(10-19-2021 04:20 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 04:07 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 07:55 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:28 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:10 PM)JCraft Wrote:  Lunardi in his wisdom is saying we won't even get a sniff of the Final 4. He needs to eat a big plate of that!

Here

Not a Lunardi fan, but in fairness how many teams have gone from NIT champion to NCAA Final 4 the very next season? That doesn't mean we can't do it or that we won't do it. It just means history is not in our favor.

As a Tiger fan, I really have high hopes for this season. We have potential to be special, but we have to prove it on the court. Over the past decade we have never lived up to expectations in any given year, highly ranked or not. It's not hard to see why there may be doubters nationally.

JMO

On the surface you are likely correct on very few NIT champs making the jump to Final 4 contenders the following year.

However, we were a significantly better team with Deandre Williams, we would have been an NCAA tournament lock if we had him all year. We will have him all year. Then we return a significant number of high level contributors and on top of that add Timberlake (considered a potential 1st round pick before injury last year), Minot, and two top 5 recruits (Bates and Duren). On top of that, we also brought in senior transfer Tyler Harris and added the Lawson brothers. And if that was not enough, we then added Larry Brown to the staff. Of course there are other recruits brought in who will be high level contributors in the future but probably wont see much time this year.

In short, I am willing to bet you would not find another NIT champ that had the offseason Memphis has had...

I have no idea what the offseason looked like for any past champions other than Memphis, and it is almost certain that we had the best that any past champs have ever had. However we also have a history since Cal left of vastly underperforming in any given year regardless of the recruiting class in that year.

A quick search showed from 1985-2017, not a single NIT champion even made it to an Elite 8 the following year. 18 NIT champs made the dance the following year, 15 did not. Of those 18, here is how it breaks out:

1st round - 8
Round of 32 - 7
Sweet 16 - 3

Again, from the outside looking in without blue glasses, it is completely understandable that any national media could have doubts. History is against us.

I truly hope with are the anomaly and win the NC though.

So do you not remember when we went to the NIT final four and turned around and went to a NCAA Elite 8...

Come on surely you remember that.

How about Cal going from first round Exit in the NIT to NCAA runner up the next year.

What will truly show if Lunardi is biased is his opinion of #10 ranked Kentucky...A team that had a losing record last year and a lesser recruiting class.

Or

How about his opinions on the #9 rated Duke who didn't make the tourney last year either.

Sure there are plenty of teams over the years who did not make the NCAA in various ways (NIT non-champion, no postseason, postseason bans). All kinds of stuff happens every single year.

Lunardi specifically mentioned the NIT champions, so I was just talking at the specific metric. It be fair as well I only saw a timeframe from 1985-2017 in my 5 minute google search, and I honestly doubt Lunardi even did that much research before his comment.

It's not some magic bullet that means success or not, it's just the metric that he was using. As an outsider (which Lunadri is) it is easy to place a bet against us looking at past history of that specific metric. If we had been bounced in the NIT 1st round with this same offseason then he'd be saying the exact same thing without saying "champs" in it.

Again, I am not saying I agree with Lunardi. I'm just saying that I'm not flabbergasted as a Tiger fan that someone in media would doubt our chances.

(10-18-2021 01:28 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:10 PM)JCraft Wrote:  Lunardi in his wisdom is saying we won't even get a sniff of the Final 4. He needs to eat a big plate of that!

Here

Not a Lunardi fan, but in fairness how many teams have gone from NIT champion to NCAA Final 4 the very next season? That doesn't mean we can't do it or that we won't do it. It just means history is not in our favor.

As a Tiger fan, I really have high hopes for this season. We have potential to be special, but we have to prove it on the court. Over the past decade we have never lived up to expectations in any given year, highly ranked or not. It's not hard to see why there may be doubters nationally.

JMO

I don’t think any have, although one team won both in the same year. And another team won the always the bridesmaid never the bride award by losing both in the same year.*

*trivia

Here's how the AP guys voted.

Over half of the voters (34) had us in the top 10 with a high of #2. To offset that we had 7 guys that didn't rank us at all. Among notable name: Vitale - 6, Borzello - 7, Rothstein - 17, Seth Davis - 19.

