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If the Big East didn't die
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Milwaukee Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 03:47 AM)NothingButKnight Wrote:  Shame the Big East fell apart. I always liked its last iteration; it felt like a bunch of scrappy brands punching above their weight in football (winning a surprising amount of OOC games against the other BCS conferences) and a ridiculously deep basketball conference. Would have been great if we could have joined it. The New Big 12 feels like it'll be the spiritual successor:

WVU, Cincinnati, Pitt, Louisville, Rutgers, UCONN, USF, Syracuse (+ basketball schools)

vs

WVU, Cincinnati, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Houston, BYU, UCF

The "Big-12 2.0" won't be the spiritual success of the Big East, or the AAC, or the CUSA - - it is and will continue to be the spiritual successor of the Southwest (SWC) and Big Eight conferences, since it will have 4 former SWC and 4 former Big 8 schools.

The spiritual successor to the Big East is the ACC, with 6 former Big East schools: BC, Pitt, Syracuse, VT, Miami, & Louisville.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2021 07:49 AM by Milwaukee.)
11-11-2021 07:49 AM
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vick mike Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.
11-11-2021 07:51 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2021 08:38 AM by Frank the Tank.)
11-11-2021 08:37 AM
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GoOwls111 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

100% in agreement, Miami never intended to stay in the BIG EAST, they used the BIG EAST reputation in basketball to improve their basketball profile to the point that FSU could not oppose their entrance into the ACC!!!
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2021 08:47 AM by GoOwls111.)
11-11-2021 08:45 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If the Big East didn't die
Big East was always going to be doomed. It is ok to have a non football playing school here or there. The problem was that you had almost half the conference made up of non football schools......and the particular schools that made up that group performed pretty well in basketball, but had egos the size of blimps as well. This was never going to work because the stark difference of priorities.
11-11-2021 09:33 AM
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Post: #26
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 09:33 AM)otown Wrote:  Big East was always going to be doomed. It is ok to have a non football playing school here or there. The problem was that you had almost half the conference made up of non football schools......and the particular schools that made up that group performed pretty well in basketball, but had egos the size of blimps as well. This was never going to work because the stark difference of priorities.

This is sort of a backward understanding of what the Big East was/is to begin with - they had a football playing school here or there in a non-football conference. It was a basketball conference first that eventually wound up with a football conference stapled on to accommodate two or three members (and due to a surplus of good independents). That arrangement worked really well for about two decades, but eventually the schools they were accommodating moved on and football was cut loose when the cost/benefit to it flipped.
11-11-2021 11:35 AM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

The Big East was always a basketball first conference and that was proven from the start when Penn State wasn’t taken in. But even that move wasn’t a killer because truth be told Penn State would have moved to BigTen even if it had been in Big East earlier.

You are correct that the BE football wing was doomed once Miami left and it was only a matter of time. The big struggle was the BE not getting FSU to move into Big East that would have saved it and crippled the ACC.

In my book the Big12 is also going to be going the same way of the BE football once OU and UT leave. Yes they will have some good schools just as BE did, but no power house to prop the league, it will remain a Power league as long as the other four don’t decide to raid it as the ACC did BE because just as the old BE members did the L8 from Big12 will not say NO to any invite from the other four leagues
11-11-2021 11:45 AM
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Post: #28
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

Disagree.

If Nova had made up their mind quicker, the contract would have been signed and much of the motivation to make moves would have ended. The contract was there to be signed and if there was no delay, then there would have been no reason to not sign.
If teams didnt want to sign, then it would have exposed them before they did their behind the scenes deals. We then wouldnt have had Pitt and Cuse leading the negotiations.

We were doomed when Marinatto decided to be a blowhard and tell ESPN we were taking it to market no matter what. $13 million a year with a much higher exit fee would have slowed down expansion quickly.

The delay killed us.
11-11-2021 12:32 PM
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Z-Fly Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 07:33 AM)otown Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 05:50 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 05:16 PM)polkhigh Wrote:  I wish the Big East would've locked down Penn State and been proactive with expansion instead of reactionary.

