Where are we pulling the 8-hour limit from? Is it just arbitrary?

The hours of service limit for passenger-carrying drivers is 10 hours driving. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.do...To-HOS.pdf

Whether the athletic department is willing to incur the additional cost of airfare or not, the A10 is theoretically a 10 team "bus league". The MAC is maybe, maybe a 6 team league.

That said, travel makes up only a small fraction of the dept budget. The additional cost is unlikely to make or break the deal. However, it's not a terrible cover for cutting non-revenue sports that the MAC does not sponsor and/or do not aid Title IX compliance.

(11-15-2021 01:07 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  ccd494 The three you featured the most are the furthest A10 universities and most MAC teams are closer than those 3 teams.

Football travel cost will be 100k less plus we'd have 2 Million towards flights, which would be less time for the students.

We'd have football on prime time ESPN and good ESPN coverage as the A10.

It's a better long term benefit for UMass Athletics.

What is the definition of an unstable conference. One with lots of membership changes as the A10 or CUSA, both have been weaken by conference realignment.

The MAC is a very good stable conference and nice home for UMass and the ONLY conference that makes sense with football.

Yes the travel is more but time wise no for the student athletes. OOC scheduling would have to be more local to compensate for the travel as OOC schedules have a lot of travel.

Driving Distance from UMass
16 hr 47 min (1,123.8 mi) via I-90 W and I-70 W St. Louis
12 hr 38 min (796.8 mi) via I-81 S Davidson
11 hr 31 min (776.1 mi) via I-90 W Dayton
8 hr 34 min (505.8 mi) via I-95 S Richmond
8 hr 34 min (520.3 mi) via I-84 Duquesne
8 hr 31 min (505.3 mi) via I-95 S VCU

Cut off of 8 hours for a bus trip.
7 hr 6 min (411.6 mi) via I-95 S George Mason
6 hr 53 min (394.7 mi) via I-95
6 hr 19 min (405.3 mi) via I-88 W and I-86 St Bonaventure
4 hr 58 min (264.6 mi) via I-95 St Joesph
4 hr 49 min (265.1 mi) via I-95 LaSalle
2 hr 44 min (152.7 mi) via I-91 S and CT-15 S Fordham
2 hr 9 min (115.6 mi) via I-90 E Rhode Island


MAC
5 hr 40 min (379.4 mi) via I-90 W Buffalo

Cut off of beyond 8 hours for a bus trip.
8 hr 48 min (591.5 mi) via I-90 W Akron
9 hr 24 min (579.8 mi) via I-84 and I-80 W Kent State
10 hr 20 min (687.1 mi) via I-90 W Toledo
10 hr 21 min (691.8 mi) via I-90 W Boland Green
10 hr 21 min (671.9 mi) via I-90 W Eastern Michigan
11 hr 16 min (696.3 mi) via I-68 W Ohio
11 hr 35 min (744.4 mi) via I-90 W Central Michigan
12 hr 19 min (822.0 mi) via I-90 W Miami
12 hr 34 min (828.0 mi) via I-90 W Western Michigan
12 hr 41 min (828.4 mi) via I-90 W Ball State
14 hr 48 min (975.3 mi) via I-90 W Northern Illinois

If you are that determined to remain FBS, you’re probably better staying independent. There’s no support at UMass for FBS football and placing this bet into the Midwest for all sports is just one step further into insanity, fiscally and athletically.

For a conference link, the CAA just makes so much more sense once you discard the A10 for basketball (as you are for the MAC) and face reality with football. Idaho finally came to their senses and I don’t think they have lost any fans at all in the process.

We're not dropping to FCS though, so...

(11-04-2021 02:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-04-2021 12:24 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(11-04-2021 12:08 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Seems to me that UMass and CUSA could work out a deal. X number of ooc basketball games annually, rotated through the CUSA membership. Say 4. And UMass gets a football only membership.

That may not be a bad thing.

The New CUSA is shaping up to be pretty solid in basketball.

None of those 4 teams would EVER consider joining CUSA. Why would they?
How about trying to get UMass, Dayton, St. Louis and maybe VCU? Then you would have 1 school with a basketball title (UTEP) and 4 others who made the final 4 (UMass, Dayton, VCU and NMSU). Offer the 4 top attendance schools in the A10, 2 of which have lousy geography already.

(11-15-2021 03:38 PM)McKinney Wrote:  That said, travel makes up only a small fraction of the dept budget. The additional cost is unlikely to make or break the deal. However, it's not a terrible cover for cutting non-revenue sports that the MAC does not sponsor and/or do not aid Title IX compliance.

The MAC does not sponsor men's lacrosse or women's rowing. My impression is that the Atlantic 10 doesn't sponsor men's lacrosse, either. So aren't we talking about one sport here?