Here's some of the guys that didn't rank us:
Jerry Carino - Richmond - 23, St. John's - 24, Colorado State - 25
Jerry DiPaola - Mississippi State - 25
Bret Bloomquist - St. John's - 23, Richmond - 24, Drake - 25
Stephen Tsai - Colorado - 24, Texas Tech - 25

Hilarious that anyone in their right mind would pick Colorado State, Drake or Miss State and leave us unranked.

(10-20-2021 07:57 AM)Browning Hall Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:28 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:10 PM)JCraft Wrote:  Lunardi in his wisdom is saying we won't even get a sniff of the Final 4. He needs to eat a big plate of that!

Here

Not a Lunardi fan, but in fairness how many teams have gone from NIT champion to NCAA Final 4 the very next season? That doesn't mean we can't do it or that we won't do it. It just means history is not in our favor.

As a Tiger fan, I really have high hopes for this season. We have potential to be special, but we have to prove it on the court. Over the past decade we have never lived up to expectations in any given year, highly ranked or not. It's not hard to see why there may be doubters nationally.

JMO

I don’t think any have, although one team won both in the same year. And another team won the always the bridesmaid never the bride award by losing both in the same year.*

*trivia

I had no idea but I know now after googling it.

(10-20-2021 12:14 AM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 04:20 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 04:07 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 07:55 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:28 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  Not a Lunardi fan, but in fairness how many teams have gone from NIT champion to NCAA Final 4 the very next season? That doesn't mean we can't do it or that we won't do it. It just means history is not in our favor.

As a Tiger fan, I really have high hopes for this season. We have potential to be special, but we have to prove it on the court. Over the past decade we have never lived up to expectations in any given year, highly ranked or not. It's not hard to see why there may be doubters nationally.

JMO

On the surface you are likely correct on very few NIT champs making the jump to Final 4 contenders the following year.

However, we were a significantly better team with Deandre Williams, we would have been an NCAA tournament lock if we had him all year. We will have him all year. Then we return a significant number of high level contributors and on top of that add Timberlake (considered a potential 1st round pick before injury last year), Minot, and two top 5 recruits (Bates and Duren). On top of that, we also brought in senior transfer Tyler Harris and added the Lawson brothers. And if that was not enough, we then added Larry Brown to the staff. Of course there are other recruits brought in who will be high level contributors in the future but probably wont see much time this year.

In short, I am willing to bet you would not find another NIT champ that had the offseason Memphis has had...

I have no idea what the offseason looked like for any past champions other than Memphis, and it is almost certain that we had the best that any past champs have ever had. However we also have a history since Cal left of vastly underperforming in any given year regardless of the recruiting class in that year.

A quick search showed from 1985-2017, not a single NIT champion even made it to an Elite 8 the following year. 18 NIT champs made the dance the following year, 15 did not. Of those 18, here is how it breaks out:

1st round - 8
Round of 32 - 7
Sweet 16 - 3

Again, from the outside looking in without blue glasses, it is completely understandable that any national media could have doubts. History is against us.

I truly hope with are the anomaly and win the NC though.

So do you not remember when we went to the NIT final four and turned around and went to a NCAA Elite 8...

Come on surely you remember that.

How about Cal going from first round Exit in the NIT to NCAA runner up the next year.

What will truly show if Lunardi is biased is his opinion of #10 ranked Kentucky...A team that had a losing record last year and a lesser recruiting class.

Or

How about his opinions on the #9 rated Duke who didn't make the tourney last year either.

Sure there are plenty of teams over the years who did not make the NCAA in various ways (NIT non-champion, no postseason, postseason bans). All kinds of stuff happens every single year.

Lunardi specifically mentioned the NIT champions, so I was just talking at the specific metric. It be fair as well I only saw a timeframe from 1985-2017 in my 5 minute google search, and I honestly doubt Lunardi even did that much research before his comment.

It's not some magic bullet that means success or not, it's just the metric that he was using. As an outsider (which Lunadri is) it is easy to place a bet against us looking at past history of that specific metric. If we had been bounced in the NIT 1st round with this same offseason then he'd be saying the exact same thing without saying "champs" in it.

