(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

No to Liberty, but for a reason I see as major while others haven't mentioned it much ... MAC schools are public universities. Liberty is not. Some issues are different for each. The MVC has pulled that off with a 50-50 balance (but now adding Belmont, so ...?) and a P5 conference can, but the MAC? Doubt it.

I also said I would see WKU/UMass as a better combo, but WKU/MTSU is still workable.

(10-23-2021 09:03 AM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 03:30 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 12:14 AM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-22-2021 11:43 PM)freshtop Wrote:  I think we could help, but hey, it will most definitely be the MAC extending the invite if it happen. We won't be able to force our way in not matter how hard we try. I think ESPN will sweeten the pot much like they have for the SBC. They want C-USA to die and if MTSU and WKU are still kicking then it will likely survive.

No thank you. EMU is the MAC team support. I do not want to swap our closest geographical opponent which is located an hour away (Toledo) for a school in an area where we would have to charter a jet to fly to.

I don't hate WKU/MTSU, just please stay out of the conference. The travel costs outweigh whatever limited financial gain you may provide the MAC.

Travel costs? For a 5-7-hour drive? Oh, gosh! That is so awful!! Holy s*** you guys in the east are so spoiled. Is that why MAC attendance is so lousy?

Hell, you might as well drop out of the MAC and schedule all your area high school and community and junior college teams so that every game is less than an hour away.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to it. I'd rather play Grand Valley State, Wayne State, Ferris State, etc. annually than WKU/MTSU. We actually have alumni from those schools living in our area who would potentially attend a sporting event. Wayne State has 104,000 LinkedIn Profiles in the Detroit Metropolitan Area. GVSU and Ferris State have 14,000 each. Assuming it's East/West, we would be trading Toledo (7800 alumni in Detroit) for these two teams who have a combined 463 alumni in the metro area. If it's North/South, you just need to ask the Ohio schools + Ball State if they would rather play WKU/MTSU than the Michigan / Toledo area schools.

It's important that everyone plays their local schools. It grows interest in the league regionally. Playing a bunch of programs you have no history with that drives up travel costs really isn't helping most programs. For the west coast it's different, you guys don't have the luxury of having another a half dozen colleges (at least) within 4 hours if you're in most cities.

The Sun Belt won the long game because they have a regional identity. Fans of UL Lafayette, UL Monroe, Troy, South Alabama, Southern Miss are able to attend the majority of their sporting events with relative ease. If you go to the Southern Miss board their fans are happy with this move and genuinely understanding that after 25+ years of chasing a paycheck it's in their best interest to be in a stable regional conference with their local schools.

So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

I’d agree but MAC fans have been sounding like Delaney as of late thinking they offer the hottest destination for leftover schools.

The divisions are clunky though no matter how you slice it.

Wishful thinking says happy ending for everyone with the SBC taking LaTech and MTSU, WKU and another in the MAC, UTEP in the MWC.

I’d hate to see low budget schools with 50 million or less in endowments shoehorn themselves in an “FBS” conference. If there was a viable alternative I’d love to hear it, and I’m tired of this constant reshuffling every 4-5 years.

If the MAC do go to 14? I think Missouri State and Northern Iowa would be good options as well.

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

UMass, MTSU and Liberty all fit geographically. Its not like NIU and Buffalo are next door to each other.

(10-23-2021 10:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

UMass, MTSU and Liberty all fit geographically. Its not like NIU and Buffalo are next door to each other.

UMass and Liberty are far from the MAC. Amherst, MA and Lynchburg, VA don’t help demographically like proximity to Nashville would.

(10-23-2021 10:08 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  The days of the cute little bus league D1/FBS conference are about over. ... It's about TV eyeballs, big-screen TVs at home, convenient online streaming and how to monetize those things....

The MAC may be last in line, but "as is" is not an option for future survival.

All that said ... I was mistook in my judgement initially saying WKU and MTSU to the MAC is the best option. ... So I like the add of WKU ... but now see MTSU as a too-expensive stretch.

WKU-MTSU may yet happen, but I do not think it is the MAC's "job" to save anyone. I now hope the alleged brains at UMass wake up and try to move all-sports to the MAC along with WKU. ...

WKU goes to the West Division, UMass to the East. Six MAC schools have 17 future football games with UMass anyway. Most are with Buffalo and Miami-Ohio. If both go to the East, move BGSU West; terrific real rivalry with Toledo. With UMass, six in-division and 2 (1 home, 1 away) ex-division; only one West team makes the long haul each year. WKU-UMass flip-flop home games every other year.

I would prefer this because it would keep Bowling Green in the East and UMass is a stronger university. But I don't think UMass wants to come in for all sports (understandably).

If we must add Western Kentucky, put them in the East and see if North Dakota State will join our West Division. I like adding a state-flagship type school, and they'd compete right away in football.

(10-23-2021 07:21 AM)dawgonit Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 06:36 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  If WKU leaves, why not throw 15-20 million in Conf USA exit fees at Texas State over 4-5 years and build out a western flank if you are Conf USA? This is assuming LA Tech wouldn’t replace Texas St.

If I can make double what I get from ESPN and have a nucleus of LA Tech, UTEP, NMSU, and a couple more FCS call ups? It may be worth it to save on travel costs.

That seems to be the WAC's future footprint. I don't think Texas St. sees the benefit of starting over in a new conference. Maybe they'd enjoy bringing up SFA, SHSU, and Lamar?

