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ACC Attendance Observations
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #1
ACC Attendance Observations
I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.
11-01-2021 07:06 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 07:06 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.

Of all of the stupid COVID rules....this one takes the cake!
11-01-2021 07:12 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:06 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.

Of all of the stupid COVID rules....this one takes the cake!

Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!
11-01-2021 09:15 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
Georgia Tech fans are distributed regionally and nationally. There's only so many nuclear engineers that are needed in metropolitan Atlanta for example. As a result when GT fans have had enough and stop attending to force the GTAA's hand on staff changes, the results can be dramatic. I was at the NIU home opener and felt the fan base massively lurch away from Collins. They had about 40k for that NIU game. For Virginia Tech last weekend ... if you remove the Hokie fans in the stands they may have had 15-20k in attendance. Shy of beating UGAg, I think Collins will be forced to make staff changes this offseason. If he doesn't, he'll enter next season with a fan base with a bad attitude problem on his case from the jump in front of mostly empty stands.
11-01-2021 09:38 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 09:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:06 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.

Of all of the stupid COVID rules....this one takes the cake!

Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!

They are filming a new movie in Syracuse,

"Two Touchdowns in Two Minutes"

A new horror film set in the foothills of SW Virginia. It only happens once every 12 years due to scheduling limitations. 03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021 10:05 AM by TexanMark.)
11-01-2021 10:00 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 09:38 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Georgia Tech fans are distributed regionally and nationally. There's only so many nuclear engineers that are needed in metropolitan Atlanta for example. As a result when GT fans have had enough and stop attending to force the GTAA's hand on staff changes, the results can be dramatic. I was at the NIU home opener and felt the fan base massively lurch away from Collins. They had about 40k for that NIU game. For Virginia Tech last weekend ... if you remove the Hokie fans in the stands they may have had 15-20k in attendance. Shy of beating UGAg, I think Collins will be forced to make staff changes this offseason. If he doesn't, he'll enter next season with a fan base with a bad attitude problem on his case from the jump in front of mostly empty stands.

At least you played someone who traveled. We had BC last weekend...how a P5 program can only travel 100 fans to game that is their closest rival is amazingly mid majorish
11-01-2021 10:04 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #7
RE: ACC Attendance Observations
The Coastal is tightly packed with the exception of Miami making travel more amenable than travel through the Atlantic.

The actual destination also has something to do with the decision to travel. I nor anyone in the extended family have a desire to be in Upstate NY or Boston or Louisville in November. Conversely they do not want to be in Atlanta, Clemson, or Charlotte in late August or early September.

Now ask yourself this, if you are a BC fan and live outside Upstate NY, why would come to Syracuse on October 30th?

People just do not travel to "bum uck" without a compelling reason. Snow, fall leaves, cool weather, beaches, lakes, strip clubs, bars, etc., - these are some reasons for travel. A relatively isolated location that is not a major destination is not compelling.

There is no compelling reason for instance for anyone to travel to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. No amusement parks, no mountains, no coast. No crazy night life. Just an ocean of upper middle class suburbia that stretches' as far as the eye can see. Folks move to the Triangle, they do not visit.

Everyone should go to Clemson at least once, but how many times do you need to go? Everyone should go to the Fingers Lakes part of NY but how many times do you need to go and when.

If you want NC State fans to travel you have to make sure they can park a $20,000 gas grill and have a set up for 6-8. Then you have to avoid the Labor Day weekend when they will be at their beach or lake house and then you have to avoid November when God forbid a drop of rain might solidify into ice or snow.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021 10:26 AM by Statefan.)
11-01-2021 10:18 AM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
Social and economic gentrification play a roll now in fan travel at a number of ACC schools. When the event was the most important event of the year the event sold the travel. Now the travel has to fit the profile of the travelers.

I love Boston, but I'm not going to Boston for a cold rain. Snow is great. I also have to have acceptable accommodations downtown near the train that runs out to Chestnut Hill since it easier to drive in the North End than it is to park a SUV in Chestnut Hill. The time to be in Syracuse is the summer unless for some reason you are coming from or going to Niagara Falls or Toronto, or Montreal then it's okay for a detour.

Face it, the Coastal got three of the four fun towns.

