(10-11-2021 04:48 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 09:59 AM)TrentonSy Wrote:  And put their other sports back into the Atlantic 10. It's been an interesting experiment but I think it is time for Temple to follow UConn in giving up their football dream and focusing on basketball. If the CAA would accept them, they would have regional rivals like Delaware and JMU. It could make for some fun football games. They would already be a middle of the pack team in the CAA right now instead of having to lose by 50 to Rutgers and Cinci. They would also reunite with A10 basketball rivals. This setup seems overdue in my opinion.

UMass should join the new big east. That's really what I think the next NE move will be because the NBE has tiny fanbases a it will have a content and viewership problem when its deal runs out. Besides, I'm pretty certain the pro rata that UConn got would extend to UMass as well.

After watching the UConn-UMass fun this last week, it seems like those teams are a pair.

"the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

St. John’s might not have a lot of diehards, but they definitely bring a lot of fair weather NYC fans when they’re good.

UConn is back and is a large state school with like 32k students.

I don’t know much about Providence and Seton Hall, but PC seems to have a strong local following and SHU is now the only show in town.

I think Villanova is doing just fine.

Temple is just fine where they are. Improvements that would help would their travel costs would be some eastern replacements like Marshall, UMass, or JMU for all sports; and the addition of a couple of Olympic programs from the A-10 like VCU, Richmond, Rhode Island, Dayton, or one of the A-10 schools around Washington DC. They should also keep a good rotation of Rutgers, Maryland, Army, Villanova, UConn, and UMass (if not invited for all sports) running through their OOC all sports schedules as well as continuing with the annual Big-5 BB Challenge in Philadelphia.

(10-11-2021 09:59 AM)TrentonSy Wrote:  And put their other sports back into the Atlantic 10. It's been an interesting experiment but I think it is time for Temple to follow UConn in giving up their football dream and focusing on basketball. If the CAA would accept them, they would have regional rivals like Delaware and JMU. It could make for some fun football games. They would already be a middle of the pack team in the CAA right now instead of having to lose by 50 to Rutgers and Cinci. They would also reunite with A10 basketball rivals. This setup seems overdue in my opinion.

The Big East should play all of its games in Mongolia. It could lock up the early AM market in the US that way.

Any other moronic trolling you’d like to share?

(10-12-2021 07:08 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

St. John’s might not have a lot of diehards, but they definitely bring a lot of fair weather NYC fans when they’re good.

UConn is back and is a large state school with like 32k students.

I don’t know much about Providence and Seton Hall, but PC seems to have a strong local following and SHU is now the only show in town.

I think Villanova is doing just fine.

The BIG EAST is a top-5 conference in attendance averaging 10k fans, well above 6th (PAC 7k). The BIG EAST also usually has the highest attended conference tournament.

"the NBE has tiny fanbases" is a load of nonsense.

(10-11-2021 09:22 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 04:48 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  UMass should join the new big east. That's really what I think the next NE move will be because the NBE has tiny fanbases a it will have a content and viewership problem when its deal runs out. Besides, I'm pretty certain the pro rata that UConn got would extend to UMass as well.

After watching the UConn-UMass fun this last week, it seems like those teams are a pair.

The NBE thinks you need to be good at basketball to be invited.

If their standards are too high for Dayton to meet, then UMass has no chance.

I think there's a bit more to it than just basketball for Dayton there.


But yeah UMass is not ever going to be invited to the Big East. Not just because of where we currently stand in the basketball hierarchy, but because we're a large state school that doesn't have a preexisting and long history with the conference itself.


Also Temple isn't leaving the AAC to play UMass and GW in basketball lol.

(10-12-2021 08:27 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 07:08 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

St. John’s might not have a lot of diehards, but they definitely bring a lot of fair weather NYC fans when they’re good.

UConn is back and is a large state school with like 32k students.

I don’t know much about Providence and Seton Hall, but PC seems to have a strong local following and SHU is now the only show in town.

I think Villanova is doing just fine.

The BIG EAST is a top-5 conference in attendance averaging 10k fans, well above 6th (PAC 7k). The BIG EAST also usually has the highest attended conference tournament.

"the NBE has tiny fanbases" is a load of nonsense.

"Tiny" is a relative term. Yes, those schools pack their basketball gymnasiums and arena, but keep in mind that with the exception of UConn, all those schools don't have FBS football and exceptional women's hoops to divert interest away. This means their basketball games are basically the biggest events at those universities all year long. They should be packing the stands.

