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Really don't know the best option for us
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mjs Offline
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Post: #1
Really don't know the best option for us
Atlantic Sun just lost 2 teams
Ohio Valley lost 2 recently and may lose Murray State
Summit Conference so far is stable
Conference USA may want to add numbers, but maybe not non-football schools.

Even without WKU and MTSU, CUSA would still likely be the best option for us.
MoValley- just don't see it happening, but you can always hope.
Ohio Valley might be the best fit geographically.
Atlantic Sun would give us a strong natural rival in UCA.
Summit has a couple of teams, just like us (UMKC and Nebraska-Omaha) and a good rival in ORU, but having to go to the Dakotas seems crazy.
11-02-2021 12:42 AM
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PTJR Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-02-2021 12:42 AM)mjs Wrote:  Atlantic Sun just lost 2 teams
Ohio Valley lost 2 recently and may lose Murray State
Summit Conference so far is stable
Conference USA may want to add numbers, but maybe not non-football schools.

Even without WKU and MTSU, CUSA would still likely be the best option for us.
MoValley- just don't see it happening, but you can always hope.
Ohio Valley might be the best fit geographically.
Atlantic Sun would give us a strong natural rival in UCA.
Summit has a couple of teams, just like us (UMKC and Nebraska-Omaha) and a good rival in ORU, but having to go to the Dakotas seems crazy.

I must have missed something. What two teams did the Atlantic Sun lose?
11-02-2021 09:08 AM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-02-2021 09:08 AM)PTJR Wrote:  
(11-02-2021 12:42 AM)mjs Wrote:  Atlantic Sun just lost 2 teams
Ohio Valley lost 2 recently and may lose Murray State
Summit Conference so far is stable
Conference USA may want to add numbers, but maybe not non-football schools.

Even without WKU and MTSU, CUSA would still likely be the best option for us.
MoValley- just don't see it happening, but you can always hope.
Ohio Valley might be the best fit geographically.
Atlantic Sun would give us a strong natural rival in UCA.
Summit has a couple of teams, just like us (UMKC and Nebraska-Omaha) and a good rival in ORU, but having to go to the Dakotas seems crazy.

I must have missed something. What two teams did the Atlantic Sun lose?

Rumor is that they are losing Liberty and Jacksonville State to CUSA. Losing Liberty makes the ASUN more attractive to me (you have documented the problems they present), although Jacksonville State would have been a good geographic rival for us.
11-02-2021 10:50 AM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
When we look at our options, I am pretty confident that the depleted Southland (they are likely to lose more schools to the WAC who is losing schools to CUSA) and Ohio Valley would love to have us if they are "save-able". I would think the Summit would be happy to have us. I believe the ASUN would be very open to taking us.

I wouldn't rule the MoValley out, but I think our chances there are not great. If rumors are true, CUSA will likely survive. No idea if they would take a non-football school and not sure we want to be in the same position we are in now (non-football school in a football conference). If the idea of balancing a football-only school with a non-football school is workable, I believe UMass would like to join CUSA for football only and UConn might consider it.

So I believe these are our possible options at the moment. I saw one national writer predict we would go to the Southern Conference. Good conference, but I think it is too far out of our "footprint".
11-02-2021 11:03 AM
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PTJR Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-02-2021 11:03 AM)mjs Wrote:  When we look at our options, I am pretty confident that the depleted Southland (they are likely to lose more schools to the WAC who is losing schools to CUSA) and Ohio Valley would love to have us if they are "save-able". I would think the Summit would be happy to have us. I believe the ASUN would be very open to taking us.

I wouldn't rule the MoValley out, but I think our chances there are not great. If rumors are true, CUSA will likely survive. No idea if they would take a non-football school and not sure we want to be in the same position we are in now (non-football school in a football conference). If the idea of balancing a football-only school with a non-football school is workable, I believe UMass would like to join CUSA for football only and UConn might consider it.

So I believe these are our possible options at the moment. I saw one national writer predict we would go to the Southern Conference. Good conference, but I think it is too far out of our "footprint".

I think you have given the options, that look like they might exist today anyway, quite well. I think our clear #1 choice would be to stay as a member of the Sun Belt, but if that is not a viable option, then:

1) Missouri Valley is still my first choice. Basketball centric, well established, and fantastic conference tourney- Arch Madness.

2) ASun. Assuming Liberty departs, etc. Ready travel/rival partner with UCA already in place. Although football involved, with Lipscomb and Bellarmine in the mix, along with the four basketball only schools in Florida, basketball would be no worse than an equal sport, if not dominant.

3) CUSA- only if WKU and MTSU remain. As you point out, this might be dicey by putting us back in a football first conference. And it would be seriously spread out- Lynchburg, VA - Miami - El Paso & NMSU. That said though, it would be a pretty strong basketball league!