What could have been a football conference of:

North
Boston College
UConn
Rutgers
Penn State
Syracuse
Temple

South
Pitt
WVU
Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Miami

I think the part that almost no one focuses on, the teams that left are no better for it. I 100% understand that it was a perfect situation for Cincinnati, and I am probably biased. If I just look at that list of teams though, I think their glory days all in the Big East. It's a shame. That's no exclusive to the Big East either. Nebraska to the B1G comes to mind too. They make more TV money though, so that's cool I guess.

They all had their chances. They are better off because they draw fans to the gate when big name teams come to their stadium (well, minus Miami, but that a completely different story), they get more media money, and overall financially do better. That all an administration can ask for.

As far as competitively on the field....... they have all had their chances. If Miami, Pitt, Nebraska goes to the end of the year with 1 loss, they are deep in the playoff conversation. If they go with 2 losses, good chance they are in a NY6 game. If they go with 3 losses, still have a decent shot at an NY6 or at worst a high profile non NY6 bowl. These are luxuries they cannot experience in the G5.

The problem is that they joined conferences that had that one team that owns the place. Pit and Miami really had a chance this year with Clemson being down..... but they pooped the bed. That's on them.

My point is they ALL had much more success in the BEAST, rather than wherever they ended up. That can't be a coincidence.
11-11-2021 03:49 PM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 12:32 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

Disagree.

If Nova had made up their mind quicker, the contract would have been signed and much of the motivation to make moves would have ended. The contract was there to be signed and if there was no delay, then there would have been no reason to not sign.
If teams didnt want to sign, then it would have exposed them before they did their behind the scenes deals. We then wouldnt have had Pitt and Cuse leading the negotiations.

We were doomed when Marinatto decided to be a blowhard and tell ESPN we were taking it to market no matter what. $13 million a year with a much higher exit fee would have slowed down expansion quickly.

The delay killed us.

The delay was caused by some of the same schools that ended up bailing. So not all the blame can be laid at the commish. There were schools that didn’t want a Nova football move and some of the same weren’t operating in good terms.
11-11-2021 04:50 PM
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Post: #31
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 04:50 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 12:32 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

Disagree.

If Nova had made up their mind quicker, the contract would have been signed and much of the motivation to make moves would have ended. The contract was there to be signed and if there was no delay, then there would have been no reason to not sign.
If teams didnt want to sign, then it would have exposed them before they did their behind the scenes deals. We then wouldnt have had Pitt and Cuse leading the negotiations.

We were doomed when Marinatto decided to be a blowhard and tell ESPN we were taking it to market no matter what. $13 million a year with a much higher exit fee would have slowed down expansion quickly.

The delay killed us.

The delay was caused by some of the same schools that ended up bailing. So not all the blame can be laid at the commish. There were schools that didn’t want a Nova football move and some of the same weren’t operating in good terms.

I dont lay it all on him but I do blame him for being very vocal and public in the way he went toe to toe with espn. It was the dumbest thing Ive ever seen and it didnt take long for ESPN to respond... and we all see how they responded.
11-11-2021 05:09 PM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 05:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 04:50 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 12:32 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

Disagree.

If Nova had made up their mind quicker, the contract would have been signed and much of the motivation to make moves would have ended. The contract was there to be signed and if there was no delay, then there would have been no reason to not sign.
If teams didnt want to sign, then it would have exposed them before they did their behind the scenes deals. We then wouldnt have had Pitt and Cuse leading the negotiations.

We were doomed when Marinatto decided to be a blowhard and tell ESPN we were taking it to market no matter what. $13 million a year with a much higher exit fee would have slowed down expansion quickly.

The delay killed us.

The delay was caused by some of the same schools that ended up bailing. So not all the blame can be laid at the commish. There were schools that didn’t want a Nova football move and some of the same weren’t operating in good terms.

I dont lay it all on him but I do blame him for being very vocal and public in the way he went toe to toe with espn. It was the dumbest thing Ive ever seen and it didnt take long for ESPN to respond... and we all see how they responded.

Yes but he also was pushed into going to market by the same individuals that were talking to the ACC and were voting No on Nova. Hard to keep a ship afloat when those on the ship are trying to sink it behind your back.
11-11-2021 05:14 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 11:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

The Big East was always a basketball first conference and that was proven from the start when Penn State wasn’t taken in. But even that move wasn’t a killer because truth be told Penn State would have moved to BigTen even if it had been in Big East earlier.

