NDSU would definitely replace BOISE ST if they go. very similiar programs, both have that NICHE appeal and national brand already.

I hope we just keep the 14 schools we have now for the long-term. I think we have a nice balance.

That being said, if something does come up and we lose a Georgia State or a Texas State, the good news for the Sunbelt is that we have a nice list to pick from. I could see the following schools be targets:

East:

1. Liberty (Would have nice built-in regional rivalries with Marshall/ODU/JMU/APP/George Southern etc)
2. Delaware (New state that would expand the footprint a little north but Delaware would be very happy playing against the current east members)

Longterm/Outside Shots: ECU/Ohio/VCU

Obviously ECU would be at the top of the East list but that would be many years down the road after they have finished collecting their current $7 Mill a year in the American.

Ohio would very much fit the mold of some Sunbelt schools. The Sunbelt would get into the state of Ohio and Ohio U would be a nice travel partner with Marshall. Longshot that Ohio would leave the MAC but as things around them in the MAC conference start to deteriorate they might think otherwise at some point down the road.

VCU...Doesn't "currently" have a football program but that could change in the near future if the administration wants to sponsor the sport.

West:

1. Lat Tech (Some nice rivalries for the Sunbelt could form with Lat Tech)
2. Missouri State (New state, nice travel partner for Arkansas State)

One could make the argument that WKU should be included in this list but all indicators point to the league not wanting WKU.

Dark Horse Possibility?....Tennessee Tech. Don't laugh at this one. Tech has been growing and has been ranked by many as the #1 public school in Tennessee. They have a nice basketball arena and an easily expandable football stadium. They would have nice fit in this conference. Sits right between Nashville and Knoxville. I have a contact down there and I've been told they have been quietly researching the possibility of moving to FBS in the future and they are in the middle of upgrading facilities to get closer to that possibility. Its a school very much in the same mold of current Sunbelt members.

Still think if we lost Texas St then La Tech would be a cool add. If we could get La Tech fans to chill their ego, tripling down in Louisiana adds at least two rivalries. Butts in seats/ eyeballs on the tv is what matters, not adding into big markets. Rivalries does that.

Then if we can out do AAC on a TV contract and I think we should, teams have close to similar following and we’re playing weeknight games. Weeknight games should be where the money is if you’re not P5. Regardless ECU is not going to be happy unless they were in the ACC or Big12 with their P5 rivals, I wish that for them, but if not the Sun Belt has the only teams left that they consider rivals (Marshall and SoMiss) and I think the other regional schools would just be a plus.

Get the upper hand on the AAC and just go to 16 teams. Add ECU and triple down in Alabama with UAB. That adds for rivalries, if not more.

Then either go to 10 conference games with two divisions and form a scheduling alliance where all teams schedule one OOC game with MAC and one with MWC.

Or

Keep eight conference games and have four four team pods that are within two divisions. Scheduling would include one game with each team in your pod(3), then choose one rival you play each year from the other three pods(3). Finally one game that rotates between the remaining teams in your division and one games that rotates between remaining teams in the opposite division.

North/Atlantic - ODU, JMU, Marshall and ECU
South/Atlantic - Appy St, Coastal, Georgia St and Georgia Southern
East/Gulf - UAB, Troy, South Alabama and SoMiss
West/Gulf - ARST, La Tech, UL and ULM

Example schedule for ECU in this scenario; ODU (intraPod), JMU (intraPod), Marshall (intraPod), Appy st (SoAtlanticRIVAL), SoMiss (EGulfRIVAL), La Tech (WGulfRIVAL), Coastal (Rotating/intra/division) and UAB (Rotating/opposite/divisions).

(11-16-2021 09:18 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:07 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-14-2021 09:14 AM)APPdiesel Wrote:  SBC won’t poach anyone from the AAC unless/until our monetary payouts exceed theirs. $8-10 million is what it would take to peak EZU’s interest, maybe more…Or their ESPN deal would have to shrink considerably the next time it comes due for renegotiation. Lot of if’s and but’s there.

Not as many Pirate fans are clamoring to be with App and Coastal as you think.

No ECU fans are "clamoring" to be with Coastal, and very few are with App. Don't take that as an insult though, because no ECU fans are clamoring to be with Tulsa/Tulane/Rice/almost all the rest of the AAC. If it made obvious financial sense to move to the SBC ECU would do it, leagues for ECU are honestly just marriages of convenience and if the SBC were to somehow become the most lucrative league available for ECU then sure we'd join. However, the likelihood that the SBC anytime if ever could be worth enough to pay a 10 million exit fee is essentially non-existent.