4) 5) 6) In no particular order as they would all be kind of desperation last resort deals. Summit, OVC, Southland. The Summit is the only relatively stable outfit of the three, but also very spread out, and playing against the Dakota schools has no appeal to me. The OVC and the Southland: not as bad geographically maybe, but what’s left not very attractive. And the future for both of these leagues looks shaky at best.

Some writer suggesting the Southern Conference for us is just throwing stuff out there based on nothing. I don’t see any way that happens any more than us replacing James Madison in the CAA.
11-02-2021 01:52 PM
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MICHAELSPAPPY Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Really don't know the best option for us
I'm going with the Summit. Basketball oriented, and stable. At the moment, those are the most compelling factors to me. With every conference scrambling to survive, more and more of them are going to be stretched out geographically. Money, and not reason, is the driving factor these days.

Obviously, the Valley would be my preference, but I don't think that is a realistic wish.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2021 02:12 PM by MICHAELSPAPPY.)
11-02-2021 01:59 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-02-2021 01:59 PM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  I'm going with the Summit. Basketball oriented, and stable. At the moment, those are the most compelling factors to me. With every conference scrambling to survive, more and more of them are going to be stretched out geographically. Money, and not reason, is the driving factor these days.

Obviously, the Valley would be my preference, but I don't think that is a realistic wish.

The Summit has 4 schools within an 8 hour drive. Denver is a direct flight. Those are fine. But 4 teams in the Dakotas and one in Minnesota are killers travel-wise. Add UTA and the league becomes somewhat more palatable.

Also while they have been quite stable, rumors have CUSA looking at one or two of the Dakota teams. Actually, them taking a couple of Dakota teams might actually make the Summit more attractive since there would be less travel. However, some have suggested that CUSA should take them as "football" only, so it's really hard to know how things will look in a couple of weeks.
11-02-2021 02:48 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-02-2021 01:52 PM)PTJR Wrote:  
(11-02-2021 11:03 AM)mjs Wrote:  When we look at our options, I am pretty confident that the depleted Southland (they are likely to lose more schools to the WAC who is losing schools to CUSA) and Ohio Valley would love to have us if they are "save-able". I would think the Summit would be happy to have us. I believe the ASUN would be very open to taking us.

I wouldn't rule the MoValley out, but I think our chances there are not great. If rumors are true, CUSA will likely survive. No idea if they would take a non-football school and not sure we want to be in the same position we are in now (non-football school in a football conference). If the idea of balancing a football-only school with a non-football school is workable, I believe UMass would like to join CUSA for football only and UConn might consider it.

So I believe these are our possible options at the moment. I saw one national writer predict we would go to the Southern Conference. Good conference, but I think it is too far out of our "footprint".

I think you have given the options, that look like they might exist today anyway, quite well. I think our clear #1 choice would be to stay as a member of the Sun Belt, but if that is not a viable option, then:

1) Missouri Valley is still my first choice. Basketball centric, well established, and fantastic conference tourney- Arch Madness.

2) ASun. Assuming Liberty departs, etc. Ready travel/rival partner with UCA already in place. Although football involved, with Lipscomb and Bellarmine in the mix, along with the four basketball only schools in Florida, basketball would be no worse than an equal sport, if not dominant.

3) CUSA- only if WKU and MTSU remain. As you point out, this might be dicey by putting us back in a football first conference. And it would be seriously spread out- Lynchburg, VA - Miami - El Paso & NMSU. That said though, it would be a pretty strong basketball league!

4) 5) 6) In no particular order as they would all be kind of desperation last resort deals. Summit, OVC, Southland. The Summit is the only relatively stable outfit of the three, but also very spread out, and playing against the Dakota schools has no appeal to me. The OVC and the Southland: not as bad geographically maybe, but what’s left not very attractive. And the future for both of these leagues looks shaky at best.

Some writer suggesting the Southern Conference for us is just throwing stuff out there based on nothing. I don’t see any way that happens any more than us replacing James Madison in the CAA.

I agree that the "new" CUSA could be a good basketball league. Still travel to New Mexico, Miami, Virginia, etc. would be crazy. At least in the Summit you have nice travel partners with 2 teams in each of the Dakotas. But, who knows how CUSA will look when they finish. They may want to fill in with some non-football schools like LR, UTA, and ORU for travel purposes.
11-02-2021 02:55 PM
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ez272 Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.
11-10-2021 12:17 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

There is no way the Sun Belt was ask us for exit fees. They are "asking" us to leave, so they would not be that obnoxious. What share of exit fees would be collect since no one is voluntarily leaving the Belt.
11-10-2021 01:30 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
Looking at a map, we would be a perfect travel partner for LaTech and UTA would be a perfect travel partner for Sam Houston State. You would think CUSA would be looking for ways to make travel easier for Olympic sports. You already have good travel partners with MTSU/WKU and NMST/UTEP. They could add FGCU to pair with FIU. That just leaves Liberty and Jacksonville State. Still have no idea if CUSA would add non-football schools, but it appears to be a reasonable option for them especially if they want to add UConn or UMass as football only. While those 2 schools are terrible in football, they are well-recognized schools that would possibly add TV eyeballs in the northeast.
11-10-2021 01:42 PM
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ez272 Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 01:30 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

There is no way the Sun Belt was ask us for exit fees. They are "asking" us to leave, so they would not be that obnoxious. What share of exit fees would be collect since no one is voluntarily leaving the Belt.