Here is my list of ACC towns by potential fun index of the actual destination:

1. Miami
2. BC
3. Atlanta
4. Pittsburg

Massive Drop Off

5. Louisville
6. Tallahassee - Only because the Gulf Coast is an hour away
7. Raleigh

Another Big Drop Off

8. Chapel Hill
9. Clemson
10. Blacksburg
11. Charlottesville
12. Syracuse
13. Winston Salem
14. Durham

But I am biased. 03-shhhh

This is why I look upon Tulane, TCU, Navy, and Cincy with some favor. Something to do once you get there.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021 10:44 AM by Statefan.)
11-01-2021 10:31 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 10:18 AM)Statefan Wrote:  The Coastal is tightly packed with the exception of Miami making travel more amenable than travel through the Atlantic.

The actual destination also has something to do with the decision to travel. I nor anyone in the extended family have a desire to be in Upstate NY or Boston or Louisville in November. Conversely they do not want to be in Atlanta, Clemson, or Charlotte in late August or early September.

Now ask yourself this, if you are a BC fan and live outside Upstate NY, why would come to Syracuse on October 30th?

People just do not travel to "bum uck" without a compelling reason. Snow, fall leaves, cool weather, beaches, lakes, strip clubs, bars, etc., - these are some reasons for travel. A relatively isolated location that is not a major destination is not compelling.

There is no compelling reason for instance for anyone to travel to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. No amusement parks, no mountains, no coast. No crazy night life. Just an ocean of upper middle class suburbia that stretches' as far as the eye can see. Folks move to the Triangle, they do not visit.

Everyone should go to Clemson at least once, but how many times do you need to go? Everyone should go to the Fingers Lakes part of NY but how many times do you need to go and when.

If you want NC State fans to travel you have to make sure they can park a $20,000 gas grill and have a set up for 6-8. Then you have to avoid the Labor Day weekend when they will be at their beach or lake house and then you have to avoid November when God forbid a drop of rain might solidify into ice or snow.

If Syracuse would simply relocate its campus to either NY City or Buffalo*, they'd get a lot more visiting fans. OTOH, they could just bring 40,000 of their own fans...

__________
* Niagara Falls is the attraction, in case you wondered.
11-01-2021 01:11 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 09:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!

Syracuse 41, Virginia Tech 36
11-01-2021 01:27 PM
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 09:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:06 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.

Of all of the stupid COVID rules....this one takes the cake!

Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!

Mark,

You forced me to remind you of this oldie but Goody.





You didnt know! Its not your fault!
11-01-2021 02:04 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 10:18 AM)Statefan Wrote:  The Coastal is tightly packed with the exception of Miami making travel more amenable than travel through the Atlantic.

The actual destination also has something to do with the decision to travel. I nor anyone in the extended family have a desire to be in Upstate NY or Boston or Louisville in November. Conversely they do not want to be in Atlanta, Clemson, or Charlotte in late August or early September.

Now ask yourself this, if you are a BC fan and live outside Upstate NY, why would come to Syracuse on October 30th?

People just do not travel to "bum uck" without a compelling reason. Snow, fall leaves, cool weather, beaches, lakes, strip clubs, bars, etc., - these are some reasons for travel. A relatively isolated location that is not a major destination is not compelling.

There is no compelling reason for instance for anyone to travel to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. No amusement parks, no mountains, no coast. No crazy night life. Just an ocean of upper middle class suburbia that stretches' as far as the eye can see. Folks move to the Triangle, they do not visit.

Everyone should go to Clemson at least once, but how many times do you need to go? Everyone should go to the Fingers Lakes part of NY but how many times do you need to go and when.

If you want NC State fans to travel you have to make sure they can park a $20,000 gas grill and have a set up for 6-8. Then you have to avoid the Labor Day weekend when they will be at their beach or lake house and then you have to avoid November when God forbid a drop of rain might solidify into ice or snow.

Well the leaves are at peak, we are near several destinations for side trips (Cooperstown, Finger Lakes, Saratoga, two large casinos) and not mention world class salmon fishing 30 mins away.