You are correct that the BE football wing was doomed once Miami left and it was only a matter of time. The big struggle was the BE not getting FSU to move into Big East that would have saved it and crippled the ACC.

In my book the Big12 is also going to be going the same way of the BE football once OU and UT leave. Yes they will have some good schools just as BE did, but no power house to prop the league, it will remain a Power league as long as the other four don’t decide to raid it as the ACC did BE because just as the old BE members did the L8 from Big12 will not say NO to any invite from the other four leagues

The New BXII will be a stronger football conference top to bottom(with the exception of Kansas). After the 2004 additions of UC, UL, USF and UConn (FB), Pitt and Syracuse were expected to carry the oar on the grid-iron. Syracuse was nearly as bad from 2005-2012 as UConn was in the AAC and Pitt would always crap the bed and lose to a MAC school, Youngstown State or someone else they should beat. I suspect Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU will continue to be very good and I suspect the four new schools will also be competitive.
11-11-2021 06:34 PM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 06:34 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 11:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

The Big East was always a basketball first conference and that was proven from the start when Penn State wasn’t taken in. But even that move wasn’t a killer because truth be told Penn State would have moved to BigTen even if it had been in Big East earlier.

You are correct that the BE football wing was doomed once Miami left and it was only a matter of time. The big struggle was the BE not getting FSU to move into Big East that would have saved it and crippled the ACC.

In my book the Big12 is also going to be going the same way of the BE football once OU and UT leave. Yes they will have some good schools just as BE did, but no power house to prop the league, it will remain a Power league as long as the other four don’t decide to raid it as the ACC did BE because just as the old BE members did the L8 from Big12 will not say NO to any invite from the other four leagues

The New BXII will be a stronger football conference top to bottom(with the exception of Kansas). After the 2004 additions of UC, UL, USF and UConn (FB), Pitt and Syracuse were expected to carry the oar on the grid-iron. Syracuse was nearly as bad from 2005-2012 as UConn was in the AAC and Pitt would always crap the bed and lose to a MAC school, Youngstown State or someone else they should beat. I suspect Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU will continue to be very good and I suspect the four new schools will also be competitive.

The problem with the new Big12 is the same as the Old Big East. It has nothing to do with good teams or winning bowl games. West Virginia did that for the Old Big East.
The problem is that neither league has the Big name power schools that are the anchors of every Power Conference. That eventually catches up with you. And just like in the OBE, those teams you mention OKState, Baylor would bail for the other Power 4 conferences in a heartbeat if an invite came.
The money and power doesn’t come from just winning schools but the Big National Schools. Once OU and UT leave the Big12 loses that.
11-11-2021 06:43 PM
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NBPirate Offline
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Post: #35
RE: If the Big East didn't die
The old BE and the old ACC were just good, geographically aligned conferences. TV made it all happen and then ruined it.

Miss those days.

Aside, but there was a lot of talk at Gtown during the BE split time of just deprioritizing athletics, or pursuing the Ivy.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2021 07:08 PM by NBPirate.)
11-11-2021 07:08 PM
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GoOwls111 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 06:34 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 11:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 11:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The only thing that would have saved that conference was Nova making their mind up quickly and moving up. If they had, we would have had 10 teams, including TCU and Nova. Then the TV deal would have been signed and I doubt anyone walks away.

Nova stalling helped others make their moves and by the time we added UCF, the catholic 7 were already in conversations to leave... Pitt and Cuse had already done their "et tu, Brute" routine and Notre Dame was sending out feelers to the ACC.

Literally two months made the difference. With all that said, long term, it was never going to work. The Catholic 7 were always a pain in the butt and blocked anything that the football schools wanted.

Everyone new that 12 teams would have been ideal and maximized the tv deal. They wouldnt let us go past 9 without one of their own moving up. Even TCU caused some issues. At one point we vetted Houston but that was a no go with TCU. Whole thing was a mess.

I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

The Big East was always a basketball first conference and that was proven from the start when Penn State wasn’t taken in. But even that move wasn’t a killer because truth be told Penn State would have moved to BigTen even if it had been in Big East earlier.

You are correct that the BE football wing was doomed once Miami left and it was only a matter of time. The big struggle was the BE not getting FSU to move into Big East that would have saved it and crippled the ACC.

