I remember a thread where we talked about what he was going to do with all these players since he announced he only planned on playing 10.
Based on his comments we knew which 10 that was going to be.
So the speculation was about Nunez, Farah, Strothers, and Hall
He is going to redshirt all 4. That seems ambitious and I am
guessing he figures to lose some of those guys.

(11-05-2021 08:29 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I remember a thread where we talked about what he was going to do with all these players since he announced he only planned on playing 10.
Based on his comments we knew which 10 that was going to be.
So the speculation was about Nunez, Farah, Strothers, and Hall
He is going to redshirt all 4. That seems ambitious and I am
guessing he figures to lose some of those guys.

Yes. They obviously have not been performing in practice as we had hoped. So we will go to a 10 man rotation. Hard to tell from tonight's game against a D2 team that was not that good. Hope we are ready for next Friday.

(11-05-2021 08:55 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-05-2021 08:29 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I remember a thread where we talked about what he was going to do with all these players since he announced he only planned on playing 10.
Based on his comments we knew which 10 that was going to be.
So the speculation was about Nunez, Farah, Strothers, and Hall
He is going to redshirt all 4. That seems ambitious and I am
guessing he figures to lose some of those guys.

Yes. They obviously have not been performing in practice as we had hoped. So we will go to a 10 man rotation. Hard to tell from tonight's game against a D2 team that was not that good. Hope we are ready for next Friday.

Based on interviews his plan was always going to be a 10 man rotation, I didn't realize that meant a 10 man bench. The way he talked it would have to be something drastic to make him pull a redshirt

(11-05-2021 09:02 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(11-05-2021 08:55 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-05-2021 08:29 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I remember a thread where we talked about what he was going to do with all these players since he announced he only planned on playing 10.
Based on his comments we knew which 10 that was going to be.
So the speculation was about Nunez, Farah, Strothers, and Hall
He is going to redshirt all 4. That seems ambitious and I am
guessing he figures to lose some of those guys.

Yes. They obviously have not been performing in practice as we had hoped. So we will go to a 10 man rotation. Hard to tell from tonight's game against a D2 team that was not that good. Hope we are ready for next Friday.

Based on interviews his plan was always going to be a 10 man rotation, I didn't realize that meant a 10 man bench. The way he talked it would have to be something drastic to make him pull a redshirt

I meant a 10 man bench.

Going to make things interesting next year because the math doesn't add up.
So he must be assuming there will be attrition.

We lose the extra scholarships next year.
We are currently using 14, 15 next semester counting the transfer from Coastal/
3 seniors so that leaves 1 scholarship if everybody stays.

But have 3 commits for next year,
His son's friend from Morristown, Ilic (tweeted in July), he was Olivers 1st recruit.

Gregory committed in September so pretty recently.

Shaw also committed in July.
He responded to Gregory's announcement on Twitter so sounds like he is still planning on coming.

Even if Ilic is a walkon that is 1 too many.

3 freshmen got from 16 to 23 minutes in the exhibition against Catawba last night. And they were productive with 21 total points, 16 rebounds and 3 assists among them. That is extraordinary for a team trying to make a run for the top of the SoCon.

In Forbes last season 2019-2020 in the exhibition against Limestone 1 freshman got 4 minutes (Weber) and 1 freshman got 3 minutes (Monsanto). That was it. With 2 points and 0 rebounds. Monsanto then redshirted, and Weber probably should have for the sake of his own development.

In 2018-2019 in the exhibition against Southern Wesleyan, Forbes played 2 freshmen 12 minutes apiece - Daivien Williamson, who worked his way into the rotation, and Carlos Curtis who did not. Walkon Miles Rasnick got a few minutes of garbage time. They had a grand total of 7 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone not in rebuilding mode or specializing in "one and done" players making a pit stop on their way to the NBA using more freshmen with more productive minutes than Oliver did last night.

It seems to me that so far Coach Oliver is making pretty good use of the freshman class while also maximizing the chances of having a strong season this year. At the same time giving those who need it a redshirt year to develop and maximize their chances of then having the kind of successful redshirt freshman year that Damari Monsanto or Isiah Brown or Noah Gurley did, instead of wasting a year of eligibility on an unproductive season.

(11-05-2021 10:34 PM)swvabucsfan Wrote:  3 freshmen got from 16 to 23 minutes in the exhibition against Catawba last night. And they were productive with 21 total points, 16 rebounds and 3 assists among them. That is extraordinary for a team trying to make a run for the top of the SoCon.

