(10-18-2021 11:40 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  So, I don't know if publically advocating for someone to be fired is wholly appropriate, considering he has a family, etc., but I do think it is time for a change. Bloomgren has put out a product that is uninspiring and boring to watch, and, most importantly, hasn't gotten results. The Rice teams under his tenure have been uninspired, undisciplined and unprepared. While all reasonable prognostications had us at 2-4 at this point in the season (and likely 2-5, given this week at UAB), it is how we have lost that really is cause for concern. We have lost 2 of our last 4 games by a combined score of 100-0 (struggling to beat TSU and Southern Miss). It not just that we are losing, its how we are losing, and what that says about the program under Bloomgren's stewardship moving forward. Whatever the offense is, it just isn't working, and, frankly, hasn't worked since Bloom got here. What is the end game? What does JK see in Bloom/the program at this time that would indicate an upward trajectory, or that this skid could be turned around any time soon? How much is enough?

So, in the back half of the season, let's say we go 4-2, thereby making us bowl eligible. How does that show a marked improvement since Bailiff? Wasn't the criticism of Bailiff that we would lose the signature games, or even those games against "decent" opponents, while feasting on the dregs of the conference? Wouldn't that be the same here?

I think all of us gave a tip of the cap to JK for realizing he had made a mistake with Bragga, and cutting ties when he did. Why can't we do the same for our football program? Looking at the glass half-full here - while the results on the field are neither conducive nor attractive for prospective conferences taking a look at us, wouldn't making a decision now, right now, that this is unacceptable, indicate we are serious about our results on the football field? Maybe tie that announcement in with an announcement to upgrade the facilities at HRS. Make a statement that we are setting standards for our football program at Rice, and we are investing the monies to do it. We have the Dunlevie Family endowment for the football coach - theoretically couldn't that be used to attract a good, up-and-coming coach?

My hope is that the answer to this question is just, it hasn't happened this season yet.

We held on to Bailiff for so long because he coached the 2008 team to a win at the Texas Bowl, then the conference championship in 2013. Regardless of the conversation about the decline in opponent quality, etc. he proved he could win games, was a terrific ambassador for the university, graduated players, and developed (either by recruiting or on-campus development) NFL players. I don't think Bloom can check any of those boxes at this point.

Like Bragga, let's recognize a bad hire when he have proof and cut and run. I wish it could have worked out, but it hasn't and it won't.

(10-18-2021 10:22 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:40 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 12:00 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(10-17-2021 11:34 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  I am confused. I thought Rice isn't paying anything of his salary since his salary is an endowment. How about the persons who are funding the endowment, do they have any input or even care?

(10-17-2021 08:07 PM)Ourland Wrote:  He has to be given every opportunity to win six games. Yes it looks bleak for him, but mathematically, it can happen.

They probably already have the buyout money in hand. Give him the rest of the season, and then get him the hell outta here. He has destroyed this program.

Endowed by what? A Rice University endowment? Does a chemistry professor endowment stop being paid by Rice since the money comes from a subset of Rice income? I'm not even sure I understand this distinction.

Bloom's salary is paid out of a specific endowment that pays for the coach's salary and nothing else

In the simplest example (and I have no idea what the actual numbers are).... if the gift was $1mm and the endowment earns 5%, then the endowment kicks off $50,000 per year in revenue which goes towards the salary. $10mm is $500,000. $100mm is $5mm

My bet is that it was in the $10mm range which is why he gets paid more than Bailiff did (as I understand it)

(10-18-2021 10:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 09:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I honestly think JK is a highly skilled administrator. He doesn't have what it takes to run football, though..... and football is THE driver of everything that is happening.

The value of an upper manager is being able to manage the *thing*. The value of a VP-type manager is being able to manage the more important things in the organization.

I dont think any organization worth its salt would say:

a) Dave is a good manager of Z

b) Dave doesnt know sh-t from shinola about the related field X, and is inept in that.

c) Lets make Dave VP of XZ, where X is the most important aspect of the field.

d) Nor would they say 'Lets make Dave VP of XZ and make sure Dave has a *great* manager of X to offset his shortcomings in X -- our most important line'.

What one *would* do is hire Jane, who is an absolute clock stopping ace at X, and have another backstop the less important aspects.

I dont subsrcibe to the paradigm that 'Since Rice is different, we need to upend the above'. We *did* do that -- with JK in some sense.