Again, I am not saying I agree with Lunardi. I'm just saying that I'm not flabbergasted as a Tiger fan that someone in media would doubt our chances.

Agreed...

NIT champion is not a metric you can use...Either way.

Because there are many examples are of teams who make huge leaps year to year. The data set for non-Nit champions if much larger and has a much larger set of teams that have succeeded.

I think if he took any time and said hey Memphis finished strong...Returned their core and added the #1 recruiting class. Wouldn't that line up with more with the Memphis team I mentioned or the UK team that went for first round NIT to championship game.

So either he was being lazy or being biased. Again we will see what he says about UK or Duke when he evaluates those. If he evaluates them as having a higher chance than Memphis it shows he is biased or has a low opinion of the coach.

Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NIT championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

(10-20-2021 09:23 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

You know he meant NIT championship.

(10-20-2021 09:30 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:23 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

You know he meant NIT championship.

He's old

(10-20-2021 09:30 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:23 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

You know he meant NIT championship.

I just know what he wrote bro.

(10-20-2021 09:32 AM)cmt Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:30 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:23 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

You know he meant NIT championship.

He's old

How old is old?

(10-20-2021 09:33 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:30 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:23 AM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 09:12 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Nobody has made the Final Four the year after winning the NCAA championship, but there was one near-miss that I remember: 1971 Marquette. In the previous year, Marquette (then an independent) was invited to the NCAA tournament but was unhappy with their regional placement, so they declined the bid, went to the NIT instead, and won it. The next year they were undefeated and ranked #1 or #2 all year, and entered the NCAA as a co-favorite along with UCLA, the eventual winner. But Marquette was eliminated in the regionals by Ohio State in a one-point and somewhat controversial loss, ending a 39-game winning streak.

Oklahoma A&M 45 and 46

Kentucky 48 and 49

San Francisco 55 and 56

Cincinnati 61 and 62

UCLA 64 and 65 67-73

Duke 91 and 92

Florida 06 and 07

You know he meant NIT championship.

I just know what he wrote bro.

Lol...Point taken

Yeah, obviously I meant the year after winning the NIT championship, not NCAA. :) I've fixed the original post.

How old am I? Well, I remember the city's excitement when Larry Finch and Ronnie Robinson were recruited to Memphis State!

(10-20-2021 09:43 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Yeah, obviously I meant the year after winning the NIT championship, not NCAA. :) I've fixed the original post.

How old am I? Well, I remember the city's excitement when Larry Finch and Ronnie Robinson were recruited to Memphis State!

but do you remember yesterday ?

(10-19-2021 04:20 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 04:07 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-19-2021 07:55 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:28 PM)SpiderMan79x Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:10 PM)JCraft Wrote:  Lunardi in his wisdom is saying we won't even get a sniff of the Final 4. He needs to eat a big plate of that!

Here

Not a Lunardi fan, but in fairness how many teams have gone from NIT champion to NCAA Final 4 the very next season? That doesn't mean we can't do it or that we won't do it. It just means history is not in our favor.

As a Tiger fan, I really have high hopes for this season. We have potential to be special, but we have to prove it on the court. Over the past decade we have never lived up to expectations in any given year, highly ranked or not. It's not hard to see why there may be doubters nationally.

JMO

On the surface you are likely correct on very few NIT champs making the jump to Final 4 contenders the following year.

However, we were a significantly better team with Deandre Williams, we would have been an NCAA tournament lock if we had him all year. We will have him all year. Then we return a significant number of high level contributors and on top of that add Timberlake (considered a potential 1st round pick before injury last year), Minot, and two top 5 recruits (Bates and Duren). On top of that, we also brought in senior transfer Tyler Harris and added the Lawson brothers. And if that was not enough, we then added Larry Brown to the staff. Of course there are other recruits brought in who will be high level contributors in the future but probably wont see much time this year.

In short, I am willing to bet you would not find another NIT champ that had the offseason Memphis has had...

I have no idea what the offseason looked like for any past champions other than Memphis, and it is almost certain that we had the best that any past champs have ever had. However we also have a history since Cal left of vastly underperforming in any given year regardless of the recruiting class in that year.