I think quite a few ECU people preferred App to the monstrosity that Aresco went out and added. Based on the 247 board, I'd say that most expected App to be the add once the MWC schools turned the AAC down, and the disappointment when Charlotte was announced was palpable.

If the AAC and Sun Belt payouts do become the same, and exposure on linear network games is equal, I think that ECU would be better off in the Sun Belt, personally. Good to great baseball and softball, decent enough basketball, better football.

I think most ECU fans would have preferred App to Charlotte sure. However, even in a world where payouts and exposure were the same that still wouldn't be close to enough to move, and the gap on total conference distribution not just TV revenue is wider than you think it is between the AAC and the Sun-Belt. If the Sun-Belt could get to the point where they distributed 2-3 million a year more than the AAC then sure ECU would move, I'm not rooting against that happening that would be awesome if the SBC could get to the point where they were distributing 15 million per school per year when you factor in everything from tournament credits, CFP money, TV deals, bowl deals, etc. Hope it happens.

As a Marshall fan. I want nothing to do as a conference member with ECU. Their fans always thought they were to good for CUSA. And they haven't done a damn thing since 2009 in either CUSA or the AAC. They think they belong with UNC, NC State and Duke. And those programs don't/wouldn't even see ECU as a half step brother let a lone an equal.

Their fans and admin have always been looking for something that will never materialize and for that reason they will always be looking for something that isn't there and will never be satisfied anywhere they are. It took a while to understand that.

(11-16-2021 01:31 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 09:18 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:07 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-14-2021 09:14 AM)APPdiesel Wrote:  SBC won’t poach anyone from the AAC unless/until our monetary payouts exceed theirs. $8-10 million is what it would take to peak EZU’s interest, maybe more…Or their ESPN deal would have to shrink considerably the next time it comes due for renegotiation. Lot of if’s and but’s there.

Not as many Pirate fans are clamoring to be with App and Coastal as you think.

No ECU fans are "clamoring" to be with Coastal, and very few are with App. Don't take that as an insult though, because no ECU fans are clamoring to be with Tulsa/Tulane/Rice/almost all the rest of the AAC. If it made obvious financial sense to move to the SBC ECU would do it, leagues for ECU are honestly just marriages of convenience and if the SBC were to somehow become the most lucrative league available for ECU then sure we'd join. However, the likelihood that the SBC anytime if ever could be worth enough to pay a 10 million exit fee is essentially non-existent.

I think quite a few ECU people preferred App to the monstrosity that Aresco went out and added. Based on the 247 board, I'd say that most expected App to be the add once the MWC schools turned the AAC down, and the disappointment when Charlotte was announced was palpable.

If the AAC and Sun Belt payouts do become the same, and exposure on linear network games is equal, I think that ECU would be better off in the Sun Belt, personally. Good to great baseball and softball, decent enough basketball, better football.

I think most ECU fans would have preferred App to Charlotte sure. However, even in a world where payouts and exposure were the same that still wouldn't be close to enough to move, and the gap on total conference distribution not just TV revenue is wider than you think it is between the AAC and the Sun-Belt. If the Sun-Belt could get to the point where they distributed 2-3 million a year more than the AAC then sure ECU would move, I'm not rooting against that happening that would be awesome if the SBC could get to the point where they were distributing 15 million per school per year when you factor in everything from tournament credits, CFP money, TV deals, bowl deals, etc. Hope it happens.

What do you think is going to happen to all of that without Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF?

With the schools you've just added, you stand to lose more than you otherwise would have. Of course it's ESPN's fault, in part, because they blocked Aresco from looking elsewhere.

Why do you think Sun Belt programs all said no to the AAC? Was it because they weren't approached or considered? No. It was because they said no. Why did they say no? That's the question you have to answer and it's almost assuredly related to money.

(11-16-2021 02:30 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 01:31 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 09:18 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:07 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-14-2021 09:14 AM)APPdiesel Wrote:  SBC won’t poach anyone from the AAC unless/until our monetary payouts exceed theirs. $8-10 million is what it would take to peak EZU’s interest, maybe more…Or their ESPN deal would have to shrink considerably the next time it comes due for renegotiation. Lot of if’s and but’s there.

Not as many Pirate fans are clamoring to be with App and Coastal as you think.

No ECU fans are "clamoring" to be with Coastal, and very few are with App. Don't take that as an insult though, because no ECU fans are clamoring to be with Tulsa/Tulane/Rice/almost all the rest of the AAC. If it made obvious financial sense to move to the SBC ECU would do it, leagues for ECU are honestly just marriages of convenience and if the SBC were to somehow become the most lucrative league available for ECU then sure we'd join. However, the likelihood that the SBC anytime if ever could be worth enough to pay a 10 million exit fee is essentially non-existent.