True, but this is Rice and we don't spend money like that. Plus, we've already hired Dave and he's under contract for a few more years... and the skills he has at Z are valuable and DO contribute to X... they just don't overcome being POOR at X.

More importantly, you have to consider that the only way you're going to get a 'Jane' to come put her reputation at risk at Rice is if she is woefully unprepared for Z and needs more seasoning and experience... which Dave could greatly help her with. Dave's contract expires an Jane is ready to take the wheel. Dave's incentive for doing this is he avoids the stigma of being fired...truly demonstrates to others that he's an amazing 'team player' willing to do what it takes to succeed... and he resurrects his reputation. Dave isn't anywhere near retirement age.

If the 'hire under' is made with the eye of 'replacing with' in the near future, then I would be good with it. If the 'hire under' is meant to be a status quo situation, then I would not. Thanks for the clarification.

4 of the 6 worst teams in FBS are from C-USA (and Rice is not one of those 4). Going 6-6 would prove nothing, and, in fact, would be a long term disaster for Rice football (assuming Bloomgren would be retained).

(10-18-2021 01:50 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  4 of the 6 worst teams in FBS are from C-USA (and Rice is not one of those 4). Going 6-6 would prove nothing, and, in fact, would be a long term disaster for Rice football (assuming Bloomgren would be retained).

+1

Bloomgren is the 12th Rice head football coach who has had more than 3 seasons on the job. Only Ray Alborn had a worse record, but he was coaching in the Southwest Conference.

Guys... this is someone getting paid $1mm+/yr to coach football. Getting fired is part of the reason 'why'. If that's not 'who Rice is' then why are we paying the same salaries as those who ARE 'that'? Because there is no chattel in that quality.

If this wasn't the nail in the coffin then I'm very disappointed... but if the powers at be aren't there yet, then of course you don't fire him. If they ARE there (and I seriously hope they are) then there is no point in waiting until the end of the season.

While the attention is currently negative, we ARE getting attention. To not take advantage of that by AT LEAST saying LOSING isn't 'who Rice is' and that we are moving on in a prudent fashion, we are shooting ourselves in the foot, especially with the transfer portal and other issues.

You have the attention now. Use it or lose it.

Football coaches sometimes get fired during the season. This is true for sports coaches in general. Just because Rice hasn't done it doesn't mean Rice should not do it.

The only great reason I can think of for Rice to stay with Bloomgren through the season is if there are significant financial benefits for waiting until the end of the season to make this decision. I think there are some other valid arguments for waiting (not firing him as long as there is a mathematical possibility of getting to .500 or better; Rice probably wouldn't fire a non-tenure professor mid-semester unless there was misconduct so Rice wants to treat coaches the same way; etc.). I don't love those reasons, but I at least understand them.

And realistically, if by some unexpected miracle, Rice finishes the season 4-2 with 2 narrow losses and wins the 4 games by an average margin of 20+ points, then there are some substantive arguments to be made for keeping Bloomgren, even if the first 6 games of 2021 have been mostly disasterous. To be clear, I don't think there is any way Bloomgren can manufacture such a miracle and I do not believe squeaking by with 4 more wins against bad CUSA teams should result in his return. But I can understand JK & Co. wanting to at least give it a few more games before pulling the trigger. As much as I hate it.

(10-18-2021 09:36 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 09:15 AM)BSWBRice Wrote:  Pretty sure EtxOwl was being sarcastic.

Personally I’m ready to see Bloom gone ASAP.

If Rice were in the AAC, could they get a better coach, and have a better football team? Could they also improve their basketball program?

We could hire Larry Brown and go on probation.

(10-18-2021 11:40 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  So, in the back half of the season, let's say we go 4-2, thereby making us bowl eligible. How does that show a marked improvement since Bailiff? Wasn't the criticism of Bailiff that we would lose the signature games, or even those games against "decent" opponents, while feasting on the dregs of the conference? Wouldn't that be the same here?

My criticisms of Bailiff were that 1) he couldn't sustain, and 2) even his better teams were not good defensively (despite having two NFL corners at one point) or on special teams (despite having one outstanding place kicker and one outstanding punter). Signature games don't become signature games until you put together a string of winning seasons to back them up. Without that, they are just one-off oddities.