In Forbes last season 2019-2020 in the exhibition against Limestone 1 freshman got 4 minutes (Weber) and 1 freshman got 3 minutes (Monsanto). That was it. With 2 points and 0 rebounds. Monsanto then redshirted, and Weber probably should have for the sake of his own development.

In 2018-2019 in the exhibition against Southern Wesleyan, Forbes played 2 freshmen 12 minutes apiece - Daivien Williamson, who worked his way into the rotation, and Carlos Curtis who did not. Walkon Miles Rasnick got a few minutes of garbage time. They had a grand total of 7 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone not in rebuilding mode or specializing in "one and done" players making a pit stop on their way to the NBA using more freshmen with more productive minutes than Oliver did last night.

It seems to me that so far Coach Oliver is making pretty good use of the freshman class while also maximizing the chances of having a strong season this year. At the same time giving those who need it a redshirt year to develop and maximize their chances of then having the kind of successful redshirt freshman year that Damari Monsanto or Isiah Brown or Noah Gurley did, instead of wasting a year of eligibility on an unproductive season.

Did Forbes ever have to red shirt 4 freshmen?

As everyone knows, Forbes never recruited that many freshmen to begin with! He specialized in JUCO's and transfers.

After last year's exodus, Oliver had a lot of spaces to fill. And he is trying to do it the old fashioned way - with lots of freshmen, most of whom will take time to develop.

We'll see if that works in the world of the transfer portal. Lamont Paris sneered at ETSU for doing it Forbes' way. And then did a 180 when he saw his prized recruits leaving him as soon as they attracted the interest of bigger schools. Now he's all about the transfers!

So far, Oliver just seems to be doing it the old school way. (He hasn't completely ignored transfers, or we wouldn't have King from Siena. But he has certainly brought in a lot more freshmen than we've seen in a while.)

(11-05-2021 10:57 PM)swvabucsfan Wrote:  As everyone knows, Forbes never recruited that many freshmen to begin with! He specialized in JUCO's and transfers.

After last year's exodus, Oliver had a lot of spaces to fill. And he is trying to do it the old fashioned way - with lots of freshmen, most of whom will take time to develop.

We'll see if that works in the world of the transfer portal. Lamont Paris sneered at ETSU for doing it Forbes' way. And then did a 180 when he saw his prized recruits leaving him as soon as they attracted the interest of bigger schools. Now he's all about the transfers!

So far, Oliver just seems to be doing it the old school way.

Let us hope it works. In this day and age red shirts = transfers but let us hope.

Way too many variables to draw any conclusions from this game in regards to the season.

All I got of it was.
Oliver is very committed to his plan to use 10 men to the point he didn't let the Redshirts play in an exhibition game because he only wanted the guys who were playing the regular season in there. Even with one starter out and another going down in the first half with an injury didn't alter his plans.
Of course, both of those things also contributed (along with a very weak opponent) to the inflated stats of the 3 freshmen. For example you have to figure in a regular game T. Brewer and Sloan would eat about 40 of those minutes.

I hope the bench holds being that short and he doesn't have to take off a redshirt.
But as he mentioned, injuries or a COVID outbreak could derail things in a hurry.
In theory, 10 players are more than enough, in the real world who knows.

He does need to redistribute the scholarships better. Saving 4 players for next year (whether all 4 of these guys return or some combo of returners and new recruits) is a good idea.

What I will be interested in seeing is how well Oliver can sell those 4 kids on staying the course in this age of EZ transfer portal if I don't get to play. Also if he will take a page out of the Forbes/Shay playbook and nudge or just flat kick players off the team to make room.

I don't think it is a question of will we lose some players, it is a question of how many.

It raises several interesting questions:

Can we find enough freshmen who can contribute in a big way as freshmen, so that we can contend for conference championships starting now? There's a long way to go to answer that question, but so far, we seem to have some good ones.

Secondly, if we do, can we keep them from being poached away by bigger schools or the pros, like Noah Gurley, Clay Mounce, Storm Murphy, Stefan Kenic, Greg Parham, Damari Monsanto, Kaiden Rice, the Citadel kid who left for Georgetown, etc., etc.. Each and every one of last year's 15 All-SoCon choices could have stayed for another year. But 8 chose to go!