Xavier, for example, is not a big school. They have 76,000 living alumni. They get 10K to their basketball arena, but truth be told there are probably no more than 100,000 people nationwide who care about XU sports. Butler, has 50,000 grads. Again, 100,000 people tops would consider themselves Butler fans-- especially now they aren't considered the loveable underdog. Most of these schools do not have a huge t-shirt following like other smaller private institutions like TCU, Baylor, Duke, the University of Miami, etc.

In the grand scheme of things I would describe their fanbases as tiny compared to a lot of other schools.

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

"Relatively small fanbases" do not not necessarily mean "tiny fan bases." Big East men's hoops attendance is typically top five in the nation. In fact, many would argue the BE schools "punch above their weight" for attendance. Clearly, no Big East school has the fan base of, say, Florida or Penn State. I understand that. But your oddly framed anti-BE posts continue to reveal a huge bias. It's hard to take you seriously because of that.

(10-12-2021 07:08 AM)esayem Wrote:  Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

A lot of alumni, but necessarily not a lot of connections.

Of those 20K students, 14K of them are graduate or professional students, so their exposure to athletics teams is very limited. Only 3% of students come from Washington, and only a third settle in the area. Perhaps as a result, the Georgetown fan base has contracted significantly over the last 8-10 years as most Big East fans will attest.

(10-12-2021 07:08 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

St. John’s might not have a lot of diehards, but they definitely bring a lot of fair weather NYC fans when they’re good.

UConn is back and is a large state school with like 32k students.

I don’t know much about Providence and Seton Hall, but PC seems to have a strong local following and SHU is now the only show in town.

I think Villanova is doing just fine.

The problem with Georgetown is they play in a stadium that has a capacity of less than 5,000 after finally completing construction on it. (I believe it’s completed, anyway.)

As for Villanova, if I remember correctly, they were in talks with the football side of the old Big East to move up and join them while they (the old Big East) were still an AQ league in the BCS. The only reason they were ultimately passed up in favor of re-inviting Temple had to do with their reluctance to secure a stadium that met FBS-attendance requirements. If ‘Nova had expanded their stadium to 30K or more, they’d be an FBS school and it’s possible the Big East would still sponsor football. (But of course, we know what happened.)

(10-12-2021 08:27 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 07:08 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-12-2021 02:32 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 11:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  "the NBE has tiny fanbases" ...

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From a Marquette writer.

"The “newness” of FOX Sports 1 and the relative small fanbases of the 10 Big East schools have combined to draw middling to weak ratings the past two years. However, this was expected by both conference officials and network head honchos. (And this blogger, as well.) There are no giant state schools with enough alumni to colonize a small moon."

https://painttouches.com/2015/09/11/does...onference/

Do you seriously believe those schools grew bigger fanbases, since going from playing Syracuse to playing Butler instead?

Georgetown has like 20k students, and that means a lot of alumni.

St. John’s might not have a lot of diehards, but they definitely bring a lot of fair weather NYC fans when they’re good.

UConn is back and is a large state school with like 32k students.

I don’t know much about Providence and Seton Hall, but PC seems to have a strong local following and SHU is now the only show in town.

I think Villanova is doing just fine.

The BIG EAST is a top-5 conference in attendance averaging 10k fans, well above 6th (PAC 7k). The BIG EAST also usually has the highest attended conference tournament.

"the NBE has tiny fanbases" is a load of nonsense.

Agreed. In 2019, the Big East was actually the #4 attendance conference ahead of both the Big 12 and Pac-12:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

The Big East also has two of the top 10 attendance schools with Marquette and Creighton. The "small fan base" charge is pretty ridiculous, particularly coming from someone that is supposedly a BC fan and quoting a fan post from freaking 2015 (which might as well be 1915 when it comes to how the Big East is perceived today).

I've said this before: what the Catholic 7 were able to do with rebuilding the Big East was the most impressive feat in conference realignment since 2010 because its success was NOT guaranteed. To the contrary, much of the talk was that football was all that mattered, these were small schools peddling a less valuable basketball product, ESPN even created a documentary called "Requiem for the Big East", etc. This wasn't like the Big Ten or SEC that had so much revenue coming in that they're effectively too big fail.

Yet, despite the football-focused landscape, the Big East made more TV money than any G5 league for *just* basketball for many years. In fact, the 80/20 football/basketball revenue split as a guideline for conferences, the Big East has been making a P5-level of basketball revenue. That's frankly amazing considering how the old Big East was blown up in realignment and it's a testament to how institutional fit and knowing thyself (where the Big East knows who they are as basketball schools in urban markets and they're not pining for unachievable football goals) makes for a stronger conference.