LOL, I need to quit drinking so early. I had just read about Middle maybe staying in CUSA in order to collect exit fees. I thought that's a good question for us, but we aren't in CUSA. All this conference talk is confusing. Got my conferences mixed up. Forget what I said, except about not paying an exit fee, when and if we leave the SBC. Hope we hear something soon.
11-10-2021 01:51 PM
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ez272 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 01:42 PM)mjs Wrote:  Looking at a map, we would be a perfect travel partner for LaTech and UTA would be a perfect travel partner for Sam Houston State. You would think CUSA would be looking for ways to make travel easier for Olympic sports. You already have good travel partners with MTSU/WKU and NMST/UTEP. They could add FGCU to pair with FIU. That just leaves Liberty and Jacksonville State. Still have no idea if CUSA would add non-football schools, but it appears to be a reasonable option for them especially if they want to add UConn or UMass as football only. While those 2 schools are terrible in football, they are well-recognized schools that would possibly add TV eyeballs in the northeast.

I haven't ruled out the Valley for us. That is where we should go. cUSA second choice. We have decent facilities with the exception of baseball. We have great academics with the majority of our athletes graduating. Arkansas is not a huge market for mid-major sports. But it is a foot in the door as far as recruiting goes for schools in our geographic area. Middle Tennessee did pretty good recruiting Arkansas when they were in the SBC.
11-10-2021 02:09 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
Interesting that WKU apparently wants to go to the MAC without MTSU. The hold up is with the MAC Presidents. If this is true, I would argue that the MAC should go to 13 teams and take their time to get #14. I think WKU is a good get for any midmajor conference, purely based on their basketball history. I believe their football has been decent to relatively good in recent years.
11-10-2021 03:00 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

No exit fees. Keep in mind the SBC is not "booting" you. Its going to be an agreement between both sides that they are moving in different directions, and the departure will be amicable so you guys can continue to maintain a relationship with SBC Schools for OOC games.
11-10-2021 09:51 PM
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PTJR Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 09:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

No exit fees. Keep in mind the SBC is not "booting" you. Its going to be an agreement between both sides that they are moving in different directions, and the departure will be amicable so you guys can continue to maintain a relationship with SBC Schools for OOC games.

So, I guess I didn’t understand the situation. If we are not being “booted out”, I guess we just stay as long as we like, huh!
11-10-2021 11:33 PM
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ez272 Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-10-2021 09:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

No exit fees. Keep in mind the SBC is not "booting" you. Its going to be an agreement between both sides that they are moving in different directions, and the departure will be amicable so you guys can continue to maintain a relationship with SBC Schools for OOC games.

I hope LR and asu continue to play no matter where we all wind up. Amicable is a term I would use loosely since Mohajir never liked us and probably never supported us in the SBC meetings.
11-11-2021 11:47 AM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
From one Trojan to another I'm going to miss you. Especially the games between our Lady Trojans in basketball.
11-11-2021 11:58 AM
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mjs Offline
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RE: Really don't know the best option for us
(11-11-2021 11:47 AM)ez272 Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 09:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(11-10-2021 12:17 PM)ez272 Wrote:  I wonder what the timeline is for paying the SBC exit fees. When would those fees be paid out to the remaining member institutions? Is staying where we are for now in order to collect our share of the exit fees a viable option? Or do we jump ship at the first opportunity?

As a 30-year member of the SBC, an unwelcome member at that, I would try and challenge the exit fee should the SBC try and extort it from us.

No exit fees. Keep in mind the SBC is not "booting" you. Its going to be an agreement between both sides that they are moving in different directions, and the departure will be amicable so you guys can continue to maintain a relationship with SBC Schools for OOC games.

I hope LR and asu continue to play no matter where we all wind up. Amicable is a term I would use loosely since Mohajir never liked us and probably never supported us in the SBC meetings.

It would be silly not to play if for no reason other than the financial benefits. I have little doubt we would continue to play, unless some major personality clash occurs between coaches. If we end up somewhere other than the Atlantic Sun, I'd love to see a 4 team holiday tournament at Simmons Bank Arena with LR, UAF, UCA, and ASU. If a major sponsor joins in, it would be a great event for Little Rock and the entire State. While UAF no longer has a problem with playing everyone, they may be less inclined to do it now that they are selling out Bud Walton again. An $80 2 day ticket would bring in about 1.5 million and I would be fine with the hogs taking 3/4 of it and the other 3 schools splitting 300K or so. Probably never happen, but it would be a great yearly event.
11-11-2021 12:09 PM
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