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UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-11-2021 10:38 AM)LovethoseDukes Wrote:  Dan Crain's article mirrors most of my thoughts over the last couple of weeks. JMU made this decision for the almighty dollar and for football. Anyone who believes anything else needs to look again. I have been blasted on various JMU forums for trying to place blame on the JMU administrators and I am tired of pointing out facts to them. My heart aches for the student-athletes who have lost out on a chance to represent a school most of them love dearly and, especially after the heartaches of the last two years playing or not playing due to COVID, this is one more slap in the face. Will they get over it as individuals? I think the pain will fade a bit, but I truly believe this could have been handled in a much better way to benefit more than the football team. Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts.
It's my understanding that football operates with a different set of bylaws and this rule does not apply to CAA football .
11-11-2021 12:17 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #22
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-11-2021 09:52 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 09:38 AM)70shawk Wrote:  When this rule was enforced before no one (outside of the institution being penalized) said a peep. What has changed in the world is that a whole host of rules that put the institution before the athletes have been, and are being, changed or waived - as they should be.

So JMU, the institution, doesn't have much to b*tch about, but players everywhere are justifiably asking "WTF???".

Here's a great write-up:

Write up by Dan Crain from "Always a Dragon" re: JMU situation


Not allowing the athletes to compete because of a move their administration is making doesn’t just feel unjust – it is unjust. And this is generally what the news media (aided by what must be said is an awful lot of anonymous quotes from Harrisonburg – we’ll get to that) is running with. It’s a bad rule and when the conference commissioner, Joe D’Antonio comes out with this quote: “It’s not my job to determine whether it makes sense or doesn’t make sense. It’s my job to make sure the bylaws are enforced as they are written.” It becomes clear that even the enforcement agent doesn’t stand behind it. It’s a bad rule, and it should be removed from the CAA Bylaws by the university presidents who have the power to do so.

Note how "Joey D" threw the schools he worked for under the bus. Interesting...

I will assume that everyone who supports "putting the athletes first" will assure that every athletic move going forward is based on less travel, less practice time, less emphasis on money to the university, smaller student athletic fees, less emphasis on winning, the free movement of student athletes with no penalties....right?

Was the driving force of JMU to FBS in the Sunbelt based first and foremost on the welfare of the all student athletes as well as the students paying the highest student fees in the nation? Spare me the BS emphasis on "student welfare" when the JMU move had NOTHING to do with the welfare of student athletes.

I cannot stand sanctimonious, holier than thou, lying hypocrites.

Both things are true

The rule is dumb
And
JMU's response was laughable considering their 20+ year support of the rule when it didn't apply to them
11-11-2021 12:48 PM
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SEA33HAWK Online
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Post: #23
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-11-2021 12:15 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 06:42 AM)82hawk Wrote:  It isn't a dumb rule, it isn't about egos and it isn't petty. Conference championships are about more than winning the conference, they're about representation of the conference in the NCAA tournament. If a university makes a decision to move to another conference, they have that right. At that point, they are making it clear that their priorities no longer align with the CAA and they are operating in their own self interests to move on. Again, no problem with that decision. But with that decision made, they no longer represent that conference, and therefore should not have the opportunity to represent that conference in the NCAA tournament. Period.

They are prevented from playing games. They aren't prevented from earning an at large bid. They are only prevented from representing the CAA in the NCAA tournament. What's petty, childish and egotistic is the idea that a school can make moves in their own self interest, then expect a conference with nine other schools to act against their self interests. It isn't punishment to expect that the NCAA representative from the CAA is actually a representative of the CAA, anymore than to believe that JMU is punishing the CAA by leaving. Both parties are acting in their self interest. Punishment isn't part of the equation and it's childish to view it in that manner. The rule is in place for a logical and rational reason.

There is no logic or reason for this to be a rule and the most glaring part of it is the default vote by the schools. If this was UNCW during the Blizzard years or when Keatts had his run the tone would be completely different here. The CAA is not an at large bid league now and to even mention that is ridiculous . Of course JMU fans and admin look like hypocrites because they are . That is not an argument for having a rule that punishes athletes but makes old fat guys feel better about themselves .

Did JMU think of the welfare of the student athletes of the other schools that left the CAA when they voted to enforce such rules on them? He!! no they didn't. By adamantly supporting that rule for every other school that left, they are solely to blame now. There was plenty of opportunities to drop that rule for decades. Now JMU wants to change it just for their own benefit. And it's not for the student athletes. It's for recruiting purposes, which is a big reason for the rule. The schools agreed long ago that they would not allow an existing team use their post season success to recruit athletes to another conference.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2021 01:11 PM by SEA33HAWK.)
11-11-2021 01:11 PM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-11-2021 01:11 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 12:15 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 06:42 AM)82hawk Wrote:  It isn't a dumb rule, it isn't about egos and it isn't petty. Conference championships are about more than winning the conference, they're about representation of the conference in the NCAA tournament. If a university makes a decision to move to another conference, they have that right. At that point, they are making it clear that their priorities no longer align with the CAA and they are operating in their own self interests to move on. Again, no problem with that decision. But with that decision made, they no longer represent that conference, and therefore should not have the opportunity to represent that conference in the NCAA tournament. Period.