There's no way Conference USA is folding. They will just bring up the crap that'll makes David St dream come true.

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference

That's debatable. To me, it seems like expansion for the sake of expansion. While they don't subtract from our conference's academic prestige, they don't add to it. They are pretty good at basketball I hear, but it isn't like the MAC is suddenly going to become a two-bid league. They aren't Memphis or even Butler.

Just because some Conference USA schools want a lifeboat doesn't mean it is in our interest to give them one.

Quote:Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work.

It is actually the way this will work. I don't know if the vote has to be unanimous or not among university presidents, but if is all downside for some schools, their presidents may well vote no.

I see no upside for Bowling Green in this, especially if this means shoving Bowling Green into the West. I'm not saying Bowling Green's president would vote no -- and I have no inside information at all -- but I don't see why he would have a reason to vote yes.

Quote:If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

At least those schools would add something in academics. Just based on academics, Bowling Green's president might have more reason to vote "yes."

(10-23-2021 10:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the MAC do go to 14? I think Missouri State and Northern Iowa would be good options as well.

They would if they were FBS in football.

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

I would be very pleased to see WKU and MTSU in the MAC. I hope it happens. Please take the Raider program.

(10-23-2021 10:59 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference

That's debatable. To me, it seems like expansion for the sake of expansion. While they don't subtract from our conference's academic prestige, they don't add to it.

They are better than most of our football teams and better than most of our hoops teams. They are close to the foot print, have good history, and would pair well in terms of fan commute to *3* MAC schools.

How is not helping? I mean if you're looking for a team to up our prestige, then there is nobody out there.

Quote:At least those schools would add something in academics.

If you're not from a top 150 national university then you don't get to gripe how others should "enhance" the prestige of the conference. Take care of your own house.

I don’t understand why the MAC would not take MTSU if it takes WKU, especially if travel is the concern. They are literally 90 miles from each other. And guess what is right between them? BNA - Nashville International Airport. It’s a two’fer. One flight and short bus rides to both schools.

But, I get it, WKU and MTSU need the MAC more than the MAC needs us.


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(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

Bingo, we have a winner!

(10-23-2021 11:39 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

Bingo, we have a winner!

I agree too. Demographics are destiny and while the MAC has a good regional thing going on, they would be wise to get into some higher-growth areas outside the Rust Belt without stretching their footprint too far. Bowling Green, KY is a fast-growing city and the Nashville metro area sitting in between WKU & MTSU is absolutely booming.

(10-23-2021 10:59 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the MAC do go to 14? I think Missouri State and Northern Iowa would be good options as well.

They would if they were FBS in football.

The difference between MAC and MVFC football is rather slim... athletic department budgets are comparable.. fan base size also comparable.

(10-23-2021 10:23 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:20 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I don’t see how UMass does anything for geography and establishing rivalries. WKU is the best option but there isn’t a viable 14th school. Maybe Liberty if they are ambitious, or stay at 13 like they have in the past.

The viable 14th school is MTSU. Contiguous to MAC footprint with WKU, olympic sports can fly into Nashville and doubledip with WKU/MTSU, and most importantly puts the MAC in a booming market and state that helps with athlete and general student recruiting.

For the six Ohio schools, which are within 8-9 hours of WKU, it would not be surprising if some Olympic sports teams take a long bus ride to a hotel, short rides to the schools, and a long bus ride home.

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

(10-23-2021 05:05 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  

(10-23-2021 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So drop EMU, add WKU? I'd take that...

Look you're being entirely "my school" about this which is understandable but not the way things work. WKU would help the MAC be a stronger conference and it's a good location for three MAC schools (Ohio, Miami, BSU).

Yea it would not be awesome for EMU (or Buffalo for that matter), but it's also not the worst thing in the world. The MAC would still be, for the most part, a "Bus league".

If I was being provincial I would be demanding Stony Brook and UMass to please Buffalo. But for the Rest of the MAC they don't do anything but make life harder.

It's not just for EMU, it's the bulk of the MAC teams. Central is about 2.5 hours from Toledo. Western about 2 hours. And if it's not the Michigan MAC schools, then it's Kent/Akron who get screwed out of their Toledo/BG games which are their closest geographical rivals they've been playing forever.

I don't know if you've actually done the logistics, but there isn't a single program who's travel time is cut down with these additions. Sure, the bi-annual crossover between our two outliers (NIU and Buffalo) goes to a "twice every 7 years" scenario, but every program who gets stuck with MTSU/WKU in their division trades 2 Ohio schools that are multiple hours closer. Not to mention they've been playing those programs for generations.

MTSU is a 6+ hour drive to 10/12 schools and WKU is a 6+ hour drive to 8/12 members of the conference (and that's being nice, it's 5.75 hours to BGSU and Ohio U). Meanwhile, if you removed NIU and Buffalo, every school would be within 6 hours of each other.

If any of the MAC programs would like to join a conference with WKU/MTSU, they are free to leave for C-USA. The MAC doesn't need 12 teams to have a conference and the departures of those programs would lower all of our travel costs.

All valid points. Some would say the markets, basketball programs, football programs and new fertile recruiting grounds for basketball and fb + the built-in rivalry “100 Miles of Hate” are worth the added distance.

We also have a sizable alumni population in Indy, Chicago and Cincinnati.

But I get it, the distance would make life more difficult for the MAC. I can appreciate that.

The other side of the coin is how many fans are going to be psyched about swapping a southern conference with a northern one, and all the weather patterns that come with it?