(I've left men's hockey out of this. Obviously that's a different kettle of fish.)

(11-15-2021 05:03 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:38 PM)McKinney Wrote:  That said, travel makes up only a small fraction of the dept budget. The additional cost is unlikely to make or break the deal. However, it's not a terrible cover for cutting non-revenue sports that the MAC does not sponsor and/or do not aid Title IX compliance.

The MAC does not sponsor men's lacrosse or women's rowing. My impression is that the Atlantic 10 doesn't sponsor men's lacrosse, either. So aren't we talking about one sport here?

(I've left men's hockey out of this. Obviously that's a different kettle of fish.)

Baseball has been rumored to be on the chopping block for years now. Joining Buffalo in the MAC in axing it might be politically doable. Men's Swim & Dive would also likely be cut (even though travel is not a concern, only two MAC schools sponsor it).

That frees up at least $850k that could offset any increase in travel.

Men's Lacrosse stays in the CAA (no travel changes). Women's rowing moves to the CAA or stays in the A10 (limited to no travel changes).

(11-15-2021 04:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  We're not dropping to FCS though, so...

It would be a blow to some egos, that’s understandable, but fact is your already playing at below average FCS levels and the MAC is hardly a huge jump above average FCS.

I just wonder if the average UMass alum or fan even thinks of the MAC as FBS. Somebody’s going to have to continue paying a lot of money to keep this boat afloat if the blinders insist on an FBS level. I think the Krafts already threw in the towel.

(11-15-2021 03:38 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Where are we pulling the 8-hour limit from? Is it just arbitrary?

The hours of service limit for passenger-carrying drivers is 10 hours driving. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.do...To-HOS.pdf

Whether the athletic department is willing to incur the additional cost of airfare or not, the A10 is theoretically a 10 team "bus league". The MAC is maybe, maybe a 6 team league.

That said, travel makes up only a small fraction of the dept budget. The additional cost is unlikely to make or break the deal. However, it's not a terrible cover for cutting non-revenue sports that the MAC does not sponsor and/or do not aid Title IX compliance.

Yes, a guess as a normal work shift is 8 hours and figured bus drivers may have limits.

(11-15-2021 05:13 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 05:03 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 03:38 PM)McKinney Wrote:  That said, travel makes up only a small fraction of the dept budget. The additional cost is unlikely to make or break the deal. However, it's not a terrible cover for cutting non-revenue sports that the MAC does not sponsor and/or do not aid Title IX compliance.

The MAC does not sponsor men's lacrosse or women's rowing. My impression is that the Atlantic 10 doesn't sponsor men's lacrosse, either. So aren't we talking about one sport here?

(I've left men's hockey out of this. Obviously that's a different kettle of fish.)

Baseball has been rumored to be on the chopping block for years now. Joining Buffalo in the MAC in axing it might be politically doable. Men's Swim & Dive would also likely be cut (even though travel is not a concern, only two MAC schools sponsor it).

That frees up at least $850k that could offset any increase in travel.

Men's Lacrosse stays in the CAA (no travel changes). Women's rowing moves to the CAA or stays in the A10 (limited to no travel changes).

This is what chaps me about the whole thing. Any solution to UMass football's incompetence is going to completely screw over the rest of their athletes.

"Hey, our football team sucks, you 20 baseball players don't get to have a program anymore because we need to bail out football by joining a midwestern conference."

"Hey, sorry 40 men's swimmers, we need to dig around for pocket lint to send our atrocious football team to Northern Illinois and Bowling Green. You guys need to seek other opportunities."

"Hey, women's lacrosse, remember how 90% of your games used to be within driving distance, and your parents could be at almost every game home or away without having to book hotels or take flights? And you didn't miss multiple days of class to play conference games? Well, I'm excited to share this literature about Muncie, Indiana with you."

It's like telling a patient that they have cancer of the gallbladder, and you're going to chop off their hands. The gallbladder will still be cancer-ridden, but you won't have to worry about hangnails anymore.

(11-15-2021 05:16 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 04:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  We're not dropping to FCS though, so...

It would be a blow to some egos, that’s understandable, but fact is your already playing at below average FCS levels and the MAC is hardly a huge jump above average FCS.

I just wonder if the average UMass alum or fan even thinks of the MAC as FBS. Somebody’s going to have to continue paying a lot of money to keep this boat afloat if the blinders insist on an FBS level. I think the Krafts already threw in the towel.

You should hope they do leave the A10 so W&M can reunite with UR. CAA ain’t what it used to be, and really neither is the A10 that UMass joined 40 years ago.

UMass was actually pretty competitive with SEC teams before their AD forced out a coach that literally won an NCAA-sanctioned National Title in his first tenure. They beat BYU a few years ago and they’re off to the P5.