They are prevented from playing games. They aren't prevented from earning an at large bid. They are only prevented from representing the CAA in the NCAA tournament. What's petty, childish and egotistic is the idea that a school can make moves in their own self interest, then expect a conference with nine other schools to act against their self interests. It isn't punishment to expect that the NCAA representative from the CAA is actually a representative of the CAA, anymore than to believe that JMU is punishing the CAA by leaving. Both parties are acting in their self interest. Punishment isn't part of the equation and it's childish to view it in that manner. The rule is in place for a logical and rational reason.

There is no logic or reason for this to be a rule and the most glaring part of it is the default vote by the schools. If this was UNCW during the Blizzard years or when Keatts had his run the tone would be completely different here. The CAA is not an at large bid league now and to even mention that is ridiculous . Of course JMU fans and admin look like hypocrites because they are . That is not an argument for having a rule that punishes athletes but makes old fat guys feel better about themselves .

Did JMU think of the welfare of the student athletes of the other schools that left the CAA when they voted to enforce such rules on them? He!! no they didn't. By adamantly supporting that rule for every other school that left, they are solely to blame now. There was plenty of opportunities to drop that rule for decades. Now JMU wants to change it just for their own benefit. And it's not for the student athletes. It's for recruiting purposes, which is a big reason for the rule. The schools agreed long ago that they would not allow an existing team use their post season success to recruit athletes to another conference.
No doubt it is self serving for JMU to now cry wolf but here we are . Would you support dropping the rule going forward ? It is in place to punish the school leaving and does not really protect anything other than false pride .
11-11-2021 01:40 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #25
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
Let them play but double the exit fee

Id rather have the extra $$ than keep them out of Soccer or Softball/Baseball NCAA's tournaments

For M/W basketball, the CAA should want to send its best team because that is how the conference can make money

To me it would be more of a punishment for JMU to have an awesome final 4 run a la VCU and not get a dime of it as tournament shares would be paid and left to the CAA

Who wins by keeping JMU out of tournaments?
11-11-2021 02:15 PM
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Osprey#1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.
11-12-2021 07:28 AM
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Post: #27
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
11-12-2021 08:55 AM
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Post: #28
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.
11-12-2021 08:57 AM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 08:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.
The only thing I could think of would be for the other teams that play sports in the CAA is to get better and win games . This is not rocket science but admins want to control the narrative via punishment to the teams while staying above the fray. UNCW has a chance to do the write thing when this vote came up and the best they could do was vote for it ? I am not in favor of punishing the student/athlete in any way and that is all this is about at the end of the day . UNCW could be in this spot very soon .
11-12-2021 09:51 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #30
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 08:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.

Outside of football, which is not effected my the ban, i doubt any athlete will have their decision altered or affected by JMU playing in the Sunbelt instead of the CAA
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2021 09:56 AM by solohawks.)
11-12-2021 09:56 AM
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Seahawkhoops Online
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Post: #31
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 09:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.

Outside of football, which is not effected my the ban, i doubt any athlete will have their decision altered or affected by JMU playing in the Sunbelt instead of the CAA
That's not the point. Utilizing CAA championship platforms to recruit players to your school which ultimately means another conference.
11-12-2021 10:30 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 09:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.

Outside of football, which is not effected my the ban, i doubt any athlete will have their decision altered or affected by JMU playing in the Sunbelt instead of the CAA

What makes you think that? JMU recruits heavily into the Pennsylvania, NY, NJ area and generally up north. Parents and families these days travel to watch these kids in college and now the games will mostly be in the NC, SC, Ga area as opposed to PA, NY, Mass area. This change will have a massive impact on the current students playing in the SunBelt footprint vs. the CAA footprint, and on recruiting in the future.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2021 10:59 AM by 82hawk.)
11-12-2021 10:58 AM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UNCW statements on JMU hypocrites
(11-12-2021 10:30 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 09:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2021 07:28 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As many have already posted, it's incredibly disingenuous for JMU administration and staff to be acting outraged about this. They certainly knew it was going to happen. And, much as I love Mark Byington, imagine if he had mentioned to his players and recruits months ago that they would likely be ineligible for the tournament in 22 (and maybe 23)! There wouldn't be much controversy today about JMU missing the tournament because most of their top players would have entered the portal! A lot of understandable disappointment and anger in this bad situation--but JMU admins acting like their only concern is for their student-athletes is truly disgusting.

You don't actually believe that the basketball staff has or had any input into this or any other coach at JMU . This is all driven by money form the top of the athletic department and admin of the school . The people it affects the most have absolutely no voice in this at all but they suffer the consequences of an idiotic rule made before they were born . All of these people will keep their jobs and nothing will happen with them but punish the kids who play the games because we can ? This kind of childish behavior is exactly why UNCW needs to get out of the CAA . Solohawk has the right idea -hit them where it hurts if you feel like you have to kick them on the way out of the door.
While i don't disagree at all, 33 made a good point in his post which we have all overlooked. The conference doesn't want exiting teams to be able to use the conference championship platform to recruit athletes to another conference. That makes sense to me too. There has to be a better way, which can accomplish what's intended.

Outside of football, which is not effected my the ban, i doubt any athlete will have their decision altered or affected by JMU playing in the Sunbelt instead of the CAA
That's not the point. Utilizing CAA championship platforms to recruit players to your school which ultimately means another conference.

They can still finish in first place, so I am not sure what affect it has at all other than keeping them out as a rep for the NCAA tourney . That can be explained by a simple-yea the CAA was a joke and that is one of the reasons for leaving . There is not much upside for this at all other than saving face .
11-12-2021 02:51 PM
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