Thirdly, will the very young men (18 and 19 year olds mostly) who need the redshirt year be patient enough to stay the course? The smart ones probably will. But it will also take the kind of Coach who can convince the young men that he has their back, that he really cares about things turning out best for them and for their families, about putting them in the best possible position to succeed. There's an old quote attributed to Theodore Roosevelt (speaking of "old school"): "They've got to know how much you care, before they care how much you know." Coach Oliver is saying a lot of the right things so far. For instance, I liked the emphasis on keeping successful older Bucs involved, like Justin Tubbs and Trazel Silvers at last night's game. What happened last year made all of this a lot harder. Building that belief is one of Coach Oliver's biggest jobs.

I was really shocked at that "4 redshirts" comment, too. Without overly repeating what others here have said, I'll just about guarantee 2-3 of those will bail. Heck, maybe sooner rather than later - like the end of this semester. But........since none of us have heard what he's told them - either during recruitment or on campus, that's just speculation, and I'm basing that on normal human reactions, wants, and desire to play the game. This is an odd year with the coronavirus impact, and not terribly likely all the youngsters will accurately, correctly calculate that into their scenarios. For that matter..............who could? It's a terrific amount of guess work. On the other, good, hand.............I at least like he's apparently been up-front and honest with those he's decided to red-shirt. That's manning up. Don't do it behind their back (figure of speech, of course) like Forbes and shay did. He's clearly made the calculation/plan/guess work that he can, if need be, 'afford' to lose the red-shirts, because he knows full well that this stance makes them be scanning the horizon for new ports. I'd bet very highly likely that he even realizes there may be a couple he'd LOVE to have next year, as freshmen, but understands *they* may not be on board with waiting another year. AND..................if he's got a good two-way conversation going with those he's chosen to red-shirt..........maybe those who want to leave will let him know early on - or maybe even already have. That allows him to have a longer planning time.

In one way this is a risky (short-term) strategy, especially if more than 1 guy goes down with an injury or whatever, but if it pays off, he'll have a very solid core coming back next year after we lose very important pieces. Another way of looking at it, and this doesn't negate the previous thing I just stated................he's simplifying his decisions, in the same way Forbes used to - but he's just doing it up front and out in the open. I don't think some outsiders grasp how hard player time management is with 12 guys - much less 14. Managing playing time with 14 would be an order of magnitude (or very close to it) harder to scheme out than with 10. Simplifies all sorts of things - and with all the new moving parts, that's a good thing in and of itself, even if some flexibility is lost.

I like Oliver's approach he seems to be upfront with the guys and at the same realistic about college basketball in the modern era. He isn't starting out the year with everybody and then springing it on them late, Hey I have decided to redshirt you or even worse, play them a few minutes in garbage time early in the season before burying them on the bench wasting a year.
This way if they do want to leave they can look around now and dip after the semester (like the guy we got from Coastal)

He must be a decent salesman, he was able to bring back a solid core of players.
He also held on to the early Shay signings (Hall and Strothers). I am assuming he saw something in the kids, it would have been easy to encourage them to look elsewhere. I was honestly surprised both came, I seem to remember one father (Strothers I think) being very upset over Shay leaving.

Nunez and Farah both seem to be pretty raw big men who could definitely benefit from a year in the weight room and practice court.

The 3 freshmen who made it into the rotation make sense, Seymour is a 2nd-year Freshmen transfer from a bigger program who got hurt, Charles was projected to go higher but was derailed by injury, Big upside. Yassar has international experience playing against grown men.

This chart seems to be pretty updated, they just haven't removed the walkon from last year Mo Schramm.
Has the 4 commits listed including the transfer.

IN 2023 I see we are recruiting Tim Smith's son Trevor and Allen Smothers younger brother.

https://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/ea...ssee-state

https://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/new...n-2021-22/

(11-19-2021 10:01 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  https://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/new...n-2021-22/

I thought about micro-guessing who's gonna leave, but that's too tough a proposition. But it might not hurt to look at the portal once in a while.
But as we both said earlier..............I do like that he's being up-front and honest about the situation.

I like Jaden and Jordan as transfers. They were spot on, can play D-1 ball and were just what we were needing. My disappointment was that we did not get a transfer who could come in and spell Silas. Charlie is just not the answer against D-1 post men and I think that will be our weakness going forward. I hope the freshmen mature into good players and do not transfer.

Bump. Just for fat-chewing reasons.