into an alignment that is split three three and give ND a rival of Nebraska.

Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

(11-16-2021 07:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This would have been the best football friendly zipper based on performance up to 2003:

ACC West - Pitt, VT, WF, Duke, Clemson, FSU
ACC East - MD, UVa, NCSU, UNC, GT, Miami

Wake and Duke are counter balanced in the West by FSU, then Clemson, VT, and Pitt.
In the east Miami is the power, but the other five present no weak football schools (Remember this is before Wake's 2006 title run and the collapse of FSU).

Maryland is not isolated by this alignment and keeps their relationship with Miami, sleight as it was.

Now with the B10 implementing their TV set, retain PSU at all cost strategy their move to the 14 is Syracuse and Rutgers for the most eyeballs.

Your crossovers do match up well, and would have kept everybody happy.
The other thing I would have done differently.....stop at those 12.

(11-17-2021 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  But the knife cuts both ways. Those who think of the ACC as a "Southern" conference are just as mistaken... there's room for just one "Southern" conference, and it's name begins with "S" (the "eastern" part is a misnomer).

What the ACC is now - and has been for some time, is the P5's "Eastern" conference. "Atlantic" is mostly right (much like "Southeastern" is mostly but not 100% correct). Old school ACC fans need to recognize that BC, Syracuse, and Pitt all belong in the ACC now - this is their home as much as it is UNC's or NC State's.

JMO

YES!!!

(11-17-2021 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This would have been the best football friendly zipper based on performance up to 2003:

ACC West - Pitt, VT, WF, Duke, Clemson, FSU
ACC East - MD, UVa, NCSU, UNC, GT, Miami

Wake and Duke are counter balanced in the West by FSU, then Clemson, VT, and Pitt.
In the east Miami is the power, but the other five present no weak football schools (Remember this is before Wake's 2006 title run and the collapse of FSU).

Maryland is not isolated by this alignment and keeps their relationship with Miami, sleight as it was.

Now with the B10 implementing their TV set, retain PSU at all cost strategy their move to the 14 is Syracuse and Rutgers for the most eyeballs.

I wonder about Pitt in the 2003 expansion. Miami & VT were essential to enhance football…but 12 teams were also necessary to have a CCG. I thought the debate was academic versus cultural fit (exemplified by the choice of BC or WV).

Maybe Pitt would have been the perfect compromise. A gradual expansion beyond the Tidewater & Southern footprint. Sharing that Appalachia heritage with VT, as well as the city mindset of Miami. Pitt’s strong reputation in research and medicine (as well as football championships), provides cover for the inevitable need to keep growing. Modernizing the country club without starting a culture war.

With regards to your proposed divisions, (you’ve stated it yourself many times) NFW on separating UNC-Duke-UVa. You need a compelling argument to separate the trio.

I was always wondering why PITT was not in a serious consideration in 2004 after Miami and VT were in. It’s not like then Miami president had strong influence on the expansion candidate anymore. Maybe the old school ACC brass just wanted to honor the original committment to BC instead of starting a new analysis on the ideal 12th member.

I also think Pitt would have developed a decent rivalry with UMCP. The divisions would be:

Atlantic. Coastal
Pitt UMCP
VT. UVA
Wake. Duke
NCSU. UNC
Clemsom. GT
FSU. Miami

When the SoCon split in 1932 it split South and East.

If you are a Yankee you look at MD, UVa, and Duke and think they are Southern, when they are not, they are Eastern.

You are a cultural outlier when your cultural milieu does not abut the adjacent millue.

The core of the ACC is and always has been Tidewater Atlantic. Yinzers, Appalachian Highlanders, and the Deeper South abut that culture.

The term "Eastern" has been appropriated by schools in the urban Northeast as their appellation.

When Old ACC folks talk about Damn Yankees they are talking about an area that is within the following rough parameters - Columbia MD to King of Prussia Pa, to Paramus NJ, to Scardale NY, to Fire Island on Long Island, and down to Atlantic City NJ and then back down to Columbia MD. That's cities of Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Atlantic City, Newark, and Trenton and their exurbs. Abutting this culture to the northeast is New England, to the West and Northwest is Upstate.

