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Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 06:41 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'm scratching my head about those saying it's the Big 12. That league is facing court battles & attorneys' fees battling over Texas and OU's departure dates and exit fees. They're losing their two best brands and money makers BY FAR. The television payout is going down by ~$10M. They've landed good additions, but how is any of the above... comfortable?

For the Big East, it's all entertainment. It's theater, and it isn't affecting them at all.


1. Everybody has their own opinions.

2. The new big east is an Olympics-Sports-Only conference. No one else seriously aspires to live in that reality. How can you be enjoying realignment and not have a seat at the big boy table?

3. The Big 12 is still the #3 Collegiate Football Conference and the #1 Basketball Conference.

The exact same place they were when it was a 10-team conference that had 8 serfs.

Much like the Big East (OBE) split that saw the C7 take control of their destiny, the Big 12 just took control of its destiny (AND THEY RETAINED AUTONOMY STATUS),

The C7 were the biggest losers because they escaped hegemony but were sent to the kids table.
10-13-2021 11:23 AM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-12-2021 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  They finally broke off and started the conference anew. Now they're not subject to this madness anymore.

You're giving the NBE (basketball-only conference) props for the EXACT same thing the Big 12 essentially just did.

The Big 12 now isn't subject to the whims of the LHN/UT... and they retained autonomy status. The membership has comity for once.

In contrast, the New Big East got kicked out of the club.

The Big 12's expansion has been acclaimed by most pundits as a big success. One of its new teams is ranked in the Top 5.

As a whole, their potential when the "Big 12 Four" have had their passes for awhile is even greater, since UT has always been a competitive failure.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 11:41 AM by TroyTBoy.)
10-13-2021 11:37 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 11:23 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The C7 were the biggest losers because they escaped hegemony but were sent to the kids table.

(10-13-2021 11:37 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The New Big East got kicked out of the club.

The C7 never sponsored football in the first place, and given the amount of turnover in BE 2.0 and 3.0 related to maintaining football for Cuse and select others they were more at the "kids table" due to their own conference then than they are now. With formal challenges agreed to with the B1G and Big 12, plus a new mini-event with the PAC and the failed B1G/ACC move on MSG, they're as much "in the club" as they've ever been.
10-13-2021 11:45 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 01:43 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I agree; it’s the Big East. I’m not sure I’d say the MAC is enjoying watching because I’m not sure they even care!

On the flip-side, I’d say the PAC is stressing a bit with Oklahoma and Texas off the market.

Of the conferences actively involved with realignment this year:
Feeling pretty - ASUN, MVC, SEC, SWAC, WAC
Not overly stressed - XII
Neutral - Big South, Summit
Nervous anxiety - AAC
Screaming on fire - MEAC, OVC, Southland

ASUN, MVC and WAC could lose schools. Missouri State's leadership fired a shot that they hinted to go FBS.
ASUN and WAC could lose schools to stop them from becoming an FBS conference.
Big South could lose North Carolina A&T to FBS and Summit could lose three schools. 2 to FBS and W. Illinois to OVC.
AAC could still lose Memphis, USF and SMU.
MAC could lose Buffalo, Ohio, Northern Illinois and Toledo.
In other words, all G5, FCS 1AAA and D2 conferences are not safe.
10-13-2021 11:46 AM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 11:45 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:23 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The C7 were the biggest losers because they escaped hegemony but were sent to the kids table.

(10-13-2021 11:37 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The New Big East got kicked out of the club.

The C7 never sponsored football in the first place, and given the amount of turnover in BE 2.0 and 3.0 related to maintaining football for Cuse and select others they were more at the "kids table" due to their own conference then than they are now. With formal challenges agreed to with the B1G and Big 12, plus a new mini-event with the PAC and the failed B1G/ACC move on MSG, they're as much "in the club" as they've ever been.

That's simply not true.

"The Club" is defined by autonomy status, not a basketball challenge.

The new big east (NBE) will never be part of autonomy. They are institutionally too dissimilar to the P5. They are like Liberty trying to live on the fringes of FBS competition.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 11:52 AM by TroyTBoy.)
10-13-2021 11:47 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 11:47 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  That's simply not true.

"The Club" is defined by autonomy status, not a basketball challenge.