I've explained to SU they really need to cater to RV'ers. They have a perfect spot to put in 20 pull thrus.
11-01-2021 03:39 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
For a frame of reference, I pulled this from another board and this guy usually is pretty spot on with his numbers for "announced" attendance. This is as of 10/28/21:

ACC
13. Clemson (3) - 79,756
24. Virginia Tech (6) - 59,062
25. Florida State (5) - 57,600
30. NC State (4) - 54,384
38. North Carolina (5) - 48,423
44. Pittsburgh (4) - 45,927
48. Miami (5) - 43,377
50. Virginia (5) - 40,409
53. Louisville (4) - 39,304
54. Boston College (3) - 37,947
61. Georgia Tech (4) - 35,670
62. Syracuse (5) - 33,453
74. Wake Forest (4) - 26,553
114. Duke (4) - 15,348

The Duke and WF numbers stand out to me. Is there some COVID restrictions/protocol going on at those campuses? I realize Wake's attendance is near capacity, but they are having a historic season by their standards.
11-01-2021 03:40 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 03:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 10:18 AM)Statefan Wrote:  The Coastal is tightly packed with the exception of Miami making travel more amenable than travel through the Atlantic.

The actual destination also has something to do with the decision to travel. I nor anyone in the extended family have a desire to be in Upstate NY or Boston or Louisville in November. Conversely they do not want to be in Atlanta, Clemson, or Charlotte in late August or early September.

Now ask yourself this, if you are a BC fan and live outside Upstate NY, why would come to Syracuse on October 30th?

People just do not travel to "bum uck" without a compelling reason. Snow, fall leaves, cool weather, beaches, lakes, strip clubs, bars, etc., - these are some reasons for travel. A relatively isolated location that is not a major destination is not compelling.

There is no compelling reason for instance for anyone to travel to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. No amusement parks, no mountains, no coast. No crazy night life. Just an ocean of upper middle class suburbia that stretches' as far as the eye can see. Folks move to the Triangle, they do not visit.

Everyone should go to Clemson at least once, but how many times do you need to go? Everyone should go to the Fingers Lakes part of NY but how many times do you need to go and when.

If you want NC State fans to travel you have to make sure they can park a $20,000 gas grill and have a set up for 6-8. Then you have to avoid the Labor Day weekend when they will be at their beach or lake house and then you have to avoid November when God forbid a drop of rain might solidify into ice or snow.

Well the leaves are at peak, we are near several destinations for side trips (Cooperstown, Finger Lakes, Saratoga, two large casinos) and not mention world class salmon fishing 30 mins away.

I've explained to SU they really need to cater to RV'ers. They have a perfect spot to put in 20 pull thrus.

Your leaves may be at peak now, but those in the NC and Va mountains are past peak and they are not as far away. Cherokee NC is always open for business and fishin' fools have the Blue Ridge streams. I will admit Syracuse is nice than folks generally give it credit for, but it's not nice enough for a 15 hour road trip there and 15 hours back. So you have to fly it.

Winter weather getting to Syracuse is a concern for most "flatlanders" from south of DC and who live below 2000' elevation. I used to live between Boone and Blacksburg for 10 years. Ice was a regular thing and it scares flatlanders.
11-01-2021 04:15 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 03:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  For a frame of reference, I pulled this from another board and this guy usually is pretty spot on with his numbers for "announced" attendance. This is as of 10/28/21:

ACC
13. Clemson (3) - 79,756
24. Virginia Tech (6) - 59,062
25. Florida State (5) - 57,600
30. NC State (4) - 54,384
38. North Carolina (5) - 48,423
44. Pittsburgh (4) - 45,927
48. Miami (5) - 43,377
50. Virginia (5) - 40,409
53. Louisville (4) - 39,304
54. Boston College (3) - 37,947
61. Georgia Tech (4) - 35,670
62. Syracuse (5) - 33,453
74. Wake Forest (4) - 26,553
114. Duke (4) - 15,348

The Duke and WF numbers stand out to me. Is there some COVID restrictions/protocol going on at those campuses? I realize Wake's attendance is near capacity, but they are having a historic season by their standards.

Clif, most of WF's ticket holders in the Triad area are doctors and other medical folks.

ODU and Norfolk State bring no fans. FSU had their season torpedoed before the WF game. Actually getting from Louisville to WS involves a drive unless you can expertly negotiate the airport in Greensboro.

NC State will always put the most traveling fans in their seats closely followed by Clemson, VT, and App State. UNC and UVa will come to Winston if their teams are decent.

WF is where many parents take their children for their first away game because everything is manageable.

You can now get Moravian Cookies anywhere so the only thing you can get in the Winston area that is different is Lexington Style BBQ. Then you have to make sure you are not competing with the Dixie Classic Fair.

Now the Fair was in town for Louisville so parking and hotels would have been an issue not to mention in addition to Covid.

