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(10-18-2021 07:51 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We’re getting beat by teams with a plethora of 4th year, 5th yr, and even 6th year players.

You guys are asking a lot from a team with~25% first year players and another ~25% 2nd year players who had no college game day experience before Sep 3rd.

Maybe these guys are bearing a bit of the brunt of the program collapse. But man, when you start to realize we have never even won a single FBS game in the "new" 3-year old stadium that puts things into perspective. Timing couldnt have been worse to open a new facility. That place would be full and rocking with a good team in it, if for no other reason than the "newness". I still think this team could have won as many as three games with a good QB and fewer penalties. But Ls are Ls and the time for "moral victories" is long gone.

(10-18-2021 07:51 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We’re getting beat by teams with a plethora of 4th year, 5th yr, and even 6th year players.

You guys are asking a lot from a team with~25% first year players and another ~25% 2nd year players who had no college game day experience before Sep 3rd.

Rahne had two years to recruit transfers. We also didn't retain some talented upperclassmen. This is a problem of our own making. The only thing I'm willing to concede is that COVID made recruiting more challenging, but that was across the board for all teams. It was an even playing field.

All the teams that sat out last year are struggling.

(10-18-2021 09:45 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:51 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We’re getting beat by teams with a plethora of 4th year, 5th yr, and even 6th year players.

You guys are asking a lot from a team with~25% first year players and another ~25% 2nd year players who had no college game day experience before Sep 3rd.

Rahne had two years to recruit transfers. We also didn't retain some talented upperclassmen. This is a problem of our own making. The only thing I'm willing to concede is that COVID made recruiting more challenging, but that was across the board for all teams. It was an even playing field.

This is only a problem if we aren't good 3 years from now. Plugging a bunch of holes with band aids is not necessarily the best way to build your program for the long term. Personally, I would rather take some lumps while building a strong foundation.

(10-18-2021 09:58 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  All the teams that sat out last year are struggling.

There were only three. UMass and UConn always struggle. Im hoping ODU doesnt become the third team in the perpetually suck trilogy.

(10-18-2021 07:36 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-17-2021 10:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  For me, this was disappointing, not because we lost, but because we were more sluggish offensively than we should have been vs a less than stellar defense facing a QB style they were not expecting, especially at home. Except for Hampton, the Hilltoppers were the weakest defense we have seen all season.
Indeed their 5 sacks and 2 interceptions in the one game against us equalled their totals for entire season.

Mack may not be the answer, but certainly HW is not. He has an accurate arm, but he is very slow of foot, seems to be slow on his reads and progressions. Additionally, he could have run for positive yardage with a slide on a number of critical plays, and was sacked 5 times, so I am not sure about his instincts or pocket awareness.
He is, pure and simple, a pocket passer, without any of the lateral ability of a Heinicke, Washington, or LaRussa.
Our offense is by necessity, designed to run. We are not particularly good at pass blocking, as our OL is a bit slow. We CAN run block, however.

Until we have an OL with the quickness to truly pass block, and receivers who can get seperation, a one dimensional pocket passer will not fit our system or personnel.

Hayden Wolff may get better as the season progresses, and I feverently hope so, but we have been awfully close with Mack. I am afraid that once opponents see film, they will be able to pressure HW and exploit his slow feet and reads, and our OL. Remember, WKU was not prepared for him.

I disagree. I think we were much more explosive on offense than I've seen all season. Jennings hasn't looked this good all season. Kuntz had a fantastic game as well. Both have been stymied by terrible QB play.

The offensive line had their worst game of the season. Most of the sacks were not coverage sacks. The DL came through untouched. The OL also struggled to open up holes for the running backs. Mack would not have faired any better.

The biggest disappointment to me was the defense. The defensive line was a non-factor the entire game. We played soft coverage and WKU ate us up on 5-8 yard passes most of the game. I was hoping they were starting to turn a corner, but they really played poorly.

Also, penalties are killing us. There was certainly no moral victory to take from that game.

It's clear now that X's and O's coaching was not the issue in 2019. Hopefully Rahne's recruiting efforts don't fall on deaf ears when recruits see that we are getting blown out at halftime to teams with losing records.