People really need to stop piling on teams with poor coaching hires, otherwise kick Miami and FSU out the ACC!!!!!!

(11-15-2021 07:28 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  This is what chaps me about the whole thing. Any solution to UMass football's incompetence is going to completely screw over the rest of their athletes.

The good news (for you) is UMass administration would never be so aggressive.

As far as I'm concerned, the only mission nonrevenue sports serve is Title IX compliance. I'd run them on as close to a D-III budget as possible. Unless of course, someone wants to endow the program...

I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point is nonrevenue sports should not drive the bus in realignment.

(11-04-2021 02:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  This is what chaps me about the whole thing. Any solution to UMass football's incompetence is going to completely screw over the rest of their athletes.

You're not wrong, but it's a cold, cold world.

I said in the other thread that half the A-10 has no business fielding baseball/softball teams because the season starts in February and there's snow on the ground the first six weeks of the season. We'd be better off if the northern half of the league just dropped baseball/softball and tennis; and added men's and women's water polo to replace it. We could have a niche. There's like 40 water polo programs, if we all added it and started a conference, got an auto-bid, we'd have an elite eight team every year by default, maybe get a win before the MPSF/GCC teams smoke us.

(BTW, if you wanna talk about a dominant conference, the "old MPSF" in men's water polo was insane. You had a 9-team conference that was usually ranked 1-9, or 1-8 and 10th. One year, they went 113-3 in OOC, and only the 8th and 9th teams lost to someone outside of the conference).


EVERYONE should fund the big sports (Men's and Women's Basketball, and Football if you have it), pick one niche sport you can excel at, and simply "just have" enough of the rest to be NCAA/conference compliant.

UMass niche sport is clearly hockey. So invest in those four sports, and trim the rest to A-10 minimum required sports.

(11-15-2021 11:49 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(11-04-2021 02:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  This is what chaps me about the whole thing. Any solution to UMass football's incompetence is going to completely screw over the rest of their athletes.

You're not wrong, but it's a cold, cold world.

I said in the other thread that half the A-10 has no business fielding baseball/softball teams because the season starts in February and there's snow on the ground the first six weeks of the season. We'd be better off if the northern half of the league just dropped baseball/softball and tennis; and added men's and women's water polo to replace it. We could have a niche. There's like 40 water polo programs, if we all added it and started a conference, got an auto-bid, we'd have an elite eight team every year by default, maybe get a win before the MPSF/GCC teams smoke us.

(BTW, if you wanna talk about a dominant conference, the "old MPSF" in men's water polo was insane. You had a 9-team conference that was usually ranked 1-9, or 1-8 and 10th. One year, they went 113-3 in OOC, and only the 8th and 9th teams lost to someone outside of the conference).


EVERYONE should fund the big sports (Men's and Women's Basketball, and Football if you have it), pick one niche sport you can excel at, and simply "just have" enough of the rest to be NCAA/conference compliant.

UMass niche sport is clearly hockey. So invest in those four sports, and trim the rest to A-10 minimum required sports.

I see where you are coming from, but still, I wish you guys could save baseball. You would think it would be a huge $$$ maker in the state of Massachusetts with the popularity of the Red Sox and all. The University of Montevallo, where I graduated from, has been known for having some legendary baseball teams, and yet, the players were real down to earth, people you could strike up a conversation with.

(11-15-2021 09:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 05:16 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 04:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  We're not dropping to FCS though, so...

It would be a blow to some egos, that’s understandable, but fact is your already playing at below average FCS levels and the MAC is hardly a huge jump above average FCS.

I just wonder if the average UMass alum or fan even thinks of the MAC as FBS. Somebody’s going to have to continue paying a lot of money to keep this boat afloat if the blinders insist on an FBS level. I think the Krafts already threw in the towel.

You should hope they do leave the A10 so W&M can reunite with UR. CAA ain’t what it used to be, and really neither is the A10 that UMass joined 40 years ago.

UMass was actually pretty competitive with SEC teams before their AD forced out a coach that literally won an NCAA-sanctioned National Title in his first tenure. They beat BYU a few years ago and they’re off to the P5.

People really need to stop piling on teams with poor coaching hires, otherwise kick Miami and FSU out the ACC!!!!!!

I’m not saying the CAA would take them or invite them, only the logic as a home for UMass athletics. It takes fans to support FBS football. UMass just doesn’t have near enough.

On the A10, that’s a basketball league. Football is the driver at W&M in money, donations, interest, etc. They aren’t going to shelve that to join a basketball centric conference.

(11-15-2021 10:58 PM)McKinney Wrote:  I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but my point is nonrevenue sports should not drive the bus in realignment.

I agree that non revenue sports don't drive the bus, but I find that antithetical to the fact that these are supposedly educational institutions that are supposed to provide enriching undergraduate experiences to all of its students.