By who? Because a member of "the club" just had its legs taken out from under it by another member of the "the club", and the B1G is just waiting out the ACC's GORs to do the same to them. Autonomy did nothing to protect against that. The reality is that there is no "club", just a group of separate entities made up of their own separate entities with the leverage they create for themselves.
10-13-2021 12:02 PM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-12-2021 10:37 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  Or perhaps it’s the SEC…

SEC: Get the schools we want. Relax and watch everyone else fight over ‘scraps.”
10-13-2021 12:04 PM
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All4One Online
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Post: #48
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 12:02 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:47 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  That's simply not true.

"The Club" is defined by autonomy status, not a basketball challenge.

By who? Because a member of "the club" just had its legs taken out from under it by another member of the "the club", and the B1G is just waiting out the ACC's GORs to do the same to them. Autonomy did nothing to protect against that. The reality is that there is no "club", just a group of separate entities made up of their own separate entities with the leverage they create for themselves.

Not true. The NCAA legally established Autonomy to the five Power Conferences, and every voting authority including the five Gang of 5 commissioners agreed to it....because really, they didn't have a choice.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/w...ig%2012%2C


Here is a better analysis of Power 5 Autonomy:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-autonomy/
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 12:13 PM by All4One.)
10-13-2021 12:09 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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Post: #49
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 11:47 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:45 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:23 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The C7 were the biggest losers because they escaped hegemony but were sent to the kids table.

(10-13-2021 11:37 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  The New Big East got kicked out of the club.

The C7 never sponsored football in the first place, and given the amount of turnover in BE 2.0 and 3.0 related to maintaining football for Cuse and select others they were more at the "kids table" due to their own conference then than they are now. With formal challenges agreed to with the B1G and Big 12, plus a new mini-event with the PAC and the failed B1G/ACC move on MSG, they're as much "in the club" as they've ever been.

That's simply not true.

"The Club" is defined by autonomy status, not a basketball challenge.

The new big east (NBE) will never be part of autonomy. They are institutionally too dissimilar to the P5. They are like Liberty trying to live on the fringes of FBS competition.

The Big East can enjoy whatever it wants to enjoy.

But not expanding or facing the threat of a raid, they are by definition watching all of this. They're watching just like we as fans are watching.

The Big 12 retained autonomy status, but it just got its but whooped and is going to take a massive pay cut. Things could be worse, but they sure were a lot better before. How is that enjoyable?

And why must you be autonomy to enjoy something?

The Big East exists for basketball, first and foremost by far for that league. They're doing pretty freaking well. Villanova arguably was the program of the decade. They're doing really well at what they actually care about.
10-13-2021 12:10 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 12:09 PM)All4One Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 12:02 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 11:47 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  That's simply not true.

"The Club" is defined by autonomy status, not a basketball challenge.

By who? Because a member of "the club" just had its legs taken out from under it by another member of the "the club", and the B1G is just waiting out the ACC's GORs to do the same to them. Autonomy did nothing to protect against that. The reality is that there is no "club", just a group of separate entities made up of their own separate entities with the leverage they create for themselves.

Not true. The NCAA legally established Autonomy to the five Power Conferences, and every voting authority including the five Gang of 5 commissioners agreed to it....because really, they didn't have a choice.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/w...ig%2012%2C


Here is a better analysis of Power 5 Autonomy:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-autonomy/

What about what I said was not true? The Big 12 signed a contract that they had the leverage to negotiate because Texas and OU were there (and, as you said, the other conferences "didn't have a choice" because of that). That didn't stop the SEC from pulling their headliner programs within a decade regardless. "The club" is a lie that fans of Wake and K-State and, yes, BC tell themselves to feel better about just being along for the ride.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 12:18 PM by Bogg.)
10-13-2021 12:17 PM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 12:10 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  The Big East can enjoy whatever it wants to enjoy.


I'm glad you cleared that up. I thought this had more to do with retaining "Big 6" or "P5" status.
The Big 12 is actually surviving in the power structure on the remnants of the OBE. All of the new members are highly credible additions within the power structure. The ability to bring in additions that are nationally known and have experience in the power system was BIG.
The realignment has kept their status as the #3 rated Football Conference and #1 rated Hoops conference in tact, while retaining autonomy status.

(10-13-2021 12:10 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  The Big 12 retained autonomy status, but it just got its but whooped and is going to take a massive pay cut. Things could be worse, but they sure were a lot better before. How is that enjoyable?