I think quite a few ECU people preferred App to the monstrosity that Aresco went out and added. Based on the 247 board, I'd say that most expected App to be the add once the MWC schools turned the AAC down, and the disappointment when Charlotte was announced was palpable.

If the AAC and Sun Belt payouts do become the same, and exposure on linear network games is equal, I think that ECU would be better off in the Sun Belt, personally. Good to great baseball and softball, decent enough basketball, better football.

I think most ECU fans would have preferred App to Charlotte sure. However, even in a world where payouts and exposure were the same that still wouldn't be close to enough to move, and the gap on total conference distribution not just TV revenue is wider than you think it is between the AAC and the Sun-Belt. If the Sun-Belt could get to the point where they distributed 2-3 million a year more than the AAC then sure ECU would move, I'm not rooting against that happening that would be awesome if the SBC could get to the point where they were distributing 15 million per school per year when you factor in everything from tournament credits, CFP money, TV deals, bowl deals, etc. Hope it happens.

What do you think is going to happen to all of that without Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF?

With the schools you've just added, you stand to lose more than you otherwise would have. Of course it's ESPN's fault, in part, because they blocked Aresco from looking elsewhere.

Why do you think Sun Belt programs all said no to the AAC? Was it because they weren't approached or considered? No. It was because they said no. Why did they say no? That's the question you have to answer and it's almost assuredly related to money.

I don't think SBC members said "no" with a very small outside chance of future member ODU declining to raise its budget. I don't think any SBC member was approached by the AAC because ESPN already let the AAC know which additions it valued. You can't say no to an offer that never comes.

(11-16-2021 02:59 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 02:30 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 01:31 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 09:18 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:07 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  No ECU fans are "clamoring" to be with Coastal, and very few are with App. Don't take that as an insult though, because no ECU fans are clamoring to be with Tulsa/Tulane/Rice/almost all the rest of the AAC. If it made obvious financial sense to move to the SBC ECU would do it, leagues for ECU are honestly just marriages of convenience and if the SBC were to somehow become the most lucrative league available for ECU then sure we'd join. However, the likelihood that the SBC anytime if ever could be worth enough to pay a 10 million exit fee is essentially non-existent.

I think quite a few ECU people preferred App to the monstrosity that Aresco went out and added. Based on the 247 board, I'd say that most expected App to be the add once the MWC schools turned the AAC down, and the disappointment when Charlotte was announced was palpable.

If the AAC and Sun Belt payouts do become the same, and exposure on linear network games is equal, I think that ECU would be better off in the Sun Belt, personally. Good to great baseball and softball, decent enough basketball, better football.

I think most ECU fans would have preferred App to Charlotte sure. However, even in a world where payouts and exposure were the same that still wouldn't be close to enough to move, and the gap on total conference distribution not just TV revenue is wider than you think it is between the AAC and the Sun-Belt. If the Sun-Belt could get to the point where they distributed 2-3 million a year more than the AAC then sure ECU would move, I'm not rooting against that happening that would be awesome if the SBC could get to the point where they were distributing 15 million per school per year when you factor in everything from tournament credits, CFP money, TV deals, bowl deals, etc. Hope it happens.

What do you think is going to happen to all of that without Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF?

With the schools you've just added, you stand to lose more than you otherwise would have. Of course it's ESPN's fault, in part, because they blocked Aresco from looking elsewhere.

Why do you think Sun Belt programs all said no to the AAC? Was it because they weren't approached or considered? No. It was because they said no. Why did they say no? That's the question you have to answer and it's almost assuredly related to money.

I don't think SBC members said "no" with a very small outside chance of future member ODU declining to raise its budget. I don't think any SBC member was approached by the AAC because ESPN already let the AAC know which additions it valued. You can't say no to an offer that never comes.

I agree, not heard anything that says the AAC looked into Sunbelt teams, but he has a point. Have to realize the AAC was the beneficiary of everything Cincinnati, Houston and UCF brought to the table. Not to mention the AAC is still not stable and could lose more. Taking away your best assets and diluting the conference with the lower half of a BAD CUSA is not going to give you the same exposure, payouts, etc that you’re used to. Sun Belt adds will increase exposure and payouts in my belief. Last thing to consider is ECU is one of the AAC’s top dogs now thus the AAC is only going to get as much exposure or payouts that you’re worth. You can take that to the AAC or the Sun Belt and it’s going to be the same situation.