Without Mack.l, you cant leave a defender unblocked. Its essentially losing a blocker upfront. The OL didnt do worse in run blocking, there were at a disadvantage vs when Mack is at QB.

Making plays through the air is good but having a consistent running game and converting drives to points is important.

The defense played well enough to win. That was a pretty impressive performance vs a team that is one of the top offenses in the country.

(10-18-2021 09:05 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I am kind of torn on how successful/detrimental the QB change was. As I had pointed out in a couple previous posts, it was clear to me that the offense was getting better at executing with Mack at QB, only problem, Mack was so ineffective that it didn't matter much that everyone else was executing the system pretty well. Now comes Wolff, and the system is upended and execution was not good for any piece of the offensive unit, but we did see 300+ yards passing and as 78 pointed out we saw a very respectable yards per carry number. So, statistically the offense seemed better, but in results the offense was not better. The question to me is if we stick with Wolff does the execution of an entirely new approach improve and leave us with a serviceable offense a couple weeks down the road, or does it set us back because we stop improving with the system that was run under Mack, which is what this offense looks like long term. Its a tough call.

Very good points. That is how I feel as well.

And its tough to gauge how much the offense is improved just by playing bad defenses.

(10-18-2021 09:45 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:51 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We’re getting beat by teams with a plethora of 4th year, 5th yr, and even 6th year players.

You guys are asking a lot from a team with~25% first year players and another ~25% 2nd year players who had no college game day experience before Sep 3rd.

Rahne had two years to recruit transfers. We also didn't retain some talented upperclassmen. This is a problem of our own making. The only thing I'm willing to concede is that COVID made recruiting more challenging, but that was across the board for all teams. It was an even playing field.

Taking on a bunch of transfers may have got us a little better in the short term and worse long term. This team has to be selective in taking transfers and are trying to balance the classes. You cant have 70 seniors

(10-18-2021 10:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:36 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-17-2021 10:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  For me, this was disappointing, not because we lost, but because we were more sluggish offensively than we should have been vs a less than stellar defense facing a QB style they were not expecting, especially at home. Except for Hampton, the Hilltoppers were the weakest defense we have seen all season.
Indeed their 5 sacks and 2 interceptions in the one game against us equalled their totals for entire season.

Mack may not be the answer, but certainly HW is not. He has an accurate arm, but he is very slow of foot, seems to be slow on his reads and progressions. Additionally, he could have run for positive yardage with a slide on a number of critical plays, and was sacked 5 times, so I am not sure about his instincts or pocket awareness.
He is, pure and simple, a pocket passer, without any of the lateral ability of a Heinicke, Washington, or LaRussa.
Our offense is by necessity, designed to run. We are not particularly good at pass blocking, as our OL is a bit slow. We CAN run block, however.

Until we have an OL with the quickness to truly pass block, and receivers who can get seperation, a one dimensional pocket passer will not fit our system or personnel.

Hayden Wolff may get better as the season progresses, and I feverently hope so, but we have been awfully close with Mack. I am afraid that once opponents see film, they will be able to pressure HW and exploit his slow feet and reads, and our OL. Remember, WKU was not prepared for him.

I disagree. I think we were much more explosive on offense than I've seen all season. Jennings hasn't looked this good all season. Kuntz had a fantastic game as well. Both have been stymied by terrible QB play.

The offensive line had their worst game of the season. Most of the sacks were not coverage sacks. The DL came through untouched. The OL also struggled to open up holes for the running backs. Mack would not have faired any better.

The biggest disappointment to me was the defense. The defensive line was a non-factor the entire game. We played soft coverage and WKU ate us up on 5-8 yard passes most of the game. I was hoping they were starting to turn a corner, but they really played poorly.

Also, penalties are killing us. There was certainly no moral victory to take from that game.

It's clear now that X's and O's coaching was not the issue in 2019. Hopefully Rahne's recruiting efforts don't fall on deaf ears when recruits see that we are getting blown out at halftime to teams with losing records.

Without Mack.l, you cant leave a defender unblocked. Its essentially losing a blocker upfront. The OL didnt do worse in run blocking, there were at a disadvantage vs when Mack is at QB.