We disagree on this. My opinion is the Big 12 just left totalitarian governance and is now a whole (at 12) democratic group. They brought in programs that were on the outside through no fault of their own, but rather were left undervalued by the winds of realignment change.

That was actually a fortuitous circumstance of this. The fact that the Old Big East died so the Big 12 could live with solid additions. (one of which is being forecasted as a CFP participant) You couldn't write a smoother transition.

As for payout projections, that will all take place with everyone elses. Stressing over that now is a waste of energy. Who knows what it looks like if Cincinnati runs the table? That's the fun of college sports. It's an ever changing environment.
10-13-2021 12:24 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 12:24 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  That was actually a fortuitous circumstance of this. The fact that the Old Big East died so the Big 12 could live with solid additions. (one of which is being forecasted as a CFP participant) You couldn't write a smoother transition.

The only NB12 member that could reasonably described as from the "Old" Big East is West Virginia. Cincy had a less-than-10-year stopover in the third iteration of the conference and nobody else was ever a member.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 12:34 PM by Bogg.)
10-13-2021 12:33 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 12:33 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 12:24 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  That was actually a fortuitous circumstance of this. The fact that the Old Big East died so the Big 12 could live with solid additions. (one of which is being forecasted as a CFP participant) You couldn't write a smoother transition.

The only NB12 member that could reasonably described as from the "Old" Big East is West Virginia. Cincy had a less-than-10-year stopover in the third iteration of the conference and nobody else was ever a member.

Yep, that TroyBoy reference caught my attention. Glad you clarified. He often posts some nutty contentions (the future Big 12 as the "No. 1 rated" men's hoops league, for example).
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2021 01:07 PM by bill dazzle.)
10-13-2021 01:07 PM
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BKTopper Offline
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 09:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 04:31 AM)Todor Wrote:  I'd say the Big 12 as well. People got impatient on their waiting to add schools, but as it worked out, they got great adds and really solidified themselves.

A lot of mid level school presidents and ADs have to be looking at Central Florida and wondering, "damn, how'd they do that?" Not many mid major type schools ever make the jump, and for the Big 12 to get a very deserving one like UCF (in a market like Florida no less!) is a great matchup.

For a conference that lost a lot on the surface, they rebounded perfectly and can now sit back and watch.

Um, the Big 12 lost *Texas* and *Oklahoma*, the only valuable schools in the conference, and added UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston?

IMO, they are far and away the biggest losers of this realignment. So I imagine they are enjoying all this by far the least.


The biggest losers of realignment this time around are the AAC leftovers.

Especially Wichita - they thought they were making a huge upgrade by leaving the MVC, but the new AAC is going to be at the same level as the MVC. They gave up their historic rivals for nothing.

**CUSA lifts head from table, wipes tears, sniffles**
10-13-2021 01:47 PM
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 04:31 AM)Todor Wrote:  I'd say the Big 12 as well. People got impatient on their waiting to add schools, but as it worked out, they got great adds and really solidified themselves.

A lot of mid level school presidents and ADs have to be looking at Central Florida and wondering, "damn, how'd they do that?" Not many mid major type schools ever make the jump, and for the Big 12 to get a very deserving one like UCF (in a market like Florida no less!) is a great matchup.

For a conference that lost a lot on the surface, they rebounded perfectly and can now sit back and watch.

Um, the Big 12 lost *Texas* and *Oklahoma*, the only valuable schools in the conference, and added UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston?

IMO, they are far and away the biggest losers of this realignment. So I imagine they are enjoying all this by far the least.

They improved their basketball league, it's arguably a top three conference with those additions. Sure they took a hit in football, but overall their programs are better than the Pac12 and the ACC. Look at the ACC without Clemson...it's bad.

Also Texas and OU went to the SEC, which is already number 1, it's not as if the other leagues got any better.
10-13-2021 01:49 PM
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RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 09:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 04:31 AM)Todor Wrote:  I'd say the Big 12 as well. People got impatient on their waiting to add schools, but as it worked out, they got great adds and really solidified themselves.

A lot of mid level school presidents and ADs have to be looking at Central Florida and wondering, "damn, how'd they do that?" Not many mid major type schools ever make the jump, and for the Big 12 to get a very deserving one like UCF (in a market like Florida no less!) is a great matchup.

For a conference that lost a lot on the surface, they rebounded perfectly and can now sit back and watch.