(11-16-2021 02:30 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 01:31 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 09:18 AM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:07 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-14-2021 09:14 AM)APPdiesel Wrote:  SBC won’t poach anyone from the AAC unless/until our monetary payouts exceed theirs. $8-10 million is what it would take to peak EZU’s interest, maybe more…Or their ESPN deal would have to shrink considerably the next time it comes due for renegotiation. Lot of if’s and but’s there.

Not as many Pirate fans are clamoring to be with App and Coastal as you think.

No ECU fans are "clamoring" to be with Coastal, and very few are with App. Don't take that as an insult though, because no ECU fans are clamoring to be with Tulsa/Tulane/Rice/almost all the rest of the AAC. If it made obvious financial sense to move to the SBC ECU would do it, leagues for ECU are honestly just marriages of convenience and if the SBC were to somehow become the most lucrative league available for ECU then sure we'd join. However, the likelihood that the SBC anytime if ever could be worth enough to pay a 10 million exit fee is essentially non-existent.

I think quite a few ECU people preferred App to the monstrosity that Aresco went out and added. Based on the 247 board, I'd say that most expected App to be the add once the MWC schools turned the AAC down, and the disappointment when Charlotte was announced was palpable.

If the AAC and Sun Belt payouts do become the same, and exposure on linear network games is equal, I think that ECU would be better off in the Sun Belt, personally. Good to great baseball and softball, decent enough basketball, better football.

I think most ECU fans would have preferred App to Charlotte sure. However, even in a world where payouts and exposure were the same that still wouldn't be close to enough to move, and the gap on total conference distribution not just TV revenue is wider than you think it is between the AAC and the Sun-Belt. If the Sun-Belt could get to the point where they distributed 2-3 million a year more than the AAC then sure ECU would move, I'm not rooting against that happening that would be awesome if the SBC could get to the point where they were distributing 15 million per school per year when you factor in everything from tournament credits, CFP money, TV deals, bowl deals, etc. Hope it happens.

What do you think is going to happen to all of that without Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF?

With the schools you've just added, you stand to lose more than you otherwise would have. Of course it's ESPN's fault, in part, because they blocked Aresco from looking elsewhere.

Why do you think Sun Belt programs all said no to the AAC? Was it because they weren't approached or considered? No. It was because they said no. Why did they say no? That's the question you have to answer and it's almost assuredly related to money.

I think the TV revenue will remain relatively unchanged for the remaining members, as that was the reason for going to 14 and yes ESPN was the reason for it. As far as some of the other distributions coming from tournament credits/CFP money that could decline depending on how much the products on the court/field decline, but for example the AAC is going to get credits from Houston's Final 4 run for the next 7 years regardless of the fact that they aren't in the league anymore. If they were to go on a run this year we get those credits as well, so the AAC will benefit from things they did for years to come. That stuff adds up quickly and if Memphis has finally gotten their act together that's more potential tournament revenue that just builds upon itself. It's a big part of the reason especially at the non-power level ignoring basketball is stupid. Having a consistent multi bid basketball league with teams that can make runs pays millions and keeps building on itself. What I'm way more worried about than the football strength of the AAC after the departures is the hoops strength.

(11-16-2021 01:57 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  As a Marshall fan. I want nothing to do as a conference member with ECU. Their fans always thought they were to good for CUSA. And they haven't done a damn thing since 2009 in either CUSA or the AAC. They think they belong with UNC, NC State and Duke. And those programs don't/wouldn't even see ECU as a half step brother let a lone an equal.

Their fans and admin have always been looking for something that will never materialize and for that reason they will always be looking for something that isn't there and will never be satisfied anywhere they are. It took a while to understand that.

Sounds a little bit like Marshall fans these past few months.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed Appdiesel.

For a long time Marshall was chasing the next move up.
We knew the MAC was temporary when we joined. It was a means to an end to move up to I-A.
We always had our sights set on the Big East at the time.
Of course that all blew up. We were in line for FB only in the original CUSA 1.0.
Being with UofL and Cinci was our goal then. We beat them in bowl games year after year.
We couldn’t get the Horizon League deal worked out in time, and then CUSA 1.0 blew up, and we missed the BigEast call up. So we went to CUSA 2.0, happy to be with ECU, Memphis, Houston etc. We still wanted to use that as a pedestal to get to the BigEast. It’s what the State of WV knew. And we wanted to be on that level.

But then football blew up. And the Big East with it. We knew the B12 wasn’t an option ever, nor was the ACC ever. So sights were still set (as it was for a lot of people) on the AAC, and making the famed “best of the rest”. They went stupid and went for the big market grab, and there was an audible vomit sound coming from the rest of the members.