Making plays through the air is good but having a consistent running game and converting drives to points is important.

The defense played well enough to win. That was a pretty impressive performance vs a team that is one of the top offenses in the country.

The D played well enough to win? Impressive performance? Because they took their foot off the gas a little with a 4 TD lead? WKU QB had over 300 yards and 4 TD passes IN THE 1ST HALF. What game were you watching?

(10-18-2021 09:58 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 09:45 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:51 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We’re getting beat by teams with a plethora of 4th year, 5th yr, and even 6th year players.

You guys are asking a lot from a team with~25% first year players and another ~25% 2nd year players who had no college game day experience before Sep 3rd.

Rahne had two years to recruit transfers. We also didn't retain some talented upperclassmen. This is a problem of our own making. The only thing I'm willing to concede is that COVID made recruiting more challenging, but that was across the board for all teams. It was an even playing field.

This is only a problem if we aren't good 3 years from now. Plugging a bunch of holes with band aids is not necessarily the best way to build your program for the long term. Personally, I would rather take some lumps while building a strong foundation.

I don't disagree, but creating a culture of winning is important too.

(10-18-2021 10:54 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 09:05 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I am kind of torn on how successful/detrimental the QB change was. As I had pointed out in a couple previous posts, it was clear to me that the offense was getting better at executing with Mack at QB, only problem, Mack was so ineffective that it didn't matter much that everyone else was executing the system pretty well. Now comes Wolff, and the system is upended and execution was not good for any piece of the offensive unit, but we did see 300+ yards passing and as 78 pointed out we saw a very respectable yards per carry number. So, statistically the offense seemed better, but in results the offense was not better. The question to me is if we stick with Wolff does the execution of an entirely new approach improve and leave us with a serviceable offense a couple weeks down the road, or does it set us back because we stop improving with the system that was run under Mack, which is what this offense looks like long term. Its a tough call.

Very good points. That is how I feel as well.

And its tough to gauge how much the offense is improved just by playing bad defenses.

This is how I feel also. It felt like the offense was moving the ball but not finishing drives. There was little room for error and a dropped pass, sack, or a holding penalty would be drive killers. But just as Mack was allotted a few games to show what he can do, I feel like we need to give Wolff the same leeway. I’m not sure Rahne is married to any type of offense long term. What he is doing now may not even be the offense he prefers, but it fits the players we have now.

Rahne is probably married to TE usage- (former TE coach, former penn state guy, and kuntz is our best player), but after that it's probably up in the air.

(10-18-2021 01:39 PM)ODU-Z8 Wrote:  Rahne is probably married to TE usage- (former TE coach, former penn state guy, and kuntz is our best player), but after that it's probably up in the air.

I'd imagine he just wants a QB that can win games, regardless of the style. If we keep swinging and missing there, any progress we make elsewhere is moot. You aren't going to win many games 10-6 in this era.

(10-18-2021 01:53 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:39 PM)ODU-Z8 Wrote:  Rahne is probably married to TE usage- (former TE coach, former penn state guy, and kuntz is our best player), but after that it's probably up in the air.

I'd imagine he just wants a QB that can win games, regardless of the style. If we keep swinging and missing there, any progress we make elsewhere is moot. You aren't going to win many games 10-6 in this era.

Agree. But I don’t think either of these QBs are our long term guy. So go with the one that will win some games now. I don’t think that will affect anything beyond this year.

(10-18-2021 02:02 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:53 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 01:39 PM)ODU-Z8 Wrote:  Rahne is probably married to TE usage- (former TE coach, former penn state guy, and kuntz is our best player), but after that it's probably up in the air.

I'd imagine he just wants a QB that can win games, regardless of the style. If we keep swinging and missing there, any progress we make elsewhere is moot. You aren't going to win many games 10-6 in this era.

Agree. But I don’t think either of these QBs are our long term guy. So go with the one that will win some games now. I don’t think that will affect anything beyond this year.

I tend to agree with that assessment. I would guess we will either get a stellar transfer or start a Freshman. Unless of course, Wolff goes on a tear and wins two or three and learns how to move a little over the summer.