He caught lightning in a bottle with Chase Clement (although he went 3-9 one year with Chase, Thor, and Dillard) and again with McHargue, just as with Barrick Nealy at Texas State. But aside from those years, he never posted a winning season at either Rice or Texas State.

(10-18-2021 04:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Football coaches sometimes get fired during the season. This is true for sports coaches in general. Just because Rice hasn't done it doesn't mean Rice should not do it.

The only great reason I can think of for Rice to stay with Bloomgren through the season is if there are significant financial benefits for waiting until the end of the season to make this decision. I think there are some other valid arguments for waiting (not firing him as long as there is a mathematical possibility of getting to .500 or better; Rice probably wouldn't fire a non-tenure professor mid-semester unless there was misconduct so Rice wants to treat coaches the same way; etc.). I don't love those reasons, but I at least understand them.

And realistically, if by some unexpected miracle, Rice finishes the season 4-2 with 2 narrow losses and wins the 4 games by an average margin of 20+ points, then there are some substantive arguments to be made for keeping Bloomgren, even if the first 6 games of 2021 have been mostly disasterous. To be clear, I don't think there is any way Bloomgren can manufacture such a miracle and I do not believe squeaking by with 4 more wins against bad CUSA teams should result in his return. But I can understand JK & Co. wanting to at least give it a few more games before pulling the trigger. As much as I hate it.

I get what you're saying, but the market for non-tenure professors or kids whom they might be (or should be) 'recruiting' isn't remotely the same. You can't have the same metrics... and while I understand that he can still technically 'win out', there is absolutely no reason to suspect this would happen. You call it a miracle.

If we're going to bet on a miracle, why don't we fire ALL the coaches and let the redshirts or those on IR coach? Maybe we start a class on 'coaching' and let the student of the week be the head coach?? We can pay the players out of the coaching pool for performance. Maybe 1k per player per win?? How about a 5k per player bonus if they hit 6 wins? I actually have more faith that THIS would produce wins than I do of the latter.

I know you aren't advocating for this and hope this doesn't come off poorly, but 'hoping for a miracle' is not a business plan.

(10-18-2021 04:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Rice probably wouldn't fire a non-tenure professor mid-semester unless there was misconduct so Rice wants to treat coaches the same way; etc.). I don't love those reasons, but I at least understand them.

A non-tenured professor doesnt carry with him (or her) the ability to generate revenue.

Quote:And realistically, if by some unexpected miracle, Rice finishes the season 4-2 with 2 narrow losses and wins the 4 games by an average margin of 20+ points, then there are some substantive arguments to be made for keeping Bloomgren, even if the first 6 games of 2021 have been mostly disasterous. To be clear, I don't think there is any way Bloomgren can manufacture such a miracle and I do not believe squeaking by with 4 more wins against bad CUSA teams should result in his return. But I can understand JK & Co. wanting to at least give it a few more games before pulling the trigger. As much as I hate it.

At the macro level that is a valid viewpoint. When one pulls back the covers, I dont think a sub-150 yard offensive production offsets 4 wins at this point, as well as the very apparent inability of an offense at all in almost 4 years.

If there was a glimmer of any progress at this point, or at anytime in the last four years, I would be all in for that point of view. In a macro viewpoint, there isnt the scintilla of progress at this point.

The pie at the bakery is baked at this point, and it should be obvious to anyone who has anything near an objective view.

Honestly, I was in the 'fire Bloom' column in 2019 when we started out 0-9. My thought then was that I might be dissuaded if he won out --- and he did.

(10-18-2021 05:21 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 04:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Rice probably wouldn't fire a non-tenure professor mid-semester unless there was misconduct so Rice wants to treat coaches the same way; etc.). I don't love those reasons, but I at least understand them.

A non-tenured professor doesnt carry with him (or her) the ability to generate revenue.

Quote:And realistically, if by some unexpected miracle, Rice finishes the season 4-2 with 2 narrow losses and wins the 4 games by an average margin of 20+ points, then there are some substantive arguments to be made for keeping Bloomgren, even if the first 6 games of 2021 have been mostly disasterous. To be clear, I don't think there is any way Bloomgren can manufacture such a miracle and I do not believe squeaking by with 4 more wins against bad CUSA teams should result in his return. But I can understand JK & Co. wanting to at least give it a few more games before pulling the trigger. As much as I hate it.