A quick search showed from 1985-2017, not a single NIT champion even made it to an Elite 8 the following year. 18 NIT champs made the dance the following year, 15 did not. Of those 18, here is how it breaks out:

1st round - 8
Round of 32 - 7
Sweet 16 - 3

Again, from the outside looking in without blue glasses, it is completely understandable that any national media could have doubts. History is against us.

I truly hope with are the anomaly and win the NC though.

So do you not remember when we went to the NIT final four and turned around and went to a NCAA Elite 8...

Come on surely you remember that.

How about Cal going from first round Exit in the NIT to NCAA runner up the next year.

What will truly show if Lunardi is biased is his opinion of #10 ranked Kentucky...A team that had a losing record last year and a lesser recruiting class.

Or

How about his opinions on the #9 rated Duke who didn't make the tourney last year either.

Exactly right. Lunardi is a POS hack.

(10-20-2021 08:09 AM)mairving Wrote:  Here's how the AP guys voted.

Over half of the voters (34) had us in the top 10 with a high of #2. To offset that we had 7 guys that didn't rank us at all. Among notable name: Vitale - 6, Borzello - 7, Rothstein - 17, Seth Davis - 19.

Here's some of the guys that didn't rank us:
Jerry Carino - Richmond - 23, St. John's - 24, Colorado State - 25
Jerry DiPaola - Mississippi State - 25
Bret Bloomquist - St. John's - 23, Richmond - 24, Drake - 25
Stephen Tsai - Colorado - 24, Texas Tech - 25

Hilarious that anyone in their right mind would pick Colorado State, Drake or Miss State and leave us unranked.

Rothstein and Davis. Who'd a thunk it?

Those other 4 are local hacks who evidently don't pay attention to anything.
Carino - Asbury Park Press (NJ)
DiPaola - Pittsburgh Tribune (PA)
Bloomquist - El Paso Times (TX)
Tsai - Honolulu Star (HI)

(10-20-2021 09:43 AM)OldFan Wrote:  Yeah, obviously I meant the year after winning the NIT championship, not NCAA. :) I've fixed the original post.

How old am I? Well, I remember the city's excitement when Larry Finch and Ronnie Robinson were recruited to Memphis State!

#metoo

(10-20-2021 01:17 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 08:09 AM)mairving Wrote:  Here's how the AP guys voted.

Over half of the voters (34) had us in the top 10 with a high of #2. To offset that we had 7 guys that didn't rank us at all. Among notable name: Vitale - 6, Borzello - 7, Rothstein - 17, Seth Davis - 19.

Here's some of the guys that didn't rank us:
Jerry Carino - Richmond - 23, St. John's - 24, Colorado State - 25
Jerry DiPaola - Mississippi State - 25
Bret Bloomquist - St. John's - 23, Richmond - 24, Drake - 25
Stephen Tsai - Colorado - 24, Texas Tech - 25

Hilarious that anyone in their right mind would pick Colorado State, Drake or Miss State and leave us unranked.

Rothstein and Davis. Who'd a thunk it?

Those other 4 are local hacks who evidently don't pay attention to anything.
Carino - Asbury Park Press (NJ)
DiPaola - Pittsburgh Tribune (PA)
Bloomquist - El Paso Times (TX)
Tsai - Honolulu Star (HI)

It's always horse dookie. Post this up in the locker room! Get to work! And WIN!

(10-18-2021 01:36 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote:  There must be some mafia relatives of Lunardi that have ties or vested interest in Sportscenter. "We got this fat lazy no talent a%*clown of a nephew, but your going to find him something he can do"... "Well, we can make him a Bracketologist"...

I just dont see any other way that guy has a job. If that is the case I wish they would do something about all the woke BS on the network.

I liked it better when they kept that archetypal dweeb in the closet for most of the year and paraded him out 3 or 4 weeks before Madness. He was an innocent then --bad toupee and all. lol

The guy is pretty full of himself now, but he just can't seem to shake that dweeby vibe.

Once a dweeb always a dweeb I reckon. (nttawwt)

Zags gonna be super scary, probably run the table UCLA looks a little overhyped but overall no complaints.

12 is around where we should be imo