(10-12-2021 11:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Agreed. In 2019, the Big East was actually the #4 attendance conference ahead of both the Big 12 and Pac-12:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

As was said before...

Gate receipts are a small consideration of fanbase size.

Fanbase size has more to do with institutional profile.

(10-12-2021 11:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  quoting a fan post from freaking 2015 (which might as well be 1915 when it comes to how the Big East is perceived today).

That was a Marquette sportswriter. He has no agenda.

As for the date of publication, none of those schools grew significantly since then. They are still restricted by the same institutional profiles.

NFL players:

Temple- 21
Nebraska- 21
Ole Miss- 20
TCU- 19
Kentucky- 18
VT- 18
UCF- 17
UNC- 17
BC- 16
MSU- 16
OK State- 16
Pitt- 16
Boise- 14
Maryland- 14
Rutgers- 14
Houston- 13
SMU- 13
Virginia- 13
WVU- 13
NC State- 12
Louisville- 11
Cincy- 10
Memphis- 9
Cuse- 9

We have more NFL players than every regional CFB program other than Penn State. We need to get our **** together, but we aren't dropping to FCS or dropping football.

(10-12-2021 08:27 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  ... The BIG EAST is a top-5 conference in attendance averaging 10k fans, well above 6th (PAC 7k). The BIG EAST also usually has the highest attended conference tournament.

"the NBE has tiny fanbases" is a load of nonsense.

The quote says "relatively" ... which raises the question, relative to what? Relative to the Big Ten or Big Twelve, sure, even if "tiny" may be laying it on a little thick.

Relative to any of the Go5 conferences on average? No, they aren't.

(10-11-2021 04:23 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I've said it like a half dozen times, but I'll say it again: Follow the Money.

The AAC has a TV deal that's like $7.5 million AAV to Temple as part of the American. It might go down if ESPN has clauses in it.
The AAC basketball-only share and the A-10 media share are about the same: $1.25 to $1.5 million per school range. I think the A-10 is slightly less, but they have five separate deals, while the AAC has one deal.

But the CAA TV deal for football is what? Like, cost of production? So re-joining the A-10 means Temple loses up to $6 million.

Temple COULD make some of that back by going from FBS to FCS (Saving 22 scholarships, which would be like, $500,000 a year) and the A-10 NCAA payout is more lucrative if you earn the units yourself.

But the difference in AAC NCAA unit payout vs A-10, IF TEMPLE performed the way they did for their last 20 years in the A-10 on average... They'd be earning 1.72 more NCAA units worth per year in the A-10 structure.

Which is about $700,000 more. So they're losing $4.75 million vs staying the American.

It's likely the AAC payment goes down, but it's also likely they can't regain the performance they had in the A-10 because the world has changed and they don't have a Hall of Fame coach like John Chaney anymore. And that's probably a wash.


Then factor in the whole reason your FBS in the first place is the exposure you get from being FBS and they're in the #6 FBS conference right now.

Being in the best conference possible is always the goal, even if you suck in that conference. Just ask Northwestern and Vanderbilt, and how long as the A-10 fans been trying to get rid of Fordham and LaSalle?


Temple ain't going back.

You can't focus on revenue without balancing it with costs. Temple football loses money. Also, being a full member means a lot of travel costs for each of their sports teams. Temple has cut a bunch of their sports but it is still expensive flying teams all over the place when the A10 and CAA are mostly bus rides. They also pay a couple million to rent the Eagles stadium when they normally only fill it to 30 or 40 percent capacity. They get Penn State and Notre Dame to come sometimes because they have a lot of fans in Philadelphia but that hasn't been happening recently and probably doesn't really help much. FCS can play them on the road (Villanova played at PSU this year and was more competitive than Temple was against Cinci or Rutgers). CAA teams have won a good number of games against FBS teams too.

Temple needs to seriously consider a move now that UConn is gone and Cinci, and UCF are leaving. People calling this a troll thread are way off. This is a topic that has been discussed in Philly for years.

https://news.temple.edu/news/2013-12-06/...orts-24-17

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/...10914.html

Mike Jensen is a Villanova and Penn State troll who would love nothing more than for Temple to drop athletics entirely. Nothing he writes is worth the toilet paper it's printed on.