At the macro level that is a valid viewpoint. When one pulls back the covers, I dont think a sub-150 yard offensive production offsets 4 wins at this point, as well as the very apparent inability of an offense at all in almost 4 years.

If there was a glimmer of any progress at this point, or at anytime in the last four years, I would be all in for that point of view. In a macro viewpoint, there isnt the scintilla of progress at this point.

The pie at the bakery is baked at this point, and it should be obvious to anyone who has anything near an objective view.

Honestly, I was in the 'fire Bloom' column in 2019 when we started out 0-9. My thought then was that I might be dissuaded if he won out --- and he did.

Once again, what will it prove to anyone with half a brain if we win 4 more games against the dregs of college football? Nothing. Worst thing that could happen would be to win out and keep him on. that is exactly what bailliff did, digging an even deeper hole in the long run.

(10-16-2021 08:02 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Fire Mike Bloomgren.

Now, more than ever.

Fundamental rule of management, never abandon Plan A until you know what Plan B is. So if Bloomgren is Plan A and we are abandoning him, who/what is Plan B? I had a pretty firm idea when we were trying to get rid of Bailiff, but he has moved on to bigger and better things and is way out of our price range now.

To be clear, I'm not saying keep Bloomgren. I think he's basically a nice guy and well-regarded coach who is in over his head and doesn't see a way to fix it. As with Bailiff, square pegs into round holes won't get it done at Rice.

.083 2017 (last year of previous tenure)
.154 2018
.250 2019
.400 2020
.462 2021 goal (bowl eligible, six total wins minimum)

6 wins is still very much in play, and will still be regardless of what happens against UAB.

I’m in the minority here with Ourland and maybe a couple others, but as long as season goals are in play, I don’t think we should make any quick decisions.

We’ve seen so many second half turnarounds at Rice, still holding out hope for this season.

I am not alone in stating that I would NEVER watch a Rice game if I had no connection to the school. To be mediocre to bad is one thing; to be those things and interminably boring is unacceptable. The dreaded Flexbone, and even the slow motion Meerkat, were more "fun".

(10-19-2021 10:03 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I am not alone in stating that I would NEVER watch a Rice game if I had no connection to the school. To be mediocre to bad is one thing; to be those things and interminably boring is unacceptable. The dreaded Flexbone, and even the slow motion Meerkat, were more "fun".

This... hence my joking comments about 'let the players coach'.... but my serious ones about if we fire bloom, to tell the coordinators to 'make it fun' and don't worry about the outcome.

Even winning 7-6 in a boring game isn't fun.... and I have to imagine that a 7-6 game in CUSA would be filled with lots of bad offense/mistakes/drops/turnovers etc rather than great defense.

(10-19-2021 08:41 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  .083 2017 (last year of previous tenure)
.154 2018
.250 2019
.400 2020
.462 2021 goal (bowl eligible, six total wins minimum)

6 wins is still very much in play, and will still be regardless of what happens against UAB.

I’m in the minority here with Ourland and maybe a couple others, but as long as season goals are in play, I don’t think we should make any quick decisions.

We’ve seen so many second half turnarounds at Rice, still holding out hope for this season.

I would love to finish the season with 6 wins AND fire Bloomgren!

(10-18-2021 07:44 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Fundamental rule of management, never abandon Plan A until you know what Plan B is. So if Bloomgren is Plan A and we are abandoning him, who/what is Plan B. I had a pretty firm idea when we were trying to get rid of Bailiff, but he has moved on to bigger and better things and is way out of our price range now.

To be clear, I'm not saying keep Bloomgren. I think he's basically a nice guy and well-regarded coach who is in over his head and doesn't see a way to fix it. As with Bailiff, square pegs into round holes won't get it done at Rice.

Sure, sort of. The problem is that Plan B probably has a job right now and would likely be prohibited from talking until their seasons are over.

IF we're going to cut ties, I think we need to do it when the focus is on us and not wait until nobody cares anymore. We just got spanked and have under-performed across the board. People are looking to see if we will respond to that. No, this isn't about appearances over substance, but it IS about 'not letting a disaster go to waste'.

The new AAC conversation DOES now somewhat overshadow us and creates both an opportunity AND a barrier. I don't know which is more important right now.

I DO think the AAC would improve recruiting... especially with games against UTSA, Tulane, SMU, Tulsa etc... BUT... that doesn't change the philosophy mismatch.

Rolovich would look good on S. Main St.