(10-18-2021 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 10:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:36 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-17-2021 10:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  For me, this was disappointing, not because we lost, but because we were more sluggish offensively than we should have been vs a less than stellar defense facing a QB style they were not expecting, especially at home. Except for Hampton, the Hilltoppers were the weakest defense we have seen all season.
Indeed their 5 sacks and 2 interceptions in the one game against us equalled their totals for entire season.

Mack may not be the answer, but certainly HW is not. He has an accurate arm, but he is very slow of foot, seems to be slow on his reads and progressions. Additionally, he could have run for positive yardage with a slide on a number of critical plays, and was sacked 5 times, so I am not sure about his instincts or pocket awareness.
He is, pure and simple, a pocket passer, without any of the lateral ability of a Heinicke, Washington, or LaRussa.
Our offense is by necessity, designed to run. We are not particularly good at pass blocking, as our OL is a bit slow. We CAN run block, however.

Until we have an OL with the quickness to truly pass block, and receivers who can get seperation, a one dimensional pocket passer will not fit our system or personnel.

Hayden Wolff may get better as the season progresses, and I feverently hope so, but we have been awfully close with Mack. I am afraid that once opponents see film, they will be able to pressure HW and exploit his slow feet and reads, and our OL. Remember, WKU was not prepared for him.

I disagree. I think we were much more explosive on offense than I've seen all season. Jennings hasn't looked this good all season. Kuntz had a fantastic game as well. Both have been stymied by terrible QB play.

The offensive line had their worst game of the season. Most of the sacks were not coverage sacks. The DL came through untouched. The OL also struggled to open up holes for the running backs. Mack would not have faired any better.

The biggest disappointment to me was the defense. The defensive line was a non-factor the entire game. We played soft coverage and WKU ate us up on 5-8 yard passes most of the game. I was hoping they were starting to turn a corner, but they really played poorly.

Also, penalties are killing us. There was certainly no moral victory to take from that game.

It's clear now that X's and O's coaching was not the issue in 2019. Hopefully Rahne's recruiting efforts don't fall on deaf ears when recruits see that we are getting blown out at halftime to teams with losing records.

Without Mack.l, you cant leave a defender unblocked. Its essentially losing a blocker upfront. The OL didnt do worse in run blocking, there were at a disadvantage vs when Mack is at QB.

Making plays through the air is good but having a consistent running game and converting drives to points is important.

The defense played well enough to win. That was a pretty impressive performance vs a team that is one of the top offenses in the country.

The D played well enough to win? Impressive performance? Because they took their foot off the gas a little with a 4 TD lead? WKU QB had over 300 yards and 4 TD passes IN THE 1ST HALF. What game were you watching?

59 points, 587 yards, 9.6 ypp UT Martin
35 points, 477 yards, 5.8 ypp (army) 54th ranked defense
31 points, 458 yards, 7.2 ypp (Indiana) 30th ranked defense
31 points, 560 yards, 6.2 ypp (Mich State) 22nd ranked defense
46 points, 670 yards, 7.5 ypp (UTSA) 70th ranked defense
43 points, 518 yards, 6.4 ypp (ODU)

Look what ODU did as opposed to other good defenses vs. WKY. 43 points that were also contributed by ineptness of the offense and special teams. They had a 41 yard TD drive, a minus 9 yard FG drive, a 42 yard FG drive, and a 23 yard TD drive.

Because of the lack of ball control by the offense, WKY had 8 drives in the first half and were able to throw the ball like 30 times. Considering the circumstans, 3 points per drive by WKy is a winnable game with competent offense.

(10-18-2021 04:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 10:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(10-18-2021 07:36 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(10-17-2021 10:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  For me, this was disappointing, not because we lost, but because we were more sluggish offensively than we should have been vs a less than stellar defense facing a QB style they were not expecting, especially at home. Except for Hampton, the Hilltoppers were the weakest defense we have seen all season.
Indeed their 5 sacks and 2 interceptions in the one game against us equalled their totals for entire season.