In my book the Big12 is also going to be going the same way of the BE football once OU and UT leave. Yes they will have some good schools just as BE did, but no power house to prop the league, it will remain a Power league as long as the other four don’t decide to raid it as the ACC did BE because just as the old BE members did the L8 from Big12 will not say NO to any invite from the other four leagues

The New BXII will be a stronger football conference top to bottom(with the exception of Kansas). After the 2004 additions of UC, UL, USF and UConn (FB), Pitt and Syracuse were expected to carry the oar on the grid-iron. Syracuse was nearly as bad from 2005-2012 as UConn was in the AAC and Pitt would always crap the bed and lose to a MAC school, Youngstown State or someone else they should beat. I suspect Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU will continue to be very good and I suspect the four new schools will also be competitive.

We'll see in 2025, if I recall UC and Louisville said something very similar to that back in 2005.
11-11-2021 09:49 PM
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Knightrogen Offline
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Post: #37
RE: If the Big East didn't die
What if we have a conference like this:

UCF
USF
Miami
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Louisville
ECU
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Cincy
Temple
Tulane
Memphis

I am a basketball fan. I want Basketball first. How will this brand new Big East 3.0 look?

Yeah, I really wish the old Big East didn't die
11-24-2021 06:09 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: If the Big East didn't die
(11-11-2021 09:49 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 06:34 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 11:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-11-2021 07:51 AM)vick mike Wrote:  I disagree with your premise. It was not Nova stalling on moving up to FBS that was the problem; it was Pitt and Syracuse and WVU and Louisville realizing that they could not have their football in a conference that would include an FCS team. In other words, the idea of diluting the football with Nova pushed them out. They realized that the basketball only schools did not value football. Your take on this is simply incorrect.

It's not either of those.

None of the football schools moving had anything to do with Villanova one way or the other. It wasn't about the hybrid or anything else (and, if anything, Big East basketball was the only thing that kept schools like Syracuse around).

As soon as Miami left the Big East, any other Big East football school was going to take an invite to the ACC or any other then-AQ conference. Full stop. It took several years thereafter for it all to play out, but it was only a matter of time.

The Big East was always a basketball first conference and that was proven from the start when Penn State wasn’t taken in. But even that move wasn’t a killer because truth be told Penn State would have moved to BigTen even if it had been in Big East earlier.

You are correct that the BE football wing was doomed once Miami left and it was only a matter of time. The big struggle was the BE not getting FSU to move into Big East that would have saved it and crippled the ACC.

In my book the Big12 is also going to be going the same way of the BE football once OU and UT leave. Yes they will have some good schools just as BE did, but no power house to prop the league, it will remain a Power league as long as the other four don’t decide to raid it as the ACC did BE because just as the old BE members did the L8 from Big12 will not say NO to any invite from the other four leagues

The New BXII will be a stronger football conference top to bottom(with the exception of Kansas). After the 2004 additions of UC, UL, USF and UConn (FB), Pitt and Syracuse were expected to carry the oar on the grid-iron. Syracuse was nearly as bad from 2005-2012 as UConn was in the AAC and Pitt would always crap the bed and lose to a MAC school, Youngstown State or someone else they should beat. I suspect Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU will continue to be very good and I suspect the four new schools will also be competitive.

We'll see in 2025, if I recall UC and Louisville said something very similar to that back in 2005.

We’d just do what we did last time. Might be more selective on our invites to reduce the dead weight next time, lol.
11-24-2021 08:40 PM
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sfink16 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: If the Big East didn't die
When thinking of Thanksgiving college football, I still feel sick at the loss of the traditional Black Friday Pitt/PSU game every year. Pennsylvanians had one and only one traditional rivalry that now is diminished to signing a new contract to play against each other, and never to be around Thanksgiving.

That was a big part Big East football and what should have remained. The Lambert Trophy for the "Big of the East" title, while still unofficially recognized, will never have the meaning it once had.
11-25-2021 09:35 AM
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Knightrogen Offline
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Post: #40
RE: If the Big East didn't die
If American will still be the conference as is, this weekend and next will be huge for us. Because Cincinnati could be in the playoff.

For a Group of 5 school to be in, that will be huge. It is a shame College Athletic is all about $$. This IS a darn good conference. And we have a bright future ahead of us.

But good luck, American! Will always root for you, always!

A fan from UCF
11-27-2021 06:42 PM
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