It seems like the end result of a lot of conference shuffling is:

1. Move to a more inconvenient conference to benefit our football team!
2. Make more money from TV rights!
3. Pay higher salaries to our administrators!
4. Lose more games!
5. Make the experience worse for our other athletes!
6. Play teams our fans don't care about!

At some point someone has to step in and point out that the only people benefitting are school/conference/NCAA officials and TV executives.

…and UMass made their choice by moving up for FBS football. They’ve been trying to do it for 30 years. Actually, I recall reading about a conference idea in the 60’s or 70’s with Villanova, UConn, Buffalo, Rutgers, Holy Cross, Temple, and Boston U that would have played at the major level.

(11-15-2021 09:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 05:16 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(11-15-2021 04:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  We're not dropping to FCS though, so...

It would be a blow to some egos, that’s understandable, but fact is your already playing at below average FCS levels and the MAC is hardly a huge jump above average FCS.

I just wonder if the average UMass alum or fan even thinks of the MAC as FBS. Somebody’s going to have to continue paying a lot of money to keep this boat afloat if the blinders insist on an FBS level. I think the Krafts already threw in the towel.

You should hope they do leave the A10 so W&M can reunite with UR. CAA ain’t what it used to be, and really neither is the A10 that UMass joined 40 years ago.

UMass was actually pretty competitive with SEC teams before their AD forced out a coach that literally won an NCAA-sanctioned National Title in his first tenure. They beat BYU a few years ago and they’re off to the P5.

People really need to stop piling on teams with poor coaching hires, otherwise kick Miami and FSU out the ACC!!!!!!

The young coaching stuff was a bust. Do want to note we also beat Appalachia State at home along with Georgia Southern.

(11-16-2021 10:20 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  It seems like the end result of a lot of conference shuffling is:

1. Move to a more inconvenient conference to benefit our football team!
2. Make more money from TV rights!
3. Pay higher salaries to our administrators!
4. Lose more games!
5. Make the experience worse for our other athletes!
6. Play teams our fans don't care about!

At some point someone has to step in and point out that the only people benefitting are school/conference/NCAA officials and TV executives.

• The move to FBS has set up financial sustainability for football. A move to the MAC improves on that effort.
• UMass would have the best-resourced basketball teams in the MAC. Something they're unable to do in the A-10.
• The only team fans really care about in the A-10 is URI. Ranked teams at the top of the conference are also intriguing opponents. But URI is the only opponent that I know of that UMass fans want to see whether each team is good or bad. It's imperative that we continue playing them in nonconference. Maybe even home & home in nonconference if it will fit.
• I think the MAC would be smart to offer a lifeboat to any A-10 team (but especially URI) in the event of another Big East raid.
  

I want to be clear that I was never a MAC guy. I'm a football-first sports fan, but a basketball-first UMass fan. So moving basketball into an "inferior" conference is something I've struggled with. That said, it's become clear to me that UMass is at an existential crossroads with football. Given the opportunity (especially paired with WKU) I think a move to the MAC would be for the best.

(11-16-2021 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I see where you are coming from, but still, I wish you guys could save baseball. You would think it would be a huge $$$ maker in the state of Massachusetts with the popularity of the Red Sox and all. The University of Montevallo, where I graduated from, has been known for having some legendary baseball teams, and yet, the players were real down to earth, people you could strike up a conversation with.

Oh, I'm just spitballing as an A-10 fan who wants the league to get better at basketball (Ironically, basketball is actually my least favorite big five sport as a sport; but college basketball is by far my favorite sport season, if that makes sense).

There's no plans for anyone but LaSalle to drop baseball. But it would make sense.

Baseball is popular in the A-10 footprint. But the calendar is unfriendly. The Red Sox, Cardinals, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Pirates, Reds, Nationals are in Florida for SIX MORE WEEKS while the colleges in those city start their seasons.

It's a 56-game college season starting around Valentine's day. UMass has played over 50 baseball games in one year only four times since 1953. The A-10 fans joke that St. Bonaventure is in the Himilayas, and you need snow shoes to get there. The first nice weather we get is late April. It's snowed on Mother's Day before.

Because of this, there's just no way you can compete nationally in that sport with the West Coast/South, where they can practice outside before the season starts. And the expense of playing road games for the first six weeks of the season... what's the point?

The A-10 baseball teams north of Richmond are 4-26 in the NCAA Tournament. We're basically 2 and 'Cue every year. 21st in RPI last season, I think we've gotten one at-large ever? And it was from when a southern school joined the A-10 and was still good before their recruiting went downhill.

Why spend $1.5 million on programs that are guaranteed to suck? Let VCU, Richmond and Davidson be affiliate members of Conference USA or something, and then rest of us can fund our other sports better.