Mack may not be the answer, but certainly HW is not. He has an accurate arm, but he is very slow of foot, seems to be slow on his reads and progressions. Additionally, he could have run for positive yardage with a slide on a number of critical plays, and was sacked 5 times, so I am not sure about his instincts or pocket awareness.
He is, pure and simple, a pocket passer, without any of the lateral ability of a Heinicke, Washington, or LaRussa.
Our offense is by necessity, designed to run. We are not particularly good at pass blocking, as our OL is a bit slow. We CAN run block, however.

Until we have an OL with the quickness to truly pass block, and receivers who can get seperation, a one dimensional pocket passer will not fit our system or personnel.

Hayden Wolff may get better as the season progresses, and I feverently hope so, but we have been awfully close with Mack. I am afraid that once opponents see film, they will be able to pressure HW and exploit his slow feet and reads, and our OL. Remember, WKU was not prepared for him.

I disagree. I think we were much more explosive on offense than I've seen all season. Jennings hasn't looked this good all season. Kuntz had a fantastic game as well. Both have been stymied by terrible QB play.

The offensive line had their worst game of the season. Most of the sacks were not coverage sacks. The DL came through untouched. The OL also struggled to open up holes for the running backs. Mack would not have faired any better.

The biggest disappointment to me was the defense. The defensive line was a non-factor the entire game. We played soft coverage and WKU ate us up on 5-8 yard passes most of the game. I was hoping they were starting to turn a corner, but they really played poorly.

Also, penalties are killing us. There was certainly no moral victory to take from that game.

It's clear now that X's and O's coaching was not the issue in 2019. Hopefully Rahne's recruiting efforts don't fall on deaf ears when recruits see that we are getting blown out at halftime to teams with losing records.

Without Mack.l, you cant leave a defender unblocked. Its essentially losing a blocker upfront. The OL didnt do worse in run blocking, there were at a disadvantage vs when Mack is at QB.

Making plays through the air is good but having a consistent running game and converting drives to points is important.

The defense played well enough to win. That was a pretty impressive performance vs a team that is one of the top offenses in the country.

The D played well enough to win? Impressive performance? Because they took their foot off the gas a little with a 4 TD lead? WKU QB had over 300 yards and 4 TD passes IN THE 1ST HALF. What game were you watching?

59 points, 587 yards, 9.6 ypp UT Martin
35 points, 477 yards, 5.8 ypp (army) 54th ranked defense
31 points, 458 yards, 7.2 ypp (Indiana) 30th ranked defense
31 points, 560 yards, 6.2 ypp (Mich State) 22nd ranked defense
46 points, 670 yards, 7.5 ypp (UTSA) 70th ranked defense
43 points, 518 yards, 6.4 ypp (ODU)

Look what ODU did as opposed to other good defenses vs. WKY. 43 points that were also contributed by ineptness of the offense and special teams. They had a 41 yard TD drive, a minus 9 yard FG drive, a 42 yard FG drive, and a 23 yard TD drive.

Because of the lack of ball control by the offense, WKY had 8 drives in the first half and were able to throw the ball like 30 times. Considering the circumstans, 3 points per drive by WKy is a winnable game with competent offense.

Agree.

I attended the Marshall game. It was certainly winnable. However, the offense didn’t do anything in the second half. I believe this poor half finally convinced Coach RR to change QB’s. With any amount of offense that day, we win.
After that game, I was convinced we had turned the corner, at least was getting close. Especially from a defense standpoint. I truly thought we would win Saturday with a ‘Marshall’ effort.
Holy cow, I was wrong. What a cluster****. I think we definitely digressed after showing progress the prior 3 games. Way too many mistakes to win. Agree with others, the O Line seems built for rushing success. Just because HW is a passing QB, why did we, in essence, abandon the running game? I didn’t understand, except to try to jumpstart a stagnant passing game. Well, it didn’t give us any more points and no better chance of winning.
And the refs were minor or even little league. Just some horrible calls. How do you confirm a fumble when you don’t take time to review the replay?
Extremely disappointing

The running game had a couple big runs once we were 2-3 scores behind but seemed to be really bottled up early. They just crashed knowing Wolff wouldnt pull it.

Zappe looking like the next Tom Brady right now leading NE over Green Bay.