Damn Yankees have an urban culture with a mercantile base built on non-English early settlement (Dutch, Lowland German, etc) followed by successive waves of immigrants from Europe. The Tidewater Atlantic was the project of English settlement followed by some Pa German migration and Highland and Ulster Scot diaspora.

Hence someone from Cleveland or Buffalo is not really a Yankee, but in a pinch Yankee works if you are in need of a quick insult.

(11-17-2021 12:17 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 07:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  This would have been the best football friendly zipper based on performance up to 2003:

ACC West - Pitt, VT, WF, Duke, Clemson, FSU
ACC East - MD, UVa, NCSU, UNC, GT, Miami

Wake and Duke are counter balanced in the West by FSU, then Clemson, VT, and Pitt.
In the east Miami is the power, but the other five present no weak football schools (Remember this is before Wake's 2006 title run and the collapse of FSU).

Maryland is not isolated by this alignment and keeps their relationship with Miami, sleight as it was.

Now with the B10 implementing their TV set, retain PSU at all cost strategy their move to the 14 is Syracuse and Rutgers for the most eyeballs.

I wonder about Pitt in the 2003 expansion. Miami & VT were essential to enhance football…but 12 teams were also necessary to have a CCG. I thought the debate was academic versus cultural fit (exemplified by the choice of BC or WV).

Maybe Pitt would have been the perfect compromise. A gradual expansion beyond the Tidewater & Southern footprint. Sharing that Appalachia heritage with VT, as well as the city mindset of Miami. Pitt’s strong reputation in research and medicine (as well as football championships), provides cover for the inevitable need to keep growing. Modernizing the country club without starting a culture war.

With regards to your proposed divisions, (you’ve stated it yourself many times) NFW on separating UNC-Duke-UVa. You need a compelling argument to separate the trio.

The compelling argument is that you can not flip Duke with either UNC or NC State without making the west division grossly unbalanced, essentially recreating much of today's problems. Duke still gets UNC each year and can play GT as much as GT wants but if we are going to screw up divisions it's not going to be preserving Duke and GT versus Clemson and GT, UNC v Duke, NC State, UVa, or UVa and VT, or FSU and Miami, or MD with UVa, UNC, and NC State.

Something has to give and it might as well be a give from the ACC's football parasite.

The vast majority of all the ACC's problems since 1962 come out of Durham. Placating Duke relative to football is beyond stupid and UVa and Carolina do it to keep their vote tight in all other matters. Duke deemphasized football after 1962, let the ******* be the Vanderbilt of the ACC, but don't allow them to set policy.

Never forget - Duke needs no money. Duke likes money but does not need it for a damn thing. Duke's alumni base is small and little of it actually lives in Triangle Metro Area. Duke does not give a damn about Clemson's, or GT's, or VT's, or FSU's football program. And lest you take the eye off the ball, follow the recent little incident and see what happens.

If Duke is your athletic conscious you are already damned to Hell.

(11-17-2021 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:54 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Add Pitt and Penn State to your outlier list then. They are traditional eastern independents, not southern or midwestern. Pretty much any eastern independent is now an outlier wherever they ended up. You can pretty much also add any Texas team not playing a schedule almost exclusively made up of other Texas schools to that list too.

Pitt, Syracuse, and BC...and you can throw in Miami because it is in no way a southern school... fit in the ACC because they share similar institutional profiles with other ACC members and because Pitt, Miami, BC, and Syracuse and half of ND are also in the conference and have histories with each other as independents.

^^^ THIS ^^^

But the knife cuts both ways. Those who think of the ACC as a "Southern" conference are just as mistaken... there's room for just one "Southern" conference, and it's name begins with "S" (the "eastern" part is a misnomer).

What the ACC is now - and has been for some time, is the P5's "Eastern" conference. "Atlantic" is mostly right (much like "Southeastern" is mostly but not 100% correct). Old school ACC fans need to recognize that BC, Syracuse, and Pitt all belong in the ACC now - this is their home as much as it is UNC's or NC State's.

JMO

It's been said that "everybody has one".

(11-17-2021 08:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 10:13 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:54 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Add Pitt and Penn State to your outlier list then. They are traditional eastern independents, not southern or midwestern. Pretty much any eastern independent is now an outlier wherever they ended up. You can pretty much also add any Texas team not playing a schedule almost exclusively made up of other Texas schools to that list too.