For a few years now, most Herd fans have been on the regional conference train. All of our rivals were gone, esp once ECU left. Now, the fun days of the SoCon were again possible with the rise of the SBC. And honestly that wouldn’t have been possible without you all shedding the teams you did to CUSA (which I’m glad are gone from the league).

Here fans are VERY planted now with where we are. There’s nowhere to look “up” to in my opinion. None of us are going P5. But what we can do is be in the absolute BEST league with rivalries, fan interest etc. We’ve had zero of that in CUSA these past few years. Literally everyone has hated anything to do with the league. Zero fan interest in conference.

But that has taken a complete 180* turn.

The AAC screwed up.

I think the SBC and the MWC are the 2 premier conferences not in the P5.
And IMO, we should be looking to work with them for a inter-league “challenge”. Hard to do with opposing media network interest though.

I, as well as every Herd fan I know, finally feel like we are home. Forever.
And we are beyond excited to be in the SBC.

I hope Texas St stays long term.
If we do end up adding west, I’d say Missouri St would be the place to look. Second school in that state. Good basketball.

And as always, ECU and USF, I think you keep that open invite to.

I know most on here root heavily for the little engine that could in ULM. They are my only worry about being able to keep up. Because I think this conference is getting ready to put the gas pedal down. And we all need to do our part with winning non-conf in FB/BB, major facilities improvements, and increasing budgets to 50-60M across the board.

As ECU fan said above, basketball credits are huge. We need to get basketball better. And make some runs. Once Memphis leaves the AAC too, they’ll be in a world of long term hurt.

Count me as one Herd fan who always thinks we should be in a league with ECU.

The SBC can easily pass the AAC in everything if we push for it. And we need some public perception built up, when the winning comes.

Rivalries, unification. We can and will do this together.

I’m excited for our entire East Div. I hope that Georgia St will see that the SBC is the place to be and never want to leave for the AAC.

I’m also crazy excited for Louisiana, AState, Texas St, Southern Miss in the west. I will be making all of those trips. I really feel Missouri St could fit right in there.

(11-14-2021 08:04 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  It's impossible to know what may or may not happen next, but it is completely possible the Big 12 could further expand to 14 with Memphis and Boise (or even 16 with SMU and USF, though this is more far fetched). David Smoak of 365 Sports, who is well connected particularly with Big 12 coaches and AD's, especially Baylor, has stated multiple times on his show a "Chapter 2" of expansion can very well still happen and that Bob Bowlsby hasn't shut that door at all.

Anyway, the way that the two conferences losing schools react is where it matters to us in the Sun Belt.

My question for discussion is: if the Big 12 were to take those two schools, what happens next?

I think the answer for the AAC is much easier. AAC just gonna AAC. They'll do the only thing they know how to do, and that is to add a school with historically sub-.500 in or near a large city. My guess is that they'd go after FIU, especially if USF also leaves. But I could also see them thinking they could get the Nashville MaRkEt and get MTSU.

What the MW does could have a direct impact on the SBC. They could get back to 12 with just UTEP or NMSU, but I don't see it. I can't remember if it was the Col. State AD or AFA AD, but one of them had an interview back in September where they said they wanted to get into the "Central Tim Zone." At the time, the assumption was a target of North Texas. But I think UNT is off the table, as they're not going to want to pay exit fees to both CUSA and the AAC.

I think the MW could have TXST as a target. I mean, it is a great location right between San Antonio and Austin. Big school, potential, etc. Stuff we all already know. But the MW can't be told by ESPN, "No, you cant go after a SB school because they're already an ESPN property." The MW isn't with ESPN. They can try to get anyone they want. It's different from the AAC, who probably couldn't get SB schools because the AAC and SB schools are 100% ESPN. (It is possible the MW could aim for NDSU or Montana, but who knows. I could see them just wanting FBS schools.)

If TXST were to go, which I kind of think they would if given the opportunity, what does the SB do?

I'm thinking the SB just let's the state of Texas go. You just have to get the best thing you can. SHSU or some other FCS school just for the sake of staying in Texas doesn't make sense. I think WKU would get the call. And La. Tech would stay in their "new and improved" CUSA.

Whaddya think?

Personally, I can not see that happening anytime soon. You never know what the future holds for college football though. Buy FIU some new shoes, pads j-straps and unis, and who knows in a decade or so, the SEC commish just might give their AD a call.

stAte fans, what do you think of Missouri State in the west. Would be a great BB addition.
They’d have to step up the football facilities though. Any history there with them being close proximity?