Temple has the second largest attendance growth in the country over the last decade behind Mississippi State. 2019 saw us average almost 30K per game with no help from Penn State, Rutgers, Notre Dame, etc. With normal progression and growth, and any semblance of sustained success, we will start to regularly fill half the Linc in the next few years. We're not getting 35K per game playing an FCS schedule, even if the teams are all local.

EDIT: Ok, so my numbers were off. I think it was to 2018, not 2019, but still, 2009-2019 illustrates how much our program has grown and why any suggestion of us dropping down is foolish.

Texas A&M
2009: 76,800
2019: 101,608 +24,808

Louisville
2009: 32,450
2019: 49,913 +17,463

Iowa State
2009: 46,242
2019: 59,794 +13,552

Memphis
2009: 25,792
2019: 38,816 +13,024

Temple
2009: 17,379
2019: 29,460 +12,081

Louisville and Memphis are both pretty solid comps for our program too. 38K-42K is definitely achievable for Temple football.

(10-12-2021 01:06 PM)TrentonSy Wrote:  

(10-11-2021 04:23 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I've said it like a half dozen times, but I'll say it again: Follow the Money.

The AAC has a TV deal that's like $7.5 million AAV to Temple as part of the American. It might go down if ESPN has clauses in it.
The AAC basketball-only share and the A-10 media share are about the same: $1.25 to $1.5 million per school range. I think the A-10 is slightly less, but they have five separate deals, while the AAC has one deal.

But the CAA TV deal for football is what? Like, cost of production? So re-joining the A-10 means Temple loses up to $6 million.

Temple COULD make some of that back by going from FBS to FCS (Saving 22 scholarships, which would be like, $500,000 a year) and the A-10 NCAA payout is more lucrative if you earn the units yourself.

But the difference in AAC NCAA unit payout vs A-10, IF TEMPLE performed the way they did for their last 20 years in the A-10 on average... They'd be earning 1.72 more NCAA units worth per year in the A-10 structure.

Which is about $700,000 more. So they're losing $4.75 million vs staying the American.

It's likely the AAC payment goes down, but it's also likely they can't regain the performance they had in the A-10 because the world has changed and they don't have a Hall of Fame coach like John Chaney anymore. And that's probably a wash.


Then factor in the whole reason your FBS in the first place is the exposure you get from being FBS and they're in the #6 FBS conference right now.

Being in the best conference possible is always the goal, even if you suck in that conference. Just ask Northwestern and Vanderbilt, and how long as the A-10 fans been trying to get rid of Fordham and LaSalle?


Temple ain't going back.

You can't focus on revenue without balancing it with costs. Temple football loses money. Also, being a full member means a lot of travel costs for each of their sports teams. Temple has cut a bunch of their sports but it is still expensive flying teams all over the place when the A10 and CAA are mostly bus rides. They also pay a couple million to rent the Eagles stadium when they normally only fill it to 30 or 40 percent capacity. They get Penn State and Notre Dame to come sometimes because they have a lot of fans in Philadelphia but that hasn't been happening recently and probably doesn't really help much. FCS can play them on the road (Villanova played at PSU this year and was more competitive than Temple was against Cinci or Rutgers). CAA teams have won a good number of games against FBS teams too.

Temple needs to seriously consider a move now that UConn is gone and Cinci, and UCF are leaving. People calling this a troll thread are way off. This is a topic that has been discussed in Philly for years.

https://news.temple.edu/news/2013-12-06/...orts-24-17

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/...10914.html

Temple plays in an off campus NFL stadium. The discussion of FCS ends there. The topic been discussed by next to no one in the public and by no one at Temple. Jensen trolls Temple fans for clicks.

Now that I think about it Jensen had a recent article with a quote from a former Temple administrator who stated that that FCS and independence are not ever going to be options.

(10-12-2021 11:49 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  NFL players:

Temple- 21
Nebraska- 21
Ole Miss- 20
TCU- 19
Kentucky- 18
VT- 18
UCF- 17
UNC- 17
BC- 16
MSU- 16
OK State- 16
Pitt- 16
Boise- 14
Maryland- 14
Rutgers- 14
Houston- 13
SMU- 13
Virginia- 13
WVU- 13
NC State- 12
Louisville- 11
Cincy- 10
Memphis- 9
Cuse- 9

We have more NFL players than every regional CFB program other than Penn State. We need to get our **** together, but we aren't dropping to FCS or dropping football.

That is strong. This Memphis fan is highly pleased to have Temple as an AAC member.