Um, the Big 12 lost *Texas* and *Oklahoma*, the only valuable schools in the conference, and added UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston?

IMO, they are far and away the biggest losers of this realignment. So I imagine they are enjoying all this by far the least.


The biggest losers of realignment this time around are the AAC leftovers.

Especially Wichita - they thought they were making a huge upgrade by leaving the MVC, but the new AAC is going to be at the same level as the MVC. They gave up their historic rivals for nothing.

Agreed. The funny thing about it all is that if we are all being technical, the legal successor to the Big East (the AAC) just got raided again. The new conference known as the Big East indeed separated out to shield itself from the drama of all of this, but the old Big East (the AAC) just got bent over again by the Big 12 stealing its top three schools.

The foresight of the C7 was correct. They knew that the wheels of realignment would keep turning for football every few years and they have no horse in that race. I am just happy that UConn is back in a high major conference in basketball in the reformed Big East since it looks like the remnants of the AAC could possibly now be eclipsed by the A10 or Mountain West (or possibly even the MVC) in that sport.
10-13-2021 04:31 PM
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Gamenole Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 10:17 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 06:49 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The SEC because they hold all the cards. The Big East is a good second choice because they are stable as well.

Except the SEC is not just sitting back watching, they are a player in the field. They may be celebrating on the field, but they are not sitting back with popcorn.

Actually there is a popcorn shortage all across the South right now...apparently some guy named Joey Freshwater had it all delivered to Oxford, MS for a big party that didn't even end up happening.
10-13-2021 09:40 PM
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e-bethMSU Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 02:48 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  
(10-12-2021 11:14 PM)ShadyGrove Wrote:  
(10-12-2021 10:37 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  Or perhaps it’s the SEC…

Probably the Big12, they seemingly stabilized the conference and told the AAC and ESPN to F off. lol


Agreed, its the Big 12.

Cincinnati is the darling of college football right now, and BYU has been right there up until last week. They couldn't have orchestrated a better return to 12.

It's not the SEC - they couldn't care less what happens to the AAC, C-USA or anyone else for that matter.

I do think the Big East is very happily separated from us. I knew the SW expansion was going to eventually lead to a split. I'm happy for the Big East - no hard feelings. East Coast non-FB schools received no benefit from expansion into the SW and Florida but paid the price in watering down Big East basketball. It wasn't going to hold together.

I miss C-USA 1.0. That was my favorite era of Memphis sports - but it did what it was designed to do - get some of the schools into the power conferences - and I'm just hoping it gets one more called up to the Big 12 from that group (that would be Memphis) because I fear this next expansion is going to be a disaster for us if we remain too much longer. I enjoyed basketball games at MSG - and playing Georgetown etc - but to me a home conference for Memphis should always include Louisville, Cincinnati and a few others and that's never going to happen again.

Can you tell that I'm a little realignment weary?
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2021 03:48 AM by e-bethMSU.)
10-15-2021 03:32 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
Sun Belt. They were robbed and left to die on the side of the road. Sneered at, made fun of and looked down on by the attackers, the SB quietly patched up it's wounds and got back on its feet. Seven years later the SB is healthy, happy and desirable while the attackers are timid, afraid and in complete chaos. We're really enjoying sitting back and watching the self inflicted panic that's set in. Pass the popcorn please!
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2021 06:46 AM by AppManDG.)
10-15-2021 06:45 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Which conference is most enjoying watching realignment drama?
(10-13-2021 07:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 04:31 AM)Todor Wrote:  I'd say the Big 12 as well. People got impatient on their waiting to add schools, but as it worked out, they got great adds and really solidified themselves.

A lot of mid level school presidents and ADs have to be looking at Central Florida and wondering, "damn, how'd they do that?" Not many mid major type schools ever make the jump, and for the Big 12 to get a very deserving one like UCF (in a market like Florida no less!) is a great matchup.

For a conference that lost a lot on the surface, they rebounded perfectly and can now sit back and watch.

Um, the Big 12 lost *Texas* and *Oklahoma*, the only valuable schools in the conference, and added UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston?

IMO, they are far and away the biggest losers of this realignment. So I imagine they are enjoying all this by far the least.

And even more so if you look at this and previous rounds of realignment- Texas, OU, Mizzou, TAMU, Nebraska, Colorado.
10-15-2021 06:47 AM
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