In regards to attendance versus capacity Clemson is at 98% followed by UNC at 97%, of course Memorial seats 81.5K and Kenan seats 50K.

NC State is at 94% while VT is at 89% despite the raucous game with UNC. Wake is at 84%, FSU is at 72% and UVa and Louisville are both at 65%. Duke is a miserable 38%.

A few years ago UNC did away with 13K seats. Clemson could sustain 85K but 81.5 keeps things taught. Doak is overbuilt by at least 8K seats and FSU has not been able to fill the last 10% for a long time. Wallace Wade should seat no more than 25K but seats 40K only for collecting a gate from UNC, NC State, Clemson, and sometimes a traveling Big 10 or SEC school like Alabama a few years ago. NC State should have about 65K seats since 55K will show up to watch State play the worst dog from nowhere state technical college. UVa is now overbuilt and probably needs only 55K.

Both BC and Syracuse are in niche situations and Pitt and Miami don't really count although from all results both could easily get by with stadiums of about 52K.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021 04:48 PM by Statefan.)
11-01-2021 04:23 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #16
RE: ACC Attendance Observations
If I had to guess at changing tastes over the next 25 years I would "rightsize" ACC football stadiums at:

80K - Clemson
72K - FSU
67K - VT
63K - NC State
61K - Louisville
50K - UNC/GT/UVA/Miami/Pitt
45K - Syracuse
40K - BC
30K - WF
30K - Duke

In other words, only NC State's current stadium is probably too small for the next quarter century and this is because NC State basketball has fallen off so precipitously and tailgating is so easily facilitated at CF.
11-01-2021 04:58 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #17
RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 10:00 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 09:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!

They are filming a new movie in Syracuse,

"Two Touchdowns in Two Minutes"

A new horror film set in the foothills of SW Virginia. It only happens once every 12 years due to scheduling limitations. 03-lmfao

Directed by Wes Durham Craven.

Once every 12 years? So roughly every time they reboot "Dune"?

(11-01-2021 03:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've explained to SU they really need to cater to RV'ers. They have a perfect spot to put in 20 pull thrus.

Great idea! That should bring in 40 ticket sales... just need parking for 9,980 more RVs and you'll have a full house!
11-01-2021 05:51 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 02:04 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 09:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-01-2021 07:06 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've noticed some crappy attendance around the league...not everyone but quite a few places.

Syracuse has pretty solid season ticket holder numbers but anecdotal evidence this Fall is many aren't coming. Most of it is Covid fallout. The local county rule stating 5-11 year old children needing a negative test before entry killed a ton of families from going.

The only thing that reverse this next year is winning.

Our fan base has a loyal segment which can fill half the Dome. The rest is made up with casual fans and big event, frontrunner fans. The latter along with Covid fallouts has our actual attendance only 22 to 35K this Fall. Truly depressing.

I won't even get into how bad ACC fans generally travel.

Of all of the stupid COVID rules....this one takes the cake!

Yes, children that young shouldn't be allowed into a Syracuse game regardless of test results - Orange football should be strictly PG-13!

Mark,

You forced me to remind you of this oldie but Goody.





You didnt know! Its not your fault!

Bulletin board material for the 2027 game... 05-mafia
11-01-2021 05:54 PM
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WakeForestRanger Offline
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Post: #19
RE: ACC Attendance Observations
Wake’s stadium sold out against Duke on Saturday with more than 80% of the student body in attendance. We should sell out against NC State pretty easily But Norfolk State and Old Dominion were never going to draw a crowd.

It’s one of the reasons we need UNC on the schedule, it doesn’t just turn out traveling fans but it turns out our own fan base.

If Clawson stays and Forbes is successful, then maybe we start getting a sidewalk fan following like we started building in the Prosser years. Improving the non-conference schedule with teams the fans care about would help.
11-01-2021 07:03 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: ACC Attendance Observations
(11-01-2021 07:03 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Wake’s stadium sold out against Duke on Saturday with more than 80% of the student body in attendance. We should sell out against NC State pretty easily But Norfolk State and Old Dominion were never going to draw a crowd.

It’s one of the reasons we need UNC on the schedule, it doesn’t just turn out traveling fans but it turns out our own fan base.

If Clawson stays and Forbes is successful, then maybe we start getting a sidewalk fan following like we started building in the Prosser years. Improving the non-conference schedule with teams the fans care about would help.

You should get to play VT and UNC at least every other year.
11-01-2021 07:22 PM
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