Pitt, Syracuse, and BC...and you can throw in Miami because it is in no way a southern school... fit in the ACC because they share similar institutional profiles with other ACC members and because Pitt, Miami, BC, and Syracuse and half of ND are also in the conference and have histories with each other as independents.

^^^ THIS ^^^

But the knife cuts both ways. Those who think of the ACC as a "Southern" conference are just as mistaken... there's room for just one "Southern" conference, and it's name begins with "S" (the "eastern" part is a misnomer).

What the ACC is now - and has been for some time, is the P5's "Eastern" conference. "Atlantic" is mostly right (much like "Southeastern" is mostly but not 100% correct). Old school ACC fans need to recognize that BC, Syracuse, and Pitt all belong in the ACC now - this is their home as much as it is UNC's or NC State's.

JMO

It's been said that "everybody has one".

"Take your place next to Texas in the SEC and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!" "But which is the Master and which is the apprentice?"

(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 12:11 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Without Penn State the B10 might be willing to guarantee ND placement in the East.

If they did under the above scenario I could see a 14 school B10 as:

East - Rutgers, Pitt, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, ND, MSU
West - Kansas, Minn, Michigan, Ill, NW, Neb, Wisky

This puts the six football schools into an alignment that is split three three and give ND a rival of Nebraska.

Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 12:11 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Without Penn State the B10 might be willing to guarantee ND placement in the East.

If they did under the above scenario I could see a 14 school B10 as:

East - Rutgers, Pitt, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, ND, MSU
West - Kansas, Minn, Michigan, Ill, NW, Neb, Wisky

This puts the six football schools into an alignment that is split three three and give ND a rival of Nebraska.

Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco.

(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 12:11 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Without Penn State the B10 might be willing to guarantee ND placement in the East.

If they did under the above scenario I could see a 14 school B10 as:

East - Rutgers, Pitt, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, ND, MSU
West - Kansas, Minn, Michigan, Ill, NW, Neb, Wisky

This puts the six football schools into an alignment that is split three three and give ND a rival of Nebraska.

Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco.

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 12:11 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Without Penn State the B10 might be willing to guarantee ND placement in the East.

If they did under the above scenario I could see a 14 school B10 as:

East - Rutgers, Pitt, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, ND, MSU
West - Kansas, Minn, Michigan, Ill, NW, Neb, Wisky

This puts the six football schools into an alignment that is split three three and give ND a rival of Nebraska.

Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco.

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

(11-18-2021 08:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-18-2021 06:44 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 10:02 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 09:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-17-2021 12:26 PM)YNot Wrote:  Would have first looked like this:

LEADERS - Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
LEGENDS - Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Does the B1G still look eastward, or do they settle for Kansas? If looking eastward only, do they take Pitt and Maryland? Pitt and Syracuse? Rutgers?

It would not have mattered what the Big Ten did with PSU or what it would have offered ND.

The answer to the Big Ten would still have been "no", just as it actually happened in 1999.

We know you are waiting for the following - the ND Conference:

School - Number of Games

Navy - 92
USC - 90
Purdue - 85
Michigan State - 77
Pitt - 71
Stanford - 33
Miami - 26
BC - 25
SMU - 13

All your old favorites plus a buddy in Florida, Texas, Boston, and San Francisco.

Nope. I am waiting for status quo through 2036.

If JR happens to be correct and Carolina and one other ACC team truly start to see if the grass is greener in the B1G or the SEC, like it or not, the onus falls on Notre Dame.

Hell will have frozen over before UNC goes to the Big 10 without dragging 3-5 other ACC schools. UNC will not play in the B10 unless they have their own division.

At 18 in the B10 UNC will demand MD, Rutgers, Duke, UVa, and GT in a UNC division.
I don't see the B10 agreeing to that.

Ohio State and Michigan are not going to allow Carolina and or Duke to come in and push them around. Just not happening. Georgia, Bama, and LSU are not going to allow Carolina to come in and dictate anything.

Control is worth money to UNC and Duke. Would they forego 30-40 million a year to retain control of the ACC, very likely. That means the differential has to grow to nearly 60-70 million a year and I can't see ESPN allowing that to happen. I could be wrong.

Agree, I think the only way UNC and UVA leave the ACC is if the SEC creates an ACC division, ie jump to 24